Methods for composing on FruityLoops?

[Meteo Xavier]

I'm trying to really up my songwriting skills through FruityLoops and I need some help doing it. I've somehow written and completed songs before, but mostly out of luck. I desperately need to get organized and I was wondering if anyone who writes and completes a lot of stuff on Fruity Loops could share with me their methods of doing so. Where to start, where to go next, where to finish, etc.

Specifically, I've relied too much on the step sequencer and I want to be able to write like Motoi Sakuraba. I know i'm not Motoi Sakuraba, but thats what I've chosen as my model for songwriting. The core areas I need to improve are making up intros, transitions and phasing, instrumentation and balancing them correctly and dressing up sections of songs so they are dramatic or subtle enough.

I don't have any examples right now, but I can get some if I need some. Thanks!

[Lunahorum]

It helps to compose it in a different program because piano roll is hard to look at and see what is going on. (if you can't read music, then this won't be a benefit). It also helps to compose everything in one pattern except maybe the drums. Depending on how good your computer is, you might also want to compose using midi sounds and then make producing it a completely different step. My computer is 1.4ghz single core and 1gb ram so I can't have too much going on at once. What works for me is to compose, then produce by rendering down to wavs and other techniques. If I try to do both at once, my computer can't handle it.

Usually most songs start with a kick and snare groove. Then add in highhats, bass, melody, and filler pads. Although you can do anything you want. Post in the WIP forum and on other popular music forums to get feedback for absolutely free.

good luck

[Nutritious]

It helps to compose it in a different program because piano roll is hard to look at and see what is going on. (if you can't read music, then this won't be a benefit). It also helps to compose everything in one pattern except maybe the drums.

I'm going to have to disagree with this as a matter of personal preference. I do all of my composition in FL Studio and find the piano roll to be very intuitive. Also, I prefer to keep patterns down to smaller blocks. Anywhere from 1 full measure to around 8. The longer your pattern is, the harder it is to navigate to any specific spot you want to change something.

Once I get the first pattern down on a specific instrument and need another, I'll right click the pattern and clone it. Then, start editing the clone. This can save time rather than grabbing a blank pattern each time, finding the right instrument to place the notes, and naming it. Cloning will just add a # and the next number to the pattern name, saving you from having to manually enter a new name. Keeping your patterns named will really help you keep your song organized by instrument.

I also always write in the clips half of the Playlist window rather than in blocks (this can be done in FL 7+). This way, you can easily see which instrument is playing what based on your earlier naming conventions.

As to your method of actually approaching a piece, it really depends on what genre of music as well as what approach you find works well for yourself. If you use your Lufia mix as an example genre, here's how I usually approach it:

-First, when I get the main melody or hook for the song, I'll write that section first to get the general pattern and harmonies down.

-In case I have several good ideas I don't want to lose, I may do the same thing with other sections

-Then, I write an intro to the song (this is something your Lufia mix was missing). Something that grabs the listeners attention right off the bat and can develop well into the main hook.

-If there's a beat in the song, I'll generally do it now. I know Zircon and others start with their beat, but I like to hear how the song is going first so I can try and match the beat to the song, rather than the other way around.

-Next, I'll go back to the melody section I wrote earlier and write transitions & other sections of the song. Gotta keep in mind that your song needs distinct sections with varying sounds and volume levels. This could mean other instruments, letting the drums drop out, letting the overall volume of a section be higher or lower, etc.

-At this point, I write the ending of the song (something I'm not that great at yet).

-Throughout the process I'll be tweaking parts, changing instruments, levels, dynamics, etc. At the end, I'll listen to things several times spanning usually a few days to listen for any problems or something that doesn't sound right.

Really, your preferred method of composing will come naturally as you become more familiar with the program. If you're just getting started I HIGHLY recommend the entering into the PRC and ORC competitions in the Competitions forum. I started entering into these right after I began trying to write music and it gave me a great opportunity to practice and get feedback on songs. PRC forces you to remix a new song each week, so you keep working with different material each time. This gets you away from (IMO) the trap of trying to work and work on the same song that you're stuck on from the very beginning. Instead, you more on to more material and come back to those earlier songs you're stuck on as you get better.

Hope this helps.

[Zephyr]

I almost entirely disagree with max, and mostly agree with Nutritious, what follows is my personal conventions and advice, do what works for you...

Watch lots of tutorial videos and fool around a ton, getting comfortable with how to do things in the program will help things come easier later. If you like to do everything in one pattern go for it, but i think that just makes almost everything more complicated. I like to use the playlist for arranging things and makes automation and repeating much easier.

I also highly recommend the competitions and I'll add the CMC to the list, it's for composing original songs according to a theme. It helps me a lot because I had trouble remixing songs straight from the start and found composing new ones easier. It also gives you about a month to complete it if you find yourself needing more than a week. There's also the FLMC, but I'm not personally such a fan of that one, it also gives a month. Keep trying and try not to get frustrated with anything.

[Meteo Xavier]

I've BEEN screwing around trying to find my own method for the last 3 years and its not going anywhere fast. I've been missing out on basics and essentials to composing and writing on Fruity Loops and therefore I need sme procedures and methods.

I mean c'mon, there's got to be some system to how all those video game composers can write 2-3 CDs of music in a few months.

