GrayLightning

I promised Ravi to comment on his CS mixes a while back, but I've been too busy up til now to listen to it with any great deal of detail. Morning Sunlight by sephfire/SirRus Nice work you two. This one really surprised me, as it seems very different from the work you two normally do. EQing/velocities of the marc/stac strings at the onset could have been a little more distinct to accent those passages though. I recognize the reason piano and think the tone of it fits this piece perfectly. It has that nice gentile sound that I particularly like. The supporting strings and woodwinds add a nice touch and background element to the mix. Very nicely done you both! Manifest Destiny by SirRus This one I had to hear, I've heard the wip versions and the previous version of this. Nice to see the stereo spread finally expanded on in this version. The balance and placement is more refined now. I thought as usual for you, the creativity and the arrangement concepts brought to the table were handled very nicely. I'm not sure if those disco violins fit this piece as well as it could have though, but that's a small complaint. Compy did a nice job adding some space here between the various elements. A little underdeveloped, and the ending could have been smoother with the ify ritardando and bass drum hit. Small issues aside, I thought this was extremely well done, and a great listen. I'm not surprised that a lot of people are particularly citing your mix amongst the crowd. Good job bro, proud of you. Keep at it and keep improving!

Side topic note, Ishkur is highly uneducated outside general electronica genres. Though yeah for this question, that is a good place to start.

I heard this mix through all its wip stages and especially during the stages sgx took over and started working on it. I wasn't going to vote on this, since SGX is probably one of my best friends in the scene; however, I think this decision has dragged on way too long personally, and our apologies to sephfire and sgx for the delay. Personally I think my most ify issue in the mix is the arrangement. It does get way too liberal at times. SGX had me listen to a wip before and I asked if he could include more of the source material more overtly, and he's done that, so I feel satisfied in that. The production, I can see where larry is coming at at times. I mean, mixes of this nature and of this strength tend to create a wall of sound that larry finds unappealing in this case. Personally I don't think it's an issue. SGX's fx processing here really made this mix as far as I'm concerned. Hot, catchy mix. YES

New file/link posted.

The store Smoke buys stuff at doesn't have the sony, plus it's getting very obvious Smoke has a bias against them! He's pissed off they destroyed nintendo.

DJ Crono pm'd me

Posts deleted/edited. Let's keep things civil here, Concerto, Mike or anyone else.

Dude, you're way late. We're into 5th page already Yeah, I haven't been around in the last few days.

Cat's finally out of the bag.

Will Vote later, NO though. Edit vote: I really liked the previous resubmission of this. As before, I think the arrangement, conceptually is great. But the execution once again is very problematic. Samples are generally great, though I can see why the solo strings would bother some people. It has a very woody, harsh sound. I personally might EQ that with major and narrow reductions in the 2-3K range to remove that bite. But it's personal taste. I like the unique tone your solo strings have. The rest of the samples are generally great. The bass, piano, guitar and percussion are of very good quality. Love the bassline btw and the bass instrument in use. The sequencing of many these instruments are very unnatural though. You have your volume, dynamics going all over the place, especially with the solo string. The dynamic shift of that keeps going up and down in a strange way, almost like you have some humanzing midi fx on that midi channel to humanize the dynamics. The tempo changes are good but sometimes aren't as smooth as they could be. I'm torn on this, I think it's a very unique and cool arrangement. The ideas are there, but the execution in some ways is an improvement over the previous resub, in some ways more lacking. I don't think you should give up on this, because the potential for a very good passable mix is there. I say give this one more shot. Borderline NO.

