2009/09/26 -Small Update- Sonic (GG) Bridge Zone remix

[Tarnish]

Hi all, probably never seen me around yet. I'm new here and just started to try remixing using Fruity Loops 7. Since I'm a big Sonic fan I'm probably going to try to remix Sonic musics mostly. Here's my first attempt that I think has some potential in it, it's from the Game Gear Sonic 1, the Bridge Zone:

I know it's short and actually not a remix yet since I just changed the intruments in a MIDI file (I read the rules in the 'About' section), but I like the sound of it, pretty energetic and kinda techno-ish, so I think it might be a good starting point for a real remix. Tell me what you think, does the style and instruments used in it sound good enough or should I change them in some way. If ppl seem to like it, I'll try to add my own touches to it and see if I can make a decent remix out of it.

Looking forward for some feedback, thx in advance:

Tarnish

[Rozovian]

Stupid source, makes me think of a really annoying childrens' album from my part of the world. Anyway, since it's admittedly a midi rip at this point I'm not gonna comment more on the source.

Production is okay for a newb.

Your electric guitar would sound better if it was a clean sample put through a number of effects (distortion and/or overdrive, autofilter, amp simulator, reverb, possibly delay). That'll make it richer, fatter, and you'd have more control over it.

Drums are weak. You'll want compression on the snare and kick, reverb on the snare and cymbals, EQ on all of it. You'll want to enhance the punch of the kick and snare (kick tends to have punch in the 50-200Hz range, snare in the upper half of that), as well as drop some frequencies in the middle, at least for the kick. The snare could use a boost somewhere other than the punch area, but it's impossible to say where without hearing your snare, and I'm not sure I have the ears to tell anyway. Try around 500Hz and move up until it sounds better. The hihats generally need to lose a lot of lows and mids. And you should add crashes. Crashes follow the same settings as hihats, except they shouldn't lose as much mids and lows.

While on the EQ topic, most tracks are eventually gonna need some EQ. But that's a later headache, just like master EQ, master compression, and all that.

Lead needs to be more alive. It sounds like a modulated waveform, but you should add some human qualities to the lead writing as you work on the track. Little stuff, like longer notes, raise/lower velocities where it sounds good, pitch bends, stuff like that.

And then you need a bass. The guitar stuff you've got does go low enough for this not to be missing the lows, but you could go lower. As you write, you may want to add stuff like a pad, another lead, some ambient texture (aka weird pad), fills for the drums, stuff like that.

As for writing, you're gonna be needing to write stuff that's fitting for the source but that isn't just a repetition of source backing. You'll need some new chords, or put the chords in a new progression. You might need new rhythms, new backing tracks, another lead (which needs lead writing and can't just copy what you got from source), etc.

The best suggestion I have is to listen to stuff in similar genres or with a sound that you want to have in this, and figure out how they got that sound and how you could. Use the internet, the Remixing subforum, and wip board. Good luck.

[Tarnish]

Thx, I'll try to understand the technical part of your advices, I'm not really used to those, especially since english is not my native langunage.

I think that wether ppl like the source tune or not is pretty relative. I chose it because I personally really like it, and also like the song you claim 'really annoying'.

And yeah I know I have to add my parts to it, I tend to do that.

Thx again for the advices/opinions.

[Rozovian]

I didn't say the source was bad, I said it was stupid. Of course it's a matter of taste. I've just heard that childrens' song too much.

If you have any questions about terminology, production, creative, or ocr-standards-related, just ask. And google is your friend, too

[Tarnish]

Edited the drums a little and tried to add a little bass to it, as well added a very little edited chorus versions:

[Rozovian]

Okay, you did the right thing, you only did it too much. The kick especially. You can hear that it "pumps" when it hits. It's also distorted, but I'm not sure if it's an effect (overdrive/distortion, too much EQ?) or if it's just so loud that it clips. It's got lots of energy, but it doesn't sound good anymore.

(Do you know what clipping is? When a track goes above 0dB, it's more than the file can handle. The signal goes from a sound-like wave to just a flat line at the top. It's only for a few milliseconds, but it's enough to give it a very ugly sound when it clips a lot. A track can be above 0dB in the DAW (the audio program) and sound fine, but once it's rendered to a file anything above 0dB is cut. The best way to counter clipping is to put a Limiter on the master channel. The limiter is a compressor that reduces too loud peaks to a set level.)

