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Tarnish

2009/09/26 -Small Update- Sonic (GG) Bridge Zone remix

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Hey there, not a bad attempt here :D

I use to love the source when I had this game on the GG... :D

Oh I'm gonna screw it allright..screw this whole remix, if I'm the only1 who likes it the way I'm taking it, then there's no point spending another second on it. It would never get through the judgement anyway.

Slow down there mate, try not to get down hearted about it, from reading the comments, here is my advice - Its not that no one likes the way you are taking it, a close to the source remix is fine, I have done plenty. All we are trying to do is help you get your remix posted on the site. The trouble with OCR is that to get a chance of being submitted on the site, you need to change the way the source sounds when compared to the original, like note variations chord variations, maybe a different tempo etc.

If you do not like the sound of that, then don't worry bout it, its the standards of the site, you don't have to do that if you don't want.

Hell, some people think that we fuck around with the source too much, some people prefer a true to the original approach.

Rozo has already suggested a different site to upload to - Youtube is my suggestion.

Keep on working at it buddy, and don't throw away this idea, its a good one :D

I await a new update dude, if you chose to carry on with this :D

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Hi there, thanks for the message.

On the mixing front, that bass/polysynth with the phaser on it is too over-powering, I would bring that down, the lead instrument would be more easily heard because of it, and your mix at the moment sounds a little weird - how can I put it - it sounds like your mix is shut in a box and doesn't have the room to breath, if you follow me :D hopefully bringing down the bass synth will solve that problem.

I think that the bass kick is too pronounced at the moment, I would suggest bringing that down as well, but that isn't as big a problem.

As for the changing of the source, you've done a great job, I love the variations you have put in the chorus, its awesome and kept me listening. But don't stop there, try variation the main melody a little as well :D. One suggestion - try using a different sound for the later run-through of the main section.

Look forward to the next WIP.

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Hi there, thanks for the message.

On the mixing front, that bass/polysynth with the phaser on it is too over-powering, I would bring that down, the lead instrument would be more easily heard because of it, and your mix at the moment sounds a little weird - how can I put it - it sounds like your mix is shut in a box and doesn't have the room to breath, if you follow me :D hopefully bringing down the bass synth will solve that problem.

I think that the bass kick is too pronounced at the moment, I would suggest bringing that down as well, but that isn't as big a problem.

As for the changing of the source, you've done a great job, I love the variations you have put in the chorus, its awesome and kept me listening. But don't stop there, try variation the main melody a little as well :D. One suggestion - try using a different sound for the later run-through of the main section.

Look forward to the next WIP.

Thx for the advices. Well, didn't do much on it but here's the next one: ozov

I lowered the phraser so I think it has a normal level now.

You got me a bit confused with the 'bass kick'. Do you mean the bass in the background or the kick of the drum? :S These technical expressions sometimes confuse me..

Didn't quite understand what you mean by 'different sound' either..other instruments or change in the tune?

Well anyway messed around with it a little more and reached the point where I can't really come up with new stuff, like for the main melody. I changed the bass synth at places like at 1:29 and got an interesting, playful tune but can't really come up any with any changes for the lead guitar.

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Thx for the advices. Well, didn't do much on it but here's the next one: ozov

You got me a bit confused with the 'bass kick'. Do you mean the bass in the background or the kick of the drum? :S These technical expressions sometimes confuse me..

The Kick of the drum

Didn't quite understand what you mean by 'different sound' either..other instruments or change in the tune?

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear there, I mean changing the lead instrument half way through the song.

Its getting better :D

One suggestion you could try - as a listener, I'm getting bored with listening to this, not that its bad though :D.

I think a lack of instrument dymanics may be a problem (basically, the track is at one level all the way through) I suggest putting in a breakdown section. (I would personally put it after your original section, and use the break-down as a variation of the main melody. You can then experiment with dynamics and velocities (how hard you hit the note of a instrument) and get a good fill at the end of the build up and go into the main section with drums and that phaser bass, like you have already.

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One suggestion you could try - as a listener, I'm getting bored with listening to this, not that its bad though :D.

Then imagine how bored I am listening to it..

I think a lack of instrument dymanics may be a problem (basically, the track is at one level all the way through) I suggest putting in a breakdown section. (I would personally put it after your original section, and use the break-down as a variation of the main melody. You can then experiment with dynamics and velocities (how hard you hit the note of a instrument) and get a good fill at the end of the build up and go into the main section with drums and that phaser bass, like you have already.

This part almost means to me as much as a chinese book..Breakdown, build up, instrument dynamics..wish I knew what these mean.

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This part almost means to me as much as a chinese book..Breakdown, build up, instrument dynamics..wish I knew what these mean.

Sorry :D i'll explain.

A breakdown is a part of a track where it - how to put it - it where the track suddenly loses a lot of the instruments, especially the harsh ones. It becomes more relaxing, the drums usually are absent in this part of the track or at least played twice as slow, a pad is sometimes used to fill out the sound.

A build up is where you have a breakdown and you slowly bring back in the instruments of the main section and build up to a big climax.

Some songs relay on a build up structure, the tracks starts quiet, and builds up in volume and instrumentation over a long period of time and the end is often very climatic.

