Tensei
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Posts posted by Tensei
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He's just Arachna!
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AM should get Vanguard/Battlefury and Manta Style. Seriously, after Manta Style it's like impossible to die with him if you know what you're doing.
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That's awesome, was it with Zeus?
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Divine Rapier is like the best item ever and Riot should be ashamed that they haven't put something similar in their game yet.
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Prophet, you need to man up a bit more. I really doubt Zero was in the wrong here because I've played a lot of HoN and a bit of Dota 2 with him as well, and I know that if he rages, it's usually pretty damn justified. Not to mention he usually stays on the constructive side of criticism.
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Get a room already, you two.
E: goddamn I really wish I could understand Russian cause their commentators
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Dota 2 is by far superior to HoN in graphical readability. The reason you think HoN is better is because you've played that for hundreds of hours vs. like maybe 2-3 hours of Dota 2, so you can recognize every washed out graphical effect for what it is.
Obviously you aren't instantly going to be able to recognize everything that's going on in Dota 2, but it's WAY easier to get there than it was in HoN, which really has an unfortunate combination of gritty detailed textures and lots of bloom and particles flying around.
And regarding animations, it's a balance factor. Period. Don't fighting games have something similar where certain attacks may be very strong but have a significant upswing animation so they're easily punishable? Lina and Puck get shitty attack animations to prevent them from achieving dominant farm and becoming midgame carry powerhouses, Sniper and Razor get near-instant ones for exactly the opposite reason. How is having more variation between heroes a bad thing again?
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maybe zircon found out very quickly like I did that the laning phase in dota 2 is basically 'stand at your tower until razor decides it's time for you to not be alive anymore'
Yeah I can't believe they put in such an overpowered hero like Razor.
I honestly don't even get the complaint here, are you saying that it's unfair that a random pubstar outlaned you when he probably put way more time into learning the game than you have?
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I like having 50+ heroes/champions to choose from. I know the games free, but Id rather pay a flat rate for a fuller game. I was happy to pay 30$ for hon. I'd happily pay upwards of 50$ for Dota2 if it means I'll always get to play what I want to play. Cosmetics on the side are super cool. But I don't like paying microtransactions for gameplay elements.
I'm kinda thinking Dota 2 will be free with all heroes unlocked and only use $ for cosmetic purchases.
Also zircon you've played all of like 3 games of Dota 2 (Bot games too) so I don't think you're exactly in the best position to be making calls on which game has the more exciting laning phase. LoL does not have Smoke of Deceit for example, and unless the metagame has suddenly wildly changed since I stopped playing (which I doubt), it's still way more farm-centric.
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Changing the metagame in small increments is probably better than completely breaking it and having to start from a clean slate though. Evidently the game isn't THAT terrible, or all of you wouldn't still be playing it.
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zero is right in that I basically want lol to move away from dota - I think that tensei is still pretty much wrong in saying that last hitting is a fundamental part of the game when there are arguably many much better possibilities design-wise that serve the exact same purpose
It IS a fundamental part of the game though. Think about it this way: if you'd do something relatively moderate like reducing the gold from last hits by 50%, but you'd increase gold ticks/tower gold correspondingly so it somewhat averages out, it would COMPLETELY break the current metagame. Maybe supports or roamers would suddenly become overpowered, or maybe you would start to see 3 AoE-heavy champs in a lane trying to push it down as quickly as possible.
No doubt the early-game dynamics would feel completely different, and to a lot of people it just wouldn't feel like LoL anymore. And keep in mind that this is only with a reduced emphasis on lasthitting, not the complete removal of it.
Can you say with 100% certainty that such a drastic change would significantly improve the game in every respect? I don't think anyone can, and Riot would not want to risk losing a portion of their playerbase, especially while their current model is working out amazingly for them.
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I'm just pointing out how the "if you want x in this game, why don't you go play this other game that already has x in it"-argument apparently is only valid if Bleck gets to use it!
I think that removing lasthitting changes the game on such a fundamental level that it'd be like, for example, changing the main objective to Capture The Flag. In this case I feel like it's justified to suggest a different game that was balanced from the outset around a different gold mechanic than lasthitting.
Adding a single champion who happens to have more intuitive multiple unit control doesn't affect the game to the same degree at all, so suggesting SC2 (which is an entirely different game, in a different genre) as a replacement is pretty silly IMO.
E: Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you play a micro-intensive champion, so they could pretty comfortably add it without affecting the portion of the player base that dislikes multiple unit control. Removing lasthitting on the other hand...
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So what you're saying is that adding actual control of multiple units (instead of the half-assed alt+click LoL has right now) is far beyond the scope of the genre, but completely removing one of the most basic mechanics around which most of the game is balanced is fine?
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Now, I've only played two games of Dota 2 and didn't have to deal with Invoker, so correct me if I'm wrong here, but from my understanding he can bust those spells out at any time, right? What's the cooldown like on his Invoke?
The difference is that Lee Sin and Nidalee's spells are more predictable. For Nidalee, you can tell what she's going to use depending on what form she's in, and for Lee Sin, his skills are bound in pairs; if he uses one, he'll use the other. As far as I can tell with Invoker, unless you can memorize all ten of his QWE combinations and watch his casts of them, you can't really know what he's going to do? Again, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have any actual experience against him.
Invokers build can literally be predicted the second you get into a lane with him. If you've played Magicka it should be a lot easier to get a grasp on how he works, but he will basically always telegraph the build he is going with the swirly orbs that appear around him and correspond to the three elements he wields. He does not reach his full spellcasting potential until he maxes out at level 25.
