Tensei
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so THAT's what produces those sounds, hmm I guess I'll have to go find a theremin soundfont or something then =P thanks anyway
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I was wondering if it's possible to get an effect similar to the vintage-sounding Sci-fi scream Protricity uses at 2:05 in his Zombies Ate My Neighbors Remix from any of the synths in Reason. Can anyone please point me in the right way?
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Well a good piece of music can definitely be conveyed through means of simple General Midi, but it will never reach the potential it has without rendering it to an MP3.
The key to understanding those equalizers and compressors is not thinking about them as necessary tools, but rather as effects to improve the quality of the sound, similarly to how you would put reverb on a track to give it a more organic feel.
If you say that whenever you touch EQ or a compressor, it destroys your music, maybe you shouldn't use them at all in this context. It really depends on what genre of music you're writing.
Generally any acoustic/ orchestral instruments can do with very loose compressing, or even without compression at all ( Since it flattens out the dynamics and makes it sound more mechanical), and usually EQ should be applied only very subtly, if at all. It's not like Mozart, Stravinsky, etc. etc. had access to multiband compressors and the like =D
Now generally the hardest section of the EQing and Compressing thingy is the drum sequencing, and the way they blend in with the bass, so yes, you'll need to have a fair understanding of compression and EQ before you can make these two sound effectively without masking each other, but there's enough guides on the internet to point you in the right direction.
As a bottom line, I'd say that if your mix seems to sound perfect already, there's no masking, no boomy bass, not too much sizzly treble and no overly loud parts, why compress and EQ at all then?
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Well I didn't say it was off-key or anything, the whole thing is sequenced quite nicely. I think it's more of a subjective problem where the source song itself does not have a melody that's interesting enough to use =p
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Ah what the heck, I'll do an in-depth commentary for ya.
0:00 - 1:23 Ah yes, the atmospheric intro is where it's at in the source-tune (IMO), so you should definitely capitalize on it. It's definitely evocative and atmospheric enough with the string pads and everything, but it's kind of incoherent, I think it needs a bit more structure
1:24 - 2:59 I think this whole part is very redundant, the whole soundscape seems to take a step back in comparison to the previous section. A 3-minute intro though? I know Trance is all about the build-up, but 3 minutes is way too long, IMO you could actually cut this whole part out.
3:01 - 4:15 Production-wise you're doing pretty good, and you've arranged the original quite skillfully, but it just doesn't work for me here. I admit, the source tune is hard to remix (speaking from experience here), but there's something in the chord progression that doesn't make it pleasant to listen to at all.
The lack of a real lead, and the presence of the choral pads doesn't do much for a forward drive that's often needed to keep a trance song interesting. It also suffers from too much repetition, but IMO that's not so much the problem as the previous issues.
4:16 - 5:10 This transition feels extremely awkward, and "un-trancish" (though I'm not a trance listener myself). You shouldn't suddenly let everything come to a full stop, but maybe opt for some subdued bass or drum pattern to connect the loose ends. The section itself is moderately interesting because of the odd drum-pattern and the sfx, but it still doesn't do a whole lot for me.
5:17- End
Seems basically like a copy+ paste of the third section, with maybe one additional drum pattern. It needs some lead or plucked arpeggio's or whatever, so you get that ultimate-conclusion-epic-feel where all instruments start playing together (or whatever =P) before the end of the track so you can get a suitable ending. Speaking of ending, this one really doesn't fit, it's way too sudden etc.
As a conclusion; you obviously know your way around synthesizers, sfx and the like, what I'd suggest you do is listen to a track similar to what you're aiming for, and try to implement the model (intro - build-up - main thingy - bridge - outro- etc.) to your mix. Basically you got the loose sections done, now you have to fit them together in a working formula.
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Interesting question, I've been analyzing this a lot myself lately.
I've started in mixing in a lot of different ways, but generally I just start to spontaneously 'rewriting' the song I want to do in my midi sequencer. This way it often happens that because I haven't set the rhythm correctly, or put in a wrong note, the melody is altered, and sometimes it comes out sounding better.
Also I generally don't bother with finding out the backing chords or the drum patterns down to every hi-hat, but rather I put my own beats and added instrumentation under the melody.
