GrayLightning

I have to say this has a lot of fantastic aspects. I like the approach and the arrangement. This sounds like a great movie/chill underscore. Unfortunately for me the execution and production really hamper this. There's a very thin and sparse, lacking element that goes on here. You have the drums/percussion, guitar, piano and bass, but there's very little going on between these elements. It feels vacant. A pad playing the chords would help a lot. I do like the instrumental texture you are going for here though. There's no dynamic contrast here, but I think for the type of music it's perfectly fine in my book. I'm really digging the style here. But I think the production here is also lacking. Everything sounds underprocessed, dry and vanilla. I think you need more reverb here for density, spacing within the sound field. Also this needs some eq work at this state. Needs a bit more bass and treble for warmth and shimmer. The overall production just comes across a bit lofi and plain. What I would give to hear this played by a good band though. The ideas are there, but the execution and production are both lacking. Keep it up Blue Magic, I really like your style. I hope you keep at it. Also I should note your hand percussion sequencing rocks - excellent work there. Needs more at this point in those categories to spice things up. NO

I don't see where compy and zircon are being pretentious jerks. Just because they slighted silver in a little manner? I do agree with the generalized opinion of "well you'll probably want _____", followed closely by "_____ isn't very good, you want THIS _____". Too many people are caught up in buy this, buy that, use this, use that mentality. But I don't see what relationship this has at all to do with what zircon and compy said. There are other ways of spending $150. What's the big deal?

We have already set such precedents. We don't accept certain genres, as I said in my vote. Why don't we allow great dance music with only melody, bass, and four on the floor if it's really danceable? Why don't we allow Yoga music, etc. One can go on and on, but again we have driven a line on a sand for the benefit of the site. To say otherwise, is simply not true. To say otherwise would just be voting on personal opinion contrary to the standards/policies DJP has set prior. Read case study 3 where he set the preceedent on HH/Gabber type mixes. I don't see you making a big outcry there. The same holds here. If we're going to allow this and make genre exemptions for one, we should do it for all. Not just this one. Secondarily, saying NES sound quality for your view is fine and all. But that is your pesonal view that goes against a lot of factors and the standards of the site, the standards that djp has given - in addition the collective consumer, professional, technological opinion that spurred Nintendo to team up with Sony to produce the SNES soundchip, due to the inferior NES sound quality that hampered it in gaming circles, by contrast to the superior sound capabilities of Sega Master System or Turbo Grafx 16 (and this was in the 80s - so now 20 years later now this is in vogue because some people say so?). There is a reason this technology was so lackluster that Nintendo tried so hard with Sony's help to improve itself with their next console. So you can say you like it, and it's fine, I like it on some level too. But in terms of application of it to our standards, you are arguing against the consensus. Bottom line, an arguement is being made here where from a judge perspective something sounds good because you say so, even if You can disagree with me, or the facts presented, but saying so based on personal opinion does not make it so - especially if it's contrary to history of videogames/technology, facts, and standards.