Try turning off the EQ. If it sounds good then, you've got too much EQ. If not, it's probably the compressor.

Ease up the compression a bit. One of my presets suggest the compressor's attack should be about 50ms, the release close to a thousand. The ratio is 5:1, and the threshold is -15dB. Those settings should be okay for your kick. Raise and lower threshold until it has energy but doesn't clip.

You might want to start by reading about compression and other remix stuff in zircon's remixing tips compendium. There's a lot of stuff to read, but parts 4 and 5 contain effects. You'll be wanting to read about compression in part 5.

The new chorus writing is pretty cool, but you should make small changes to the melody too. Just small ones, like moving a note a step back or forward to change the rhythm, or to play the melody a few notes up (you'd have to change the melody a bit so it doesn't have notes that don't belong in the song key signature).

This is how you learn. Keep working on it.

[Tarnish]

Thx, I'll check those tips out and try to get the drums right, among other things.

[Eino Keskitalo]

Noo, that's a kick-ass source.. and it segues really well with the green hill zone, hint hint hint! (It's the same in the Master System version).

edit: I think you have a pretty good soundscape together, which is impressive for a first-ish mix.. you probably have a good ear for sound. That said, this definitely needs a bass instrument.

--Eino

[JH Sounds]

Stupid source, makes me think of a really annoying childrens' album from my part of the world.

Fuckin' kickass song! Now I'll make an electronic remix of it...

[Tarnish]

I think you have a pretty good soundscape together, which is impressive for a first-ish mix.. you probably have a good ear for sound.

Heh, thx. I may not know much about remixing yet, but at least I know what sounds good for me. And I am planing on adding a bass.

Fuckin' kickass song! Now I'll make an electronic remix of it...

Lol, okay, can't wait to hear it if you do.

[JH Sounds]

Lol, okay, can't wait to hear it if you do.

I actually started a remix a few hours back, but someone invited me to watch The Dark Knight and I had drop what I was doing to go. The creative strands have already dissipated, but I'll make a separate thread for what's left of my mix since you're interested.

[Tarnish]

Worked some more on the drums and tried to give it a little bass, tho the instrument that's going on in the background during the chorus will be changed coz I don't like it.

I think I'm getting close regarding the drums. I also came up with a new title for it, dunno if it suits the song tho.

[Rozovian]

%20, aka "a space". Don't use spaces in file names on the net. Tindeck is saying the file doesn't exist.

[Tarnish]

%20, aka "a space". Don't use spaces in file names on the net. Tindeck is saying the file doesn't exist.

Hmmm, worked fine for for me, and it says it has 9 downloads in total, so I assume it worked for others too. But ok, I won't use spaces in the file names in the future.

[Rozovian]

It's not downloads it's counting, it's clicks on the download button. I've done that 4-5 times. Anyway, it's not a problem in Firefox, so I got thefile.

It's sounding better, compression is a little too aggressive at this point, but once the rest of the track is filled out it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

The guitars sound awful, and the melody going up and down, starting at 0:12, sounds terrible. Might work if it's a cleanern instrument, similar to your lead but not as distorted, and a few octaves up. As for the guitars, are you using an amp simulator? Those work way better than pre-processed distorted samples.

The hihats could be a little more than three ticks. First, go with 4 or 8 ticks (3 ticks aren't a problem unless you use that all the time). Second, don't use ticks, use a little longer samples. Not all samples have the energy they should for music like this, but see if you can find something a little longer.

Wait a second, there's a ride in there. Good idea, but a ride doesn't have the energy to punch through. Rides work well in calmer sections, but you haven't got any of those.

You know, it'd be interesting to hear with with some backing chords on an organ or something. See how it sounds, might even things out a little.

Overall, this is already sounding nice, but there's still a lot of processing to do. And you'll need to make it longer and more varied (evktalo's suggetsion to use the Green Hill Zone seems like a good idea if you can make the transition smooth enough). But so far so good.

[Tarnish]

Well, worked some more on it, at least instrument and effect-wise and decided to turn it fully into an electronic style song, at least in my opinion it's in that style. I think it got pretty original and the instruments go quite well with eachother, but if you think otherwise, let me know.

I also changed the title.

I know that I still hadn't made any progress regarding new tunes and melodies so please don't point that out, but I wanted to get the instruments and effects done first so I won't have any problems with that in the future, and because I have no ideas yet. I don't really want to make it from 2 songs by adding Green Hill Zone but if I won't have any other ideas, I might give it a try.