An example of a song with a long build up is stairway to heaven, where it builds up to the guitar solo at the end.

Instrument dynamics are how loud and/or quiet an instrument is played

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lkmg

Well, here's my idea for the start of the breakdown. First I tried how it would sound by bringing in the guitar I did before then fading it out, but didn't sound too impressive so I thought doesn't bringing it back till the build up would be the best idea. This is just the main idea so I'll be tweaking and expanding it, but I think it sounds kinda calm and playful this way. I personally like it anyway. Hopefully you guys do too.

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Tarnish, you should listen to some random ocremixes, listening to the dynamics of the track, what parts are loud and what parts are soft. I can hear that you're learning, there's a lot of new stuff in the most recent (full) version. I won't get into a critique now, I'll let you work out your breakdown first.

I want to point you to this remix. Sure, it's not the same style, but you could learn a lot from the dynamics of it, where it's building up and where it breaks down.

:)

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Tarnish, you should listen to some random ocremixes, listening to the dynamics of the track, what parts are loud and what parts are soft. I can hear that you're learning, there's a lot of new stuff in the most recent (full) version. I won't get into a critique now, I'll let you work out your breakdown first.

I want to point you to this remix. Sure, it's not the same style, but you could learn a lot from the dynamics of it, where it's building up and where it breaks down.

:)

Yeah, I'm not sure you have quite got it yet.

Here is my example of a breakdown and build up

http://djpretzel.web.aplus.net/songs/Outrun_Instant_OC_ReMix.mp3

Its one of the oldest remixes on the site, but we are looking at arrangement, so I can get away with showing you this :D

2.21 (roughly two thirds though the track) - breakdown starts, all instruments are removed. synth starts to increase in volume and is joined by the pad. lower bass is added. Bass kick introduces the bass and the drums do a long slow snare roll increase in dynamics. Just before the build up ends, the snare roll doubles, and brings in the main chorus line at 2.57. That is the kind of breakdown I was talking about :D 30 secs of the same part played over and over, first of all stripped down and slowing brings in other instruments as a means of keeping the listener interested.

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Well, back with this remix again, still haven't given up on it yet, lol. Lately I've been trying to vary the parts I have so far to make it a bit less boring. I'm also working on own sections like the intro, breakdown and ending, but I always run into the problem that when I export the remix in song mode in FL Studio 7 to put the different patterns together it keeps messing up the mixing, at least compared to when I export a single pattern in pattern mode. This is a problem coz my goal is to use the mixing pattern mode has. Can any1 tell me if they know how to solve this problem?

Anyway, here's the latest version: Check it out.

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Good to see you're still around.

The hihat rhythm could be more even (sounds like a ride more than a hihat, tho). Snare could be a little stronger, too.

Some interesting transitions here, some interesting changes from what I remember from this. before 1:40, you've got a part where two instruments seem to be swapping bars between each other. Good idea, but needs to be more even, they're too different in energy (aka volume, punch, etc).

Something i've suggested to people lately is to change the chords from the source for part of the track. That's one way to change the mood from the source, and it's fairly easy. Also, it doesn't screw much with the arrangement. All you need are chords that fit the melodies, and then to move the bass to fit those. I suggest you try that (on a backup version).

Interesting, better than before, iirc.

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Yeah, I saw the thread, but I don't think I can help much with FL-specific problems. I'll just let the ppl that actually use FL help you with that. Hope you solve it.

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I think I quit on remixing (or set it aside at least for now)..I can't compose sh*t, I can't make the tunes and melodies I imagine in my head, and because of this it's more frustrating and annoying than enjoyable. So if any1 was looking forward to my finished remix (which probably means no1), then sorry but I'm not able to finish it.

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If you got the music in your head, that's great. Not everyone does. Make some original tracks and try your hand at some other sources. See what happens. Good luck. Come back anytime.

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Allright, so after a few months I'm finally getting close to finishing this remix. Of course, it being my first music project, it's way below the OCR standards so I'm not even thinking about submiting it. But at least I can say I tried my best and finally put it behind me, since it annoyed me that I didn't finish it, lol.

Feedback is welcome, but I don't think I'll be changing much on it (except the mixing and mastering which I know is very awful atm). The way I see it:

-the intro doesn't really suit the song and the transition into the source tune isn't perfect either,

-'own' section is pretty poor and repetitive,

-the composing is weak in general,

-breakdown and buildup transition is odd,

-buildup is inappropriate,

-it's too close to the source tune,

and the more experienced musicians will probably notice a bunch of more mistakes and errors, but hopefully a few ppl will still find it worth listening a few times.

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After I'll finish the mastering, I'm gonna post the final version for those who are interested, but then I'll move on to another song. At least it wasn't completely a waste of time to work on this, since I learned pretty much how to work with music and FL.

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haven't heard this in a while :P

I can see that your trying to get it sounding better for ocr, I think the arrangment, altho not flawless by any means, isn't bad. It has some good (and some cases unusual) variations.

The biggest problem here is the mixing and mastering, I know your aware of this however, but it does need fixing, everything is fighting for the spotlight mudding