Quick comments before I go on vacation... Wow, just wow. I don't believe what I'm seeing here. I'll vote on this when I get back from vacation. If we're going to pass this, then we should pass that happy hardcore mix or Mazedude's we had major issues with recently, not to mention too many to list NOs we've been giving out. The production here is worse, it being a chiptune is not an excuse based on past precedent. I can not think of a mix we've passed in the last two years with lower production values than this one. I don't see on what planet this would fit our production guidelines at all. I do like the compositional elements here, but at the same time it is being limited by the artist's purpose. This sounds too basic on some levels. Also there is an art to chiptunes beyond these basic applications. For me, this is a pedestrian chiptune mix, and one I don't see that should pass. Maybe if it were to the quality of Virt chiptunes. But this.... Again, I go back to the very substandard production (even within the context of a chiptune). I want a full panel vote on this one. NO, full vote later. I'm gonna be out of town and will be back after new year. Additional Edit: Ok I'm back from vacation. Larry, Jon, TO please reconsider yesing this. There are some huge issues here. I think since we have so many new judges lately it is important to put a historical perspective here. What is the mission statement DJP has given the site? The two main elements he has asked us to vote on with equal emphasis are Arrangement and Production. We can and have slightly towards one way or another in many cases, but this is too lopsided (one area is critically lacking, while the other is not in my view passable). In DJP's words, this is an MP3 site. Vig gave a lot of examples on where we can, and justifiably can give exceptions, but this is not one of them. This is too unbalanced and completely devoid of the production elements we are looking for. This isn't about voting on what you might view as interesting for OCR, it's about adhering to what DJP has given us as a foundation of how we look into mixes. In particular Prot, Vigilante and Myself, for the last few years have been trying to hold onto a singular standard that would be fair for all, while keeping the standards high, but accessible enough. This is the course of action the old guard of judges have chosen and one that we collectively have tried to adhere to in the recent years/months since then. A vote of yes in this case would be a clear changing of these very values that we've tried to uphold - to dimish DJP's mission statement/instructions on what this site is about and the standards that we have tried to hold up. This is a clear case scenario that isn't subjective, quite frankly. It is also important we look at 3 landmark decisions that have taken us into this path. First is an issue of when a mixer continues to get mixes up consistently, the bar for that mixer does go up slightly at least. Production elements need to at least go up, rather than do a 180 turn around and disregard the maturation of these elements. Case in point Coop, who has virtually left the remixing community because he can't evolve in this regard. Case Study 1: http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28527 Darius 'Silverhawk Legacy' Coop has given up submitting because of our demands. Now we collectively want to go against this and suddenly accept something that is far inferior in this aspect? This would not be fair at all. You can make your own rules and say whatever rationale you want, but the bottom line is you would be disregarding one rule. Let's be fair in this regard. We have been passing quite a lot of stuff from Shna lately, so it must be clearly mentioned this has nothing to do with slighting Shna. We all collectively like his mixes, but in the above example this issue of falling back greatly comes into play. Case Study II: http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=61482 Super Mario Kart 'Pentagon Path' *RESUB* Plagued by production issues. The production was in some ways better in the Kart mix than in this FF6 mix. I won't go on too much about this, as the comparison is evident for us who were on the panel at the time. Case Study III: http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65719 Fröhn 'Remastered Gabber Mix' There are some mixes that simply aren't up to OCR standards. It is very important for us in the panel to give a nod to genre restrictions, and we do that to the best of our abilities, however, at the end of the day, the singular panel standards have to be the most important issue here. If I flip the example around instead of production issues to composition issues. There are many electronica genres out there with only a four on the floor line, melody and bass line - with no harmony. Should we let these into OCR because a genre dictates it? Should we let basic hip hop drum pattern with no bass and harmony under a rap vocal in, because the production was uber-tite? Should we let Yoga music with some harmonic pad along side bird chirp music in? There are many genres out there, and they are indeed viable forms of music, but there is a limit and a line has to be drawn somewhere for us to accept something. DJP and us in the panel have drawn these lines over the past few years. Chiptunes are no different. By its very nature, a chiptune (and especially in this particular case) has the most basic of production elements to almost preclude it from passing. To quote DJP in the gabber mix. All these add up. Really, the decision here is clear. To yes this would be completely hypocritical and unfair to all the production rejections we have made in the last few months - including mazedude's mix, blad's, etc. Who had superior production efforts to this one. Production simply isn't the quality of the presentation. Production has 3 basic elements to it. Sound/synth/sample quality, the application of how to mix and master, and fx processing. For example, in some of Prot's older mixes that Vig alluded to the sample quality wasn't always the hottest, but he knew how to design the synth, mix and master it, and process it. Again, I go back to the nature of this mix. The production is too negligent to pass. And one really can't say because the genre makes it acceptable it is acceptable for the site. I gave 3 important case studies that refutes all these notions. Just because you like it or think the genre allows something this lacking, it doesn't mean it is passable. Please be fair in the application of these rules. We have rejected too many mixes on "subjective" opinions, but we finally get a clear cut example here of a mix that is lacking or nonexistent in one aspect, but then we go and turn around and say this is completely fine, on an element that is completely subpar. Let's respect the panel foundations, the mixers, and this site's mission statement. Please reconsider your votes here. If this passes, for the sake of fairness, I am requesting DJP step in to veto this vote, just as he did with the Happy hardcore mix. This would not have passed a year or two ago, and I am shocked that the panel is regressing and is on the brink of passing this - when we have rejected so many superior production efforts.