So anyway, let me know what you guys think. I personally like how it sounds now and don't really want to change on it.

EDIT: Made a few minor edits in the notes, next I want to make an intro and own parts in it, but so far no good ideas yet. Strangely tindeck says it's 1:42 long which is not true..weird.

[Tarnish]

Well, any opinion?

[Rozovian]

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, rl stuff.

Overall, this is sounding fairly well mixed. It is missing a few things, and once they're added, you'll have to recheck the mixing. The flanging on the background is a little too intense, I recommend reducing it. Lead could be a little louder. I'm not hearing a bass (which is important), and you could even out parts of the track by adding a pad.

The rhythm feels like it's staggering, especially since your main drums go KICK_space_space_kick_SNARE_space_space_space. Put something in the second half of the loop (i.e. 2nd or 3rd space after the snare, depending on what rhythm you want), preferably a kick, but a hihat could work, perhaps both. The snare is also way too weak.

For a remix, it opens way too abruptly and doesn't have an ending. Work on writing those. Don't worry about it being short at this point, just write those two things. It could get about twice as long then, and wouldn't feel like a loop.

Making it all electronic is probably gonna make some stuff easier, since you don't have to make it sound real. So far, so good.

[Tarnish]

Thx for the advices, but I think I quit on remixing, it's too time-consuming and meticulous, not to mention it will never turn out perfect anyway. And I can't compose new parts for it either, I don't have talent for that. Tried to come up with something for days but got nothing. It all started with just messing around anyway. It was kinda fun, but I don't have what it takes to do this kind of stuff.

[Rozovian]

I think you've done great for a first timer. It starts off being difficult, but you eventually get the hang of it. Toy around with your music software and see if you can make an original song. Some pople I've talked to say you learn much more from making originals. It also helps to get feedback.

If you change your mind, these boards are probably still gonna be here.

[Tarnish]

I know said I quit on remixing, but I never really keep promises like that so I continued to try and finish at least this 1 remix that I started. So here's what I got so far:

Still very far from perfect and complete, I know. I made an intro for it (well, I tried). I know that the gap there is too long coz I wanted to bring in an ambient instrument before the others but couldn't find one that goes well with the others yet, and that I also have to bring in the other instruments too, but at least I got the idea of the transition and the intro. The mixing needs work too, but for some reason Fruity Loops changes it a bit when I export the whole song..seems fine when I export in pattern mode..there's still no real ending and that note sliding is very bad at the end, but at least I figured out how to use that feature. I tried to make it a bit more varied and add some new stuff to it.

So anyway, I'm open for advices and opinions again and hope that some ppl will like this remix thingy.

[JH Sounds]

I forgot to thank you for inspiring the funnest 15 minutes in my creative life.

[Tarnish]

Lol, no problem I guess. But don't tell me that you had the most fun when you worked on that bridge zone remix..kinda hard to believe. XD

[Rozovian]

Yep, I remember this... and the things i associate it with.

Pause after intro is a bit too long, and you might want to add some instrument, bass, pad, some high-range backing, something to the drums-only section. A heavily reverbed version of the lead melody might work, too, if it's soft enough.

When the trakc goes back into it's usual progression, it's without warning. A drumfill or break before then would help.

The mixing needs some work. The bass is too loud. I like how it's spread to both left and right, but it's too loud, imo.

lol, this is one of the funniest remixes I've heard. You're still gonna have to work out a good progression from where it ends to where it's supposed to end, but you'll figure something out, and it'll be interesting, I suspect.

Dude, nice work.

[Tarnish]

Thx again for the advices. Yeah I know the pause is too long, I pointed that out. It's because I wanted to bring in an ambient instrument before the other ones but couldn't find one yet that goes well there. I'm also aware that it needs more instrument there, perhaps bring in the ones that are in the original tune. The transition between the new part and the original is rough and without warniing, I know, I was also thinking of doing something with the drums.

I don't quite know what you mean by the bass, since last time you said there isn't any bass at all in the song. And like I said, the mixing is kinda strange, dunno why, the program changed it slightly but I dunno why. An ending is still needed too, I know

If you find it a funny remix I assume you like it, despite it's flaws and it being unfinished, especially since you said you find the source tune annoying. My aim is to make it a joyful, happy and energetic song. Since this song is not too often remixed, I think ppl can't say it's overdone like Ice Cap for example.