Liontamer Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 --In the event this makes it onto OCR, please don't post it until the Radical Dreamers project is complete.-- Contact Info Your ReMixer name: Abadoss Your real name: Kenneth Edward Keyn Your email address: Abadoss@yahoo.com Your website: http://www.warnerpacific.edu/personal/kkeyn/ Your userid (number, not name) on our forums: 1901 ReMix Info Name of game(s) ReMixed: Radical Dreamers Name of individual song(s) ReMixed: Frozen Flame Link: Additional information: For me, "Frozen Flame" always seemed out of place in the Radical Dreamers soundtrack. It's not by much, but it seemed to be of a different stock than the other pieces. Perhaps it has something to do with the waltz feel or something else. I'm not entirely sure the reasons behind the difference are all musical. Anyway, I joined the Radical Dreamers project some time in February 2007. Seeing as how I was somewhat of a late-comer, I didn't have a whole lot to pick from, but, to my relief, Frozen Flame was among them. Thus my journey began. I set out to work transcribing the piece in its original form so I could study it and see what made it tick. I then tried various re-orchestrations to hear what certain parts would sound like on different instruments. I then played around with a few musical forms before settling on something a little latin jazzier. I build the arrangement, getting feedback from the other members of the project along the way. With the exception of the style and nuances, it's fairly straight forward. My personal favorite section is circa 1:42. Oh, and yes, I know about the flute's vibrato. Unfortunately, Garritan Personal Orchestra's flute has two settings: vibrato and no vibrato. Please know that I picked the better of the two. That said, I used Finale 2007, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Garritan Jazz and Big Band, and Audacity to create this piece. The name is rather unimaginative, as it's spanish for "Cold Fire". LT EDIT (10/13): Hey Ken,I'm coming up empty trying to make the source connections in "Fuego Frío" to "Frozen Flame". Aside from the chorus first done at 1:01, the verses I'm just not picking up the connections. The waltz rhythm may be throwing me off, but melodically I'm not hearing it. Can you break it down for me? Any help from you is appreciated! For most of the piece, the melody is carried by the flute. However, it's been modified rhymically - i.e. augmentation and diminution. Hope that helps. I'm screwed. ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=rd - "Frozen Flame" (rd-10.spc) Good source selection. I was only particularly familiar with the very beginning of the theme myself. Hey, "Portal to Open Grounds" is pretty interesting too! But back on course... The overall feel is definitely a departure from the original. Not sure how it felt straightforward, but I only got the connection to the source once the arrangement reached 1:01, though from about :42 things sounded similar. I'll have to familiarize myself more with the source and get back to this one. EDIT (10/20): I'm finally clear that Ken used the entire verse (starting at :07) from the source before moving onto the chorus, funking around with the rhythms and progression of the verse moreso than the chorus. After counting the notes in each section of the verse (glad I'm very familiar with this theme) and following the melody here, I was able to more easily decipher the interpretation from :07-:27 covering :00-:14 of the source. There was a little more, but I'm good. :41-1:24 arranged the chorus very nicely before shifting to another iteration of the verse from 1:24-1:57, and back into the chorus at 1:58. Great changes at from 1:37-2:00 compared to the first go around. The second chorus felt too retread-ish and could have used some other ideas. The ending at 2:48 was too cheesy for my taste, and the last few seconds (2:44-2:49) felt like the samples were on the exposed side, which made that string run finish sound very weak; clearly not the intent. Overall though, I FINALLY got where the verses were coming from, and I can lay this one to rest. Though I wish the choruses had more pronounced variation from first to second, the differences in the verses were good. Can't help but feel that the arrangement was still underdeveloped on account of the second chorus, as there was a lot more potential to exploit for that section and with more material afterwards. So a little underwhelming on that level when I take a step back. Still, the the whole arrangement was pretty interpretive at its core. Definitely enough substance here from my vantage point to get the duke. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Sequencing is really mechanical. You really need to work on your producing skills man. I realize you're an arranger/composer first and foremost (and you're not a bad one), but I think you rely far too much on letting your sampler do your work for you when it comes to actually producing the music in waveform. If you'd handed out the sheet music to a bunch of musicians, this would have really been great, but right now it sounds like it's from a PC RPG for Windows 95. You have to do far more than just write out the parts. You're not just the arranger here, you're the performer too; you have to make this stuff sound believable. Humanization is so important, especially with music like this. As far as the arrangement itself, it's fine, though I think on the second go around it could use way more variation. It sounds a lot like BGM right now. It could use more dynamic contrast. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I agree with Darke on both counts, that the sequencing is a bit too mechanical, and that there is something of a lack in dynamics. Right off the bat you've got lots of string sustains, the same rhythms over and over, and a 'wash' of a texture overall. The different parts tend to be rather homogenous, rhythmically. I would have liked to hear interesting things happening in the different voices, rather than most of the instruments simply playing out chords for the lead(s). For example, there's not much of a bass presence - why not use a double bass pizzicato or staccato doubled by piano and/or tuba/french horn? There's all sorts of stuff that you could do. I think part of what makes this sound not as realistic as it could is in fact the way its orchestrated, not just the sample usage. More dynamics overall and more interesting part-writing would REALLY help. As is, while I like the interpretation of the theme, as a standalone musical piece I don't feel like it is really passable - it does sound too much like BGM. Some additional work on the material you have *now* to make it more exciting and varied on a part-by-part basis would definitely help put this above our bar. NO, RESUBMIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Excellent source tune. I really love SNES music. Really I do. Anyway. I'll second Andy's second. You're definitely a more-than-adequate arranger, I'd even go so far as to say you're a pretty talented arranger. But you do need to work on you humanization when dealing with these here fancy-pantsy math machines (uh, computers ). One reason I don't attempt many purely orchestral pieces is simply because of the amount of work they require. Not so much in partwriting, but in making the instruments sound convincing and (as) realistic (as possible). The slowdowns at 1:10 and 2:28 bring the worst out in the overly-mechanical feel my colleagues have already mentioned. Then, with the lack of dynamic contrast from really any of the instruments, it does loose all power in the delivery. (Not to mention the lack of low-end for that nice, full effect when it's needed.) Well man. This is decent work. It just really needs those refining touches. There's no easy way I know of to get them. It's a tedious process, but it must be done. You're stuff could really be pushed above and beyond with the extra effort. I had no gripes with the arrangement. It's all in the execution. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vig Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I can't really say anything new. I think the concept is great, and the arrangement is pretty solid, but the sequencing is mechanical and the samples are rough. Shariq said it. I'd like to hear this again after some tinkering. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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