I guess I'm the tiebreaker here. This one was tough, as I could relate to some of the NO votes. I do have some production concerns here as well. This is one of those mixes that really deserves closer examination and I wanted to let it sink in before I made a vote. This one is probably one of the most divisive mixes we've gotten in a while - there's a lot of strong opinion on both sides. Usually, as in art, with music these usually result in mixes that are definitely worth listening to. The NO votes do have some valid concerns. I thought at some points the reverb was way too much, it sounded like it was set at 100% (with automation?) and AB confirmed it to me that it indeed was. I also felt the drums, as with some of the other vote comments were too strong. There is overcompression going on here. I also would have mixed this down to -.3db instead of 0db to avert some possible monitoring issues. I question some of the artistic liberties taken here. The arrangement and composition is the highlight for me though. I was torn with this mix. My opinions on this shifted as I listened to it more over the course of a week. A lot of interesting compositional ideas were interjected in the mix. Though I felt at times there was a disjointed nature in its flow, the ending was also a bit cheap and abrupt. At the end of the day, the issues in the mix to me take a backseat to the creativity, uniqueness and neat textures conveyed in the approach. Too much work is apparent here, where I am hesitant in claiming the issues I have in this context are necessarily problems. The cons take a backseat to all the neat pros of the mix, so much so that I am inclined to YES rather than even NO resub. Not my favorite of AB's but a creative piece of experimental music that is worthy of passing.

I was going to yes this, but after repeated listenings I think there could be some things fixed up for this one. I don't have a problem with the piano production, it's not a recording from galaxy studios, sure, but it's passable. I personally think the arrangement here is wonderful, and arguably blad's best. The voicings and the color of the piece is great, from the piano perspective. The beginning is great. The piano composition and performance reminds me a little of gershwin plus music from american soap tv music (which usually have great scores, I should note). The string and flute writing is one of blad's most mature, really great ornamentation. The runs and trills are a great touch. Drumwork on the other hand though is really lackluster. But yeah the string lines could be better, and certainly the drum work needs to be. I'd rather have it not here than here at all in this case. Tough call, I could almost go either way on this, but given the concerns of others as well as my reservations... I think that is telling and I also think that even a little more work at least would help this a lot for posterity's sake. very borderline NO, resubmit.

This is superlative and rivals Clairvoyant Elegy as the best, or arguably the best effort by the duo of Bladiator and TO. I think the arrangement is dazzling on all fronts. Bladiator's new age piano style (more in the style of yanni/clayderman this time works a lot better in my view than his brickman style). The piano is not obnoxious, but it quietly becomes the focus and central point of this arrangement. It's the anchor here and is it ever wonderful. Blad adds a lot of new performance touches in this one compared to some of his other mixes. I love the ornamentations he puts in the piano work. And yet, even with all this going on, it never steals the thunder of the other elements. Everything still has their own space working harmoniously together. TO as usual brings in the great supporting and production touches. The strings, instrumentation and groove is perfect for this mix. Wonderful in all degrees. This mix could not have been accomplished without either collaborator - in that sense at its most basic level is a great testament of the succesful nature of this collaboration. Direct post material in my book. YES