JJT is right on the money. The first thing I thought of was the classic Gidget films/tv series when I heard this. This would be at home in one of those beach scenes. But this has nothing to do with jazz as far as I can hear either. Samples were decent (though used very well) - production was basic, but serviceable. Borderline in this aspect though. It's ify. I do like the arrangement a lot, but this is just too underdeveloped, repetitive and not polished enough at this point for me. Excellent ending to boot. This is really fun stuff. Very promising material here - this would really make a great candidate for you to resubmit. NO

Yeah this was pretty liberal, even I didn't recognize it at first. I like the atmosphere, but this mix was way too clouded and muddy for me, even for a mix of this nature. I agree with Vig pretty much, but one has to also remember that a lot of game music has only 2-3 chords, and sure it's incumbent upon us mixers to expand it more, I don't view it necessarily as a prerequisite. A lot of Ecco music in particular has very repetitive chords, as that's not usually the focus of the mix. But I do agree that it depends on the context, and in this context it just comes of as really really repetitive. Still a pretty nice job though. Though I'd personally like to hear sharper production work done here, in addition to evolution. The texture of the piece remains the same with the same instrument from start to finish. NO I too would like to make a commentary outside the context of judging this mix. Congratulations on your hardwork in trying to raise money for wildlife conservation. Sir, I respect your actions and intent behind them, as an animal activist/wildlife conservationist myself. Best of luck.

Well, it doesn't bode well when you start off the mix with quite a bit of clipping/distortion/audio anomalies that aren't pleasing; and they continue throughout the mix. This alone really is enough to sink this boat. I can't count how many times I twitched due to the sudden grating sound. The mix itself is put together pretty well. It's definitely a good first attempt, and far better than the normal class of mixes we get from a new mixer. Though as it stands, it's too straight-forward and basic a mix. Wasn't particularly muddy on my side, but the production was in general bland. I do like the phased/processed drums though, at least there was something going on in the production design. To cap it off though was an uninspired though ok ending. Not bad, keep at it, but this mix still suffers from noobitis in some ways. That's not meant to be an insult, but this just isn't up to the bar yet. Keep working at it, learning and participating in the WIP/Remixing forums here at OCR. NO

He sent me the new version: without the vocals and other editing with the mixing. -- After having a long discussion on my issues with the mixing yesterday with Diggi along with the vocal gripes I had, he's pretty much addressed the main issues I had with the piece. The stereo balance is a lot better now with the percussion being shifted, it doesn't sound as off kilter imo. And now even during the busier sections there sounds like there's more definition between all the disparate elements that in my opinion are critical to mixes of this style, there's also more balance now with the new pan assignments. Without the questionable and what I called cheap website pimpage and vocal part, I think it doesn't cover up the pretty instrumentals either. I like this new version a lot more and satisfied. Vote change to YES.

I chatted with disposer and discussed with him these issues, he's going to be editing it and sending us a resubmitted version soon.

I don't agree with the EQ remarks first and foremost. It's much too complex a topic to touch on here, but as Vigilante said, to expect completely even EQ response, within an inaccurate tool like winamp anyway, for acoustic music is not a prudent thing to do. There are plenty of acoustic material and orchestral music that have very little activity in the treble regions. So in this case I think it falls on our ears and our gear to make such determinations. In my case, I feel there is some EQ work that could be done, particularly in the 5-8k and 10-16k ranges - but to me these are very minor issues anyway. In this context, I think it's fine. I also feel the strings are pretty good. This is far better than GM quality stuff. This sounds pretty much like the best one can get out of free soundfonts, and it's used very well as well. I personally would have used more reverb on the strings though, the pizz's for example are really thin and dry. Intimacy is so important to this type of mix, so you don't want to overdo the reverb, but the pizz is a great example of why it's so dry and thin here and could benefit from minor processing. Speaking of dry, the whole mix is dry. There's very little dimension due to a lack of space and placement with the lack of reverb or delays. Arrangement and performance are very strong. Koelsch has been listening to our advice and/or continuing to try to get better. His progress is a leap forward and in total, I think definitely passable material. I'm torn, I think this could benefit from a tweaking with a little more reverb, but on the other hand one has to wonder where the personal line is. Though, ultimately, I doubt this would pass in its current state, but I'm rewarding Koeslch for a job well done and continuing his hard work with a passable mark. Edit: I've been torn about this since my previous vote. Given that I was borderline...now I'd like to see a few tweaks here and there to address not only the concerns I laid out, but the concers of other judges. There needs to be some reverb and/or delays here to bring the instruments to life and give dimension to the mix. Intimacy is key, but so is dimension. I warn you not to overdo it though, or the mix could get messy or too mudy for this nature of the mix. Do the quick edit and change most of our votes to YES. Please resubmit. NO for now, but hopefully not for long.