Granted, you probably wouldn't know this without having played him a few times, but it's fairly obvious that when you have a meteor/tornado flying in your direction, you should probably get out of the way. I wouldn't say it puts more of a burden on a new player than having to play against Nidalee ("Huh, she's a cougar now? Whoah she can just jump in like that and kill me in melee?")
if I wanted to micro-manage a million tiny units with one ability each I'd play starcraft 2 and be done with it
"If I wanted to play a dotalike without lasthitting, I'd play Demigod and be done with it"
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Even summoning temporary controllable units (not like Annie's bear, like a real controllable entity) would help.
I'm actually pretty sure that Riot is incapable of programming something like this, which is why they throw around the anti-fun/burden of knowledge buzz words whenever they're asked to bring in a champion with more inventive skills.
Invoker is the pure extraction of Burden of Knowledge. Obviously, all champions require some knowledge to be interesting, but this is a great example of going way too far. Ask Guinsoo about his thoughts on Invoker sometime - he designed him originally.
7 different spells on Nidalee and Lee Sin? Fine. 10 different spells that are cast by combining elements like you would in Magicka? BURDEN OF KNOWLEDGE.
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You can't add unique champions like a dedicated pusher. Those are anti-fun!
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The point isn't that there are a lot of bad picks, but that there is so much overlap in roles that tanky DPS Xin clone #3 is ever so slightly stronger than Xin clone #5 so there is barely ever a reason to pick the latter because they simply don't bring anything unique to the table.
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No, I am implying that Dominion is less popular because it significantly changes the fundamentals of the game. Taking away lasthitting would significantly change the fundamentals of the game as well!
It's a way too risky move for Riot to be making. You can just elect not to play Dominion if you don't like it, but something that affects the 'main' game to such a degree will affect the entire playerbase, and as much as LoL players love to shout how they rid themselves of the oppressive, archaic shackles of DotA, somehow I doubt that changing 'their' game on such a basic level would go over well.
I think you're underestimating how much balance could be thrown off depending on the alternative they implemented. If anything, attack points/projectile speed differences would suddenly matter a whole lot less as there's no need to time your attacks anymore, and depending on the implementation it could also strongly affect ranged vs. melee balance.
The reason I suggested other games to play is because in the end, Riot isn't gonna implement anything like this anyway, since they're positively allergic to anything that could ever so slightly disturb their beloved 1-1-2+jungler metagame.
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What's the point of changing something that is as fundamental to this particular game as lasthitting? Riot has shown to be incapable of doing something relatively insignificant like removing flash, so the idea of them reworking a major aspect of the game at the risk of alienating a huge portion of their player base is pretty out there.
Dominion has like barely any lasthitting at all, but how many people do you think consistently play that over Summoners Rift again?
If you think lasthitting is a bad mechanic, there are always alternatives in the genre like the otherwise excellent Demigod, or the upcoming Super Monday Night Combat.
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Bounty Hunter is pretty close to Talon, having a hit-and-run physical burst damage playstyle. He even has a similar track skill that reveals your targets location.
As for Jax, Huskars ultimate is like a beefed up Leap Strike+Empower combo, dealing a flat 50% of enemy health, while Slardar has a similar AoE stun and on-hit bonus damage.
Sniper has a skill that's pretty much the same as Miss Fortunes Make It Rain, as well as getting similar bonuses to his attacks, though some of his aspects are found in champions like Tristana and Caitlyn as well.
Malzahars ultimate can be found on Shadow Shaman, but most of his other skills differ. Puck has a similar damaging AoE silence, but really most INT heroes have a pretty similar AoE damage output that lets them farm and push.
Dazzle follows Karma's DPS/Support hybrid role pretty well with his damaging heal, but instead of a shield he basically gets a 15 sec CD Undying Rage that he can use on his allies.
There are quite a few heroes that are probably more similar (Guardian Wisp for example has a skill very similar to Karma's Spirit Bond) but they aren't out yet.
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There are many more references than that. Rikimaru the Stealth Assassin is a shoutout to Tenchu for example, Vengeful Spirits Magic Missile comes obviously from D&D, Nevermore the Shadowfiend is named after E.A. Poe's The Raven, Lucifer the Doombringer is literally the fucking devil, Zeus is actually THE Zeus from Greek mythology etc.
Juggernauts Omnislash skill should be self-explanatory.
I wouldn't be too bothered by it. WCIII DotA used to be a mess of pop culture references and characters cribbed from the WCIII campaign. Valve obviously can't directly take over Blizzards property but they're at least trying to keep the other references intact.
What's your favorite LoL champ? I can probably point you to a hero that's similar in role/skills.
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Call of Duty will always be for the 'hardcore'. I cringe when I say this because I've met obnoxious teenagers who scream 'I'M HARD CORE' when all they've played is a newer, very niche genre.
Are you kidding? Call of Duty is one of the most casualized and widely accessible games in existence. It's one of the most mainstream games on the market right now. In fact, I'd put it closer to Farmville than I would to Dark Souls.
In response to the thread, I think a concept like game® culture, especially when you define it as something that encompasses every person who happens to play videogames, is ridiculous. There is no such thing as a movie or literature culture because they are too broad of a medium to really 'unite' people like subcultures tend to do.
This applies to videogames as well, especially because as a medium, videogames haven't really matured past the stage of being mindless entertainment. Videogames are not art (yet).
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You joke, but pulling off some insane AoE combo with Aghanims (Tornado->EMP->Meteor->Deafening Blast) on the entire enemy team feels super awesome.
Dota 2
in General Discussion
Posted
Well yeah, the build is very cookie cutter, I just thought the vid was amusing.