Yeah definitely a basic upgrade of the original. I'd like to hear your personal interpretation here. Add your own personal style and creative ideas, merge it with this upgraded source material. This is too repetitive. Consider including other source material to help give the appearance of evolution. Right now the mix just tends to drag on and on with the same patterns going on forever. Considering you had little to work with the source you should consider adding a strong melody/harmonic support and/or adding more source materials. This sounds like a framework for a mix, but where's the meat here? NO

Wonderfully dark atmosphere. I really like what you're trying to do here. The execution on the other hand leaves something to be desired. A lot of the sounds here sound very untreated. They sound lofi, small and shallow. I'd like to hear some drastic EQ work here, reduction of the middle frequencies 300-1000 hz would help a lot. Reverb to give space and density as well. Everything sounds so small and upfront. The drum line for example is really small and lacking impact. I'd like some eq or compression done there to give it some power. I also think this would benefit from a stronger high frequency percussive pattern, either with stronger hats or perhaps tambourine. The drum line stagnates when the bass drum and snare feels so isolated. Really like how you're using the tubular bells though. They add a great creep factor. Ending was a bit disjointed and abrupt. This needs quite a bit of work in my view. Neat ideas presented though. Keep at it. NO

Yeah definitely has a 80s vibe running throughout the mix. I think the arrangement and composition ideas are pretty good, but the execution is definitely lacking. The guitar/synth tone is just ugly and too brittle. There's no clarity, everything sounds mush. A lot of 80s stuff has a lot of reverb and delays yes, but there is still a way to make it sound distinct. I'd watch your delay/reverb tails and shorten those. I'd like to hear better attention paid to the production subtleties. The harmonic elements for example sounds fuzzy and dull and lofi. Work on cleaning up this puppy from top to bottom as it has promise. Not there as of yet though. NO

Jeremy's russian exploration has been really evident in his last few submissions. Jeremy has been growing in this department and lately is showing to be one of the best in the orchestral department. His book knowledge is formidable and it's becoming more and more apparent in his works. The arrangement is really great. Great combination of expansion and flow throughout. I like the pacing and dynamics of the piece as well. The brass is a bit dry for my tastes, especially when the brass is at its strongest and blattiest, I think they sound better wetter and densier than this dry upfront. Also the trumpets could have benefited from more reverb to make it thicker and bigger. Great ending to finish things off. Small issues aside, really wonderful work. High quality start to finish. Easy YES.

Quality production through and through. That's the highlight of the mix. The arrangement I thought was most of the time borderline. Larry defined the term properly - expansive arrangement. Personally I want to hear more liberalism and personal approach taken. This is probably the borderline of my prerequisite where I might pass, personally. The additions and ornamentation on the performance and additions front saves it for me, and of course the top notch production. I think this mix could have benefited from some instruments that range in the middle frequencies though. At times there feels like there's a void between the guitar, bass, drums. Good work overall. YES

Great post Chz. More supplementary info below. From VGF chat: [22:02] 04(GrayLightning04): larry's mold is getting on his inner fro [22:02] 04(GrayLightning04): that's why he's not playing fowl jive [22:02] 01(CHz01): Probably shoplifted it. [22:02] 01([smoke]01): Does Larry have a pubefro? [22:02] 04(GrayLightning04): luckily, I don't know [22:02] 04(GrayLightning04): nor do I want to [22:02] 01(neminem01): how about All Your Lifestyle Are Belong to Us? I want to hear that played [22:02] 01([smoke]01): Let's ask him [22:02] 04(GrayLightning04): ask him [22:02] 01([smoke]01): Larry, do you have a pubefro? [22:02] 04(GrayLightning04): keep asking [22:03] 04(GrayLightning04): until he brings it up That's how it all started. Gray and Smoke for the win.

I got in touch with po! and he said per the information contained in his email. That clarifies that.

It's only pwnage if it were true. Otherwise it ain't. I am tuning into tonight's show though.