[blue.nocturne]

I notice that VG composers sometimes half ass songs.. it's not like every song on the track list is SUPER AWESOME. Usually only like two to three are good, unless they happened to be really inspired at the time they wrote it. Also, most of the time, the percussion follows the same pattern almost the whole song, occasionally changing, but it usually ends up back to the original pattern before the first loop. So I think it's better not to get intimidated by the composers out there today, and in the past.

Anyways, I get composer's block all the time too, and I find it helps to just play around with real instruments and to use any ideas you happen to come across there.

Playing around with synths that you usually don't use too may bring about inspiration.

Try out new time signatures. Nobuo Uematsu uses a lot of odd signatures in some of his most famous battle themes, such as from FFVII and FFVIII, don't rely on 4/4.

Usually the good ideas come when you aren't composing, such as at school, work or in the shower, which sucks, so try to remember what it was and hopefully you can jot it down before you forget it.

Another thing I notice is that the more I come back to a song, the less cohesive and complete it feels.. so if you have a good string of ideas, might want to finish the whole song then and there or at least a layout of it.

Personally, I compose in this order: Melody -> Bass -> Harmony -> Ambience

It's sometimes funny, since I often make the finishing touches, then I'm not really happy with the melody, so I have to scrap it and start the section over again.

I'm sure video game composers have to go through this all the time too, but of course sometimes they have to submit the song anyways because of deadlines.

[Tensei]

Try to analyse the music you're aiming for, get a feeling for how the composer solves the things you mentioned (the transitions, the phrasing etc.) and then try to apply them to your own stuff.

I've been trying to nail Joe Hisaishi's (the composer for movies like Spirited away and Princess Mononoke) style lately and I noticed that after listening to enough of his stuff the idea's for songs really came by themselves and all I needed to do was to write them down. Of course later on I was able to pinpoint key points in his style like using a lot of pentatonics in the lead melodies, but I think that if you listen enough Sakuraba's stuff you'll get inspired no matter what.

That said, for me there really is no clear way of doing things. It can happen just as well that I get a complete musical idea (melodies, harmonies, percussion and all) or that I come up with a cool progression by noodling around on my guitar and then adding melodies etc. Just do what feels right

[Meteo Xavier]

Try to analyse the music you're aiming for, get a feeling for how the composer solves the things you mentioned (the transitions, the phrasing etc.) and then try to apply them to your own stuff.

Well yeah, thats obvious. I already have a shitload of MIDIs I look through on FL. The problem is not knowing to look through them and identify problems, the problem is fixing them. Its applying them, as you say, that I'm having trouble doing. I can copy them all I want, which I don't, but when its all said and done, the song still just doesn't sound right.

I've been trying to nail Joe Hisaishi's (the composer for movies like Spirited away and Princess Mononoke) style lately and I noticed that after listening to enough of his stuff the idea's for songs really came by themselves and all I needed to do was to write them down. Of course later on I was able to pinpoint key points in his style like using a lot of pentatonics in the lead melodies, but I think that if you listen enough Sakuraba's stuff you'll get inspired no matter what.

Im already inspired, its the technical knowledge I lack. Rules of thumb, proper techniques and such. All I find on arranging are how to do it with sheet music in classical music formats. Plus no one has the balls to midify Baten Kaitos Origins.

[Zephyr]

Can we listen to some of these examples you said you could get for us? Oh, and however helpful theory is, I know many people who would argue that it's entirely unnecessary, including some published OC remixers. Do you ever get ideas in your head as you shower or walk to you job or school or something? Every once in a while I'll try to compose a song in my head in the middle of math class once I'm done taking notes, I then try to realize what I'm doing to make it sound good. This is just me though, some people don't have the ability to hear music in their head like that.

[Meteo Xavier]

Very well.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1550438

http://www.savefile.com/files/1550440

http://www.savefile.com/files/1550442

http://www.savefile.com/files/1550448

These are my practice songs since I started this topic. 1 and 2 sound very much the same, I was trying to go for a Ys sound which is heavy in bass and drums and usually in D minor. The 3rd I was playing with a synth VST and 4 I was going for a Baten Kaitos kinda song. I'm trying to learn to change up the songs quickly so that when I want to do it, I can do it fairly easily.

[1makes2]

i would suggest reading up and learning about production techniques(ie.. reeverb, compression, eq, gating,) fruity loops is useless if you have no idea what all the little knobs do (ie. wet/dry ratio, compression ratio, frequency range, attack, realease, decay, ect..)

that is assuming that you already know a thing or two about music theory and flow (ie.. chords, progressions, ect..)

and mostly PRACTISE!

no one is AE overnight.

[Meteo Xavier]

Its all very well and good to suggest reading up on production, but where do I find decent tutorials that aren't completely imposing to read is my question. The only one I found so far is Zircon's instruction bits. I've seen a few videos on youtube, but they are very basic or very advanced and I haven't found the level that I'm at yet.

Did anyone try those bits I made?

[DarkeSword]

It helps to compose it in a different program because piano roll is hard to look at and see what is going on.

Sorry, but I just wanted to address this.

Piano roll is far more intuitive than staff notation. It's so much easier to visualize intervals and relationships between notes because, well, they're staring you in the face. I can see that a chord is minor by just looking at it, instead of reading what the notes actually are and figuring out where they fall in the diatonic scale (I realize of course that to a trained person, the time saved is a matter of a few seconds, but still).

By the same token, when you're composing, you're less likely to confine yourself to the diatonic scale. I hate the term accidental, because it makes it seem like you wrote something you weren't supposed to write. Music can sound a lot more interesting when you branch out from just the 8 notes in a scale.