Of course, there are a ton of other ways, you could just import the midi and add harmonic, melodic and rhythmic content until you get something good (I don't like this method at all though), or you could start writing your own music, and suddenly think " Hey, that melody from song X in game Y would sound totally awesome over this"
Generally, I like the hit/miss factor in remixing, and while I have a very decent understanding of musical theory, I find it much more entertaining to just play along with what I have on my guitar, and "accidentally" find out a really cool chord progression, rather than thinking " Wow, if I put an IV-V-III progression under this, it will sound totally awesome"
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I would LOVE to have a decent (Harmonic) Exciter in Reason, so I'm wishing you the best of luck on your project, and I hope it will turn out the way you want.
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YES! I love this source song, I love this game, and your remix definitely does justice to the source theme.
Production sounds very decent, as far as I can tell ( Don't have my good headphones here). Arrangement-wise, this is an amazing way to handle a trance remix, the instrumental changes in the latter half definitely do a lot to add variety (I especially digged the Green Moon bongo's/conga's/whatever that kicked in somewhere half-way =D).
I honestly can't think of any serious criticism at all, it's amazing you can hold a listener's attention this well while you're actually just repeating the same melody over and over, it doesn't get intrusive at all, though you might want to consider changing-up the melody at some point, or maybe switch keys, but that's just a suggestion, I like it a lot as is.
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I've started re-arranging it once more (because I'm a stupid perfectionist), and this is what I've come up with, I'm pretty content with the first 2/3, but I'm still not really happy with the way I've handled the half-time drum/harpsichord cadenza, so maybe I'll redo that once more.
http://midishrine.com/midi/15964.mid
By the way, this host has some issues with instrument changes and volume levels in the midi, so only use it if you really can't stand putfile, otherwise putfile is the most obvious choice for listening.
http://media.putfile.com/Bloody-Tears-Yet-Again
Hope you like it
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While an interesting concept, I don't think many people will be phased by the fact that it was made in a video-game, it's just kinda gimmicky. Generally, I just listen if the music is any good, without thinking about the production methods, because, honestly, I could care less about that.
I don't know the source material, so I can't say if this is a midi rip or something, but the production is obviously sub-par to say the least, and I generally think it's a bit too repetitive to warrant a place on OCR.
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Well I figured out Reason has the POTENTIAL for a multi-band compressor, you have to link up multiple compressors with multiple vocoders and separate each band, etc. etc. takes a bit too long to explain, but it's possible, and I will be using it =p
Reason is perfectly capable of loading up soundfonts, all you have to do is open it with an NN-XT sampler, easy as pie =D
Well about this mix, I've been working on some other things (mainly for projects), but I'll return to work on it as soon as possible, this wip will not die =)
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I've posted this in the project forums, but I'm reposting it here so it will get noticed quicker, it's about the HUGE collab we've got going on for the arrangement of Awakening.
If you haven't yet heard it, go check it out in the project forums, I've gotten a decent amount of work done.
Also, is there any clarity as to which people are exactly involved in collabing, and WHO will be doing WHAT?So far I've made up a list from reading the topic:
- Foxhull -> Guitar
- Taucer -> Guitar?
- Doomsday -> was going to do the drum sequencing? Not sure
- Prophet of Mephisto -> Sax Soloing?
- Fishy -> Guitar
- Me/Tensei-San -> Arrangement (+ Guitar if necessary)
- Avaris -> provides samples/sequencing if necessary
Can everyone involved confirm this list (If they're on this forum, that is), or if they want to do something else or more (For example if I've put you down for guitar, but you happen to have some bitchin string samples, and would be willing to sequence the strings as well, please tell me)
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I don't know if there's been a question about this topic before, but I'm pretty curious about your thoughts on adding a master reverb to your mastering chain.
Yes, I know the general consensus says " More Reverb = BAD", but I've read in some guides that a medium studio plate style reverb, or a small acoustic room style reverb, combined with a low wet-dry ratio can help make the whole mix 'wash together', and give it the necessary 'shine'. I haven't really extensively tried it out myself, but does anyone else have thoughts to share on this subject?
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I have a multiband compressor combinator! Just have to ask man.
www.malcos.co.uk/Multiband_Compressor.cmb
Or if you want something a little louder, I came up with this, although it's not tweakable apart from the maximiser module:
Thanks a lot! I'll definitely check out your version, but I kind of made an improvised compressor myself (4 Mclass compressors+ 4 Vocoders)
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I've made a real quick comparison between the new version and the old version, pretty much the only thing I did was turn down the gain on the limiter and put the master compressor on bypass (The compressor actually wasn't necessary at all, none of the parts were too silent or too loud).