That's what happens when larry makes the poll himself. Only my mockery of Larry polls have any value to them. I voted for the second option about unmod. WTF is this poll again? It must be some reference to the RAPE interview in episode 65 (which is up for the taking on Paige's webspace BTW). I finally heard it earlier this week, and man, did I enjoy it And... I sound like a Canada? Whether I do or don't, that's worth saving a soundbite over Thanks for the clarification, as I haven't been able to tune into the show for a while now. Larry really should move the show out of weekends. Many of us have lives and things to do on weekend nights. A replacement poll on larry's mold would be more interesting, regardless.

That's what happens when larry makes the poll himself. Only my mockery of Larry polls have any value to them. I voted for the second option about unmod. WTF is this poll again?

Yes it's been on the direct post queue. It's the same, as far as I know.

I don't know where to start on this one. It has got its moments to be sure, as a joke mix. But honestly this doesn't warrant further comments especially since Liontamer has gone insane over this. I'm with vig on this one in terms of brevity. While it has entertainment value of a quesitonable nature, this really doesn't belong here. NO

Verified. It's good to go.

Taking one of the most famous pieces of all time in game music history is tough. I'm a purist in this case, that's my personal view. You just don't decide to repaint the Mona Lisa. (I'm being slightly sarcastic) But moving on... This is a really good arrangement. I wish the melody was more present though. But the arrangement and production is definitely capable and I find no reason to reject this. On a personal note, it is a little cheesy and sappier than I'm used from you. Really neat stuff from a technical and nonpersonal angle though. Keep up the good work darangen. YES

Well...where to start on this one. The arrangement is rather basic. I don't really hear any significant liberties taken of note, if I may be honest. You do add your own flavor here and there with the sax, yes, also you do add some more supporting material in terms of expansiveness. But looking at it from the sum of the whole of its parts, I think this needs more work. Both conceptually and in execution. The sloppy sax playing is...well, needs quite a lot of work. You might have been better off going with a fake sax sample, at least it wouldn't be doing all this weird stuff in terms of performance or have these out of tune issues. Another issue I had was the sparseness of the mix. You had one, two or three basic elements going on at one time. More attention needs to be paid to how full the mix sounds. Here, I don't hear that happening. This is a joke mix? Why is this on the panel seriously? Is this even a joke mix, I don't hear anything funny or entertaining or horribly bad here to laugh. Keep working at it. You have potential, but you need more practice. This needs work in all categories. NO

Finally more streets of rage mixes. Unfortunately this has several problems. - underdeveloped arrangement - cluttered sound - very muddy and bottom heavy, the bass and bottom end frequencies virtually drown out everything else. I do like a lot of retro music, but concept and genre alone isn't enough to bypass presentation issues. Keep it up, some neat stuff going on here, but I feel this needs quite a bit of work in the arrangement and production to pass. I really dig the strange as well as the retro sounds though. NO

I concur. I'd like to hear more fx processing here too. Everything just sounds bland. The production is vanilla. The lead is painfully boring. I'd spice that up with more delay or some modulation fx at least. I'd like some eq work done, for example the string pads sound very mushy. There's no crispness. For music of this nature, I think there needs to be less mud, less reverb, more upfrontness. The lead should be a bit more upfront too. This is a pretty fun listen though. Keep working at it. Super HangOn is great mixing material, and I would like to see this pass the site. I hope you consider reworking and resubmitting this. NO

I don't know about this one. I really enjoyed the previous version...At least based off memory. This over comes off as really cluttered. The balance is way off. There's a bit too much reverb on everything. I'd make the melody more upfront and more the focal point and everything else more background material. EQ, levels need to be worked on quite a bit in my view. I just can't agree with the mixing/production decisions made on this mix. The whole thing just sounds like a mass of sound, and in this context, in my view it doesn't really work. I still like the concept and the ideas presented, but not how it was presented. I wish there was some other supporting material here though, the similar tones throughout get a bit redundant throughout. Still, good sax work as always. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you. But this is a NO I'm afraid.