Some nice ideas presented here, but I'm not quite as into the mix as Liontamer seems to be. I dig your stuff Steve, but this mix comes of rather vanilla to me. Straight forward arrangement in general. I think this needs to be expanded on quite a bit. The synths and synth designs are pretty basic with very little processing going on. I feel the drums are too reverbed for this genre as well. There's a very strong boxy nature in them, lacking the space that reverb creates, but at the same time it doesn't have any punch or quality either. It just sounds rather dead and flat. Beyond that, I think the drum line needs some spicing up also. It tends to go on and on, with the same pattern with little evolution or humanization. The hats need a little more sparkle too in my opinion, it sounds very drab, just like the drums in general (from an aural perspective). I have to say, and it may be just be me, but the vocals don't really fit at all. They sound cheesy and out of place. But that's your personal choice I guess. The ending needs work as well, it's pretty abrupt and unfulfilled. It's been a while, so I hope you continue to submit. It would be nice to see something of yours posted again. Again some nice ideas, but this needs a lot of polish and reworking in my opinion. NO

I thought this sounded extremely cluttered, especially at around :30-1:00. The piano sounds so washed out without any detail. Specifically, I don't feel it wokrs in this kind of context. There's a lot of stuff going on without any kind of clarity or much attention paid to stereo separation. A lot of the instruments sound close to centered and/or without much definition. The beats are annoying to listen to on headphones. It's like panned semi right. Only in a big orchestral/instrumental/drum and perc heavy mix could I envision that working, but when it's that exposed, the balance is completely off. Also a lot of the time this mix feels very heavily slanted towards the right side with little activity going on in the left side. The vocals are pretty irrelevant to the mix, in a horrible way. There's no bearing, it doesn't fit, and it just ruins the mood completely for me. I also agree that self-pimpage of one's website is really cheap. I do like the arrangement, instrumentation and style of this mix a lot though, in general. Very nice, chill vibe. Needs more work imo and worth doing so as this is promising and has a strong foundation for a resubmission. After talking to digi about the mix, and making suggestions his new version addresses a lot of the issues I had. Vote change.

Yes. The user demos are much better. The official demos are lackluster and hastily put together midis KH has lying around. That he just switched the samples for without composing for the samples. It has its pros and cons. I think the agressive brass and fast strings are particularly good. The double basses are particularly powerful. The woodwinds on the other hand, I personally don't like at all. They sound too airy, almost like the dreadful QLSO woodwinds, but with lower quality recording quality. I also like the fact that KH has a more intimate sound than other libraries, particularly good for agressive compositions, while not limited to the distance/ambient nature of other libraries or VSL's, imo, poor dead sounding silent stage. Personally I think it's a good supplementary library to layer other samples with. I would not get it as your main or core library. What do you expect from a $150/250 library? It is what it is, a good budget level library - nothing more, nothing less. I think it depends what kind of sound you're looking for ultimately. Also what kind of flexibility are you looking for. Do you want intimate or distant sounding mixes? Do you want to do the soundstage design yourself or do you want it premade, etc.

I don't really mind the core content of your posts [scene], however, the way you express these ideas and the constant cussing in so many of your posts is completely out of line. This isn't behavior we condone, especially in the Remixing or the WIP forum. Please keep some basic rules on etiquette in mind next time. I will not repeat myself with a similar request/warning.

Definite YES. Full vote later. Edit: This may be one of the mixes that has taken the longest time to get on OCR with multiple resubmissions and a lot of hard work by Abadoss to arrange and polish the mix. I'm extremely happy to see when a mixer takes the critique we've given/strives to get better/continues without given up - and in this case it has paid off. The year and half or so of work has been realized with a really strong mix. To me the best aspect of the mix is the wonderous arrangement. I like all the intricacies of the mix and the medley of themes are woven together extremely well. Very solid orchestration all around as well. Love the use of all the various instruments. The harp writing is particularly nice, imo. Production is far better than the last version you sent to us. GPO sounds great in the right hands and it shows here. Remember with intimate and close mic'd samples that often there's very little release trails and decay. This is true of GPO and has been alluded to in JJT's vote and other votes in the past. The key is other than basic reverb is to lengthen the decay settings a bit more, as well as to increase the predelay. Something you should consider next time. Quality mix, I have no hesitations with the Yes vote or this passing.

The source material is very limited and I can't say I'm surprised on how this mix turned out. Usually mixes with limited source material either become very liberal or when they stick close to home, they usually end up unsatisfactory like this. I think this mix is really disjointed personally. The drums and percussion sound very limp, without energy, nothing driving. The drums and percussion in my opinion don't even go together with the other elements of the mix. They feel pasted on. Synths are very basic and plain in my opinion. Arrangement generally is pretty straight forward and conservative. To me the main issue that compounds all these other sub issues is the whole pacing of the mix. Everything sounds stagnant and not moving forward. It's overly long at 6 minutes. I'm sorry to say it feels like it's just repeating the same motifs with the same instruments while lacking any evolution. Like Larry, I thought the 2:40 section was also the high point. I really love the synth vocal pads in that section as well. They sound great in this mix. But other than that, this needs a lot of work. Clear NO for me.

I can see where the other judges are coming from with the meldyitis comments, but it doesn't bother me too much. It seems like you listen to a lot of Uematsu music. His arranged albums in particular have a very distinct structure in the meldey aspect that I can clearly here present in the structure of this mix. This is an educated approach in my opinion, on the surface. I strongly disagree with saying that the percussion needs to be sharp. I do agree you overdid it with the reverb, but a lot of orchestral/symphonic pieces have the percussion this far back. I'd personally reduce the predelay and wet ratio some more. The strings need to be more upfront with less reverb. Generally though, some of the same issues that plagued your older submission are present here, to a lesser degree. There's not enough supporting material, chords or underlying instrumentation or percussion. At times it just sounds too sparse, thin and over reverbed. One thing you might want to consider is varying your snare pattern velocities. They sound stuck in the same dynamics during the repeated notes. It sounds a bit fake. I'd work more on the ending as well, it was a real let down compared to the whole piece. I think this has a lot of potential. I hope you consider resubmitting it. I generally like the arrangement and orchestration. I think Liontamer said one thing perfectly about this, this is very spirited work that is undermined by the littany of issues we all detailed. NO, please resubmit PS really liked all the chromatic and regular percussive section at the 2:35 area. Really neat stuff going on there.

Zircon hit the nail on the head here, the sync issues really hurt this submission. I think this is too sparse generally. There's not enough supporting material. The mixing is also questionable, everything bleeds into each other, there's not much definition between the melody and harmony. For this style of music that is key. I don't think the arrangement values are generally passable. It's too straight forward in my opinion. The production and recording also need quite a bit of work. Completely agree with Liontamer here. I second this. Overall, it's definitely a very cool concept. But the execution and content as it is, needs quite a bit of work before it could pass. As Liontamer hinted at, there are other places where your mix might be able to get some attention at, and of course you can post it at our WIP/Completed forum, if you haven't yet. NO

Well, the original is groovetastic with very little actually going on in terms of substance. In that sense I do like what you've crafted out of that. I think I'm liking this a lot more than the other judges. This sounds like a lot of electronica/film cues. I personally like the texture, the synths and yes the groove here. But I think this needs more focus on integrating the source material with the arrangement concepts. I also feel the arrangement generally is underdeveloped. More attention needs to be paid to the ending as well. The production is generally ok. I like the groove, synths and samples. I think this needs more EQ work. You need to carve specific sonic spaces for all the instruments. For music of this nature, I think the sounds really need to be distinct and stand out against each other. A lot of eq work would be ok here, as would compression, maybe even light exciters to brighten things up a little. Another thing I want to hear is more use of the stereo space. A lot of instruments sound centered, or near center. I'd like you to pan things a little wider. More effects processing in general would help this also, to add some spice to the instruments and synths. Neat stuff, I'm digging it, but it's not quite there yet I'm afraid. NO