Pay special attention to how crisp the hi-hats sound in the first (remastered) part compared to the second. While I've normalized both versions to roughly the same volume (which is what a listener would do too; turn up his speakers if the mix was too soft, and vice versa), the drums in the remastered version are allowed to peak much higher, and thus have a much more obvious impact on the mix (because the second part is pretty much a compressed turd)
Not really an update, but I was just intrigued by the positive dynamic impact provided by mastering the mix way softer, and allowing only the drums to peak.
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Well, you could try looking on www.hammersound.net, that's where I found a few very decent FREE bass guitar-soundfonts (I'm pretty sure that Fruity Loops is able to load up soundfonts).
I actually found that about 50% of the credibility and quality from the bass comes from the way you process it ( compression, EQ, distortion, etc.), you just have to pay attention so that it fits between your kick-drum and your rhythm guitar, without masking either of them.
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Holy..Sh*t
WHY did I decide today that I'd need a real DAW, and Reason 3 just won't cut it, then came up here to see this.
DARN YOU, Propellerhead
(Here's to hoping for a multiband compressor
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Ok, mad props for the rhythm guitar work, it sounds really powerful and is definitely the driving factor behind your cover.
The lead guitar is definitely a bit worse, some parts sound dissonant and off-beat against the rhythm guitar (don't know whether this is on purpose, it's been some time since I've heard the the original). Generally, the guitars are well produced, but they tend to mask a lot of the lower end, which doesn't do much good for the other instruments.
Unfortunately, the drums sound really boring, you should definitely set up more changes in the hi-hat rhythm, add more tom/snare fills, etc.
Also, where's your bass-guitar? I couldn't hear a bass at all, and I presume that's not because my headphones are that bad ( because they aren't
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Well since I'm doing everything in Reason, I do not have access to a fancy multi-band compressor (This might be my last mix in Reason, I really require a decent DAW for some of my needs), a solution might be messing around with the automation for the compression on the cymbals and stuff, but I'm not too sure if that would work out.
EDIT: The solution was actually goddamn simple, apparently I had it mastered a bit on the hot side so I guess the volume of the kick+bass+ high-frequency cymbals peaked maybe a bit above 0 dB so that probably caused some artifacts, I've put the master compressor on bypass, turned the master gain on the limiter down, and cranked up the volume on my soundcard, and I'm amazed how this affects the drums ( in a positive way); the snare, the toms and the kick sound totally different. I guess loudness isn't everything..
Thanks a lot for the link, I hadn't found it yet, but it's definitely helpful.
I guess I'll have to read up on the workings of an organ a bit more, since what you say hadn't occured to me at all. The Jeux soundfont is really kind of overwhelming with all the Ripieno, Plein Jeu, etc. presets.
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Wow this topic is still alive? I had already made a new one, with quite a few updates since the last one here: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10176
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I definitely love the vibe you have going on, the arrangement is straightforward, but it definitely works.
This might sound like a weird suggestion, but I'd absolutely LOVE to hear vocals. During the section where the piano dropped out, and the focus shifted to the organ and the bass, the soundscape became a little empty, and vocals would just sound so awesome there. But anyway, that's just my opinion. Definitely finish this.
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Definitely add live violin to it, if you have the means to record it. A decent live performance goes a long way in raising the quality of the whole mix and adds so much more personal input to just about any song.
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I guess it sounds alright, has a bit of a chiptuny vibe, but I'd recommend to not post a WIP before you have some more stuff done, simply because this is way too little material to comment on, and I can't even tell what kind of genre of music you're planning on having this mix be.
Anyway, looking forward to hearing some more.
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that's what I use anyway.
Thinking of doing a 'machines' refill...
in Music Composition & Production
Posted
Let me just say, wow. It's amazing how the mix already sounds pretty cool, but as soon as the exciter kicks in it just starts to totally kick ass, and when it leaves the mix suddenly starts to sound pretty lifeless in comparison. No wonder these things tend to get overused like hell in nearly every mastering chain.
Anyway, more mad props for the work you've already done, it's simply amazing how much hidden potential Reason in fact has, and I can't wait to start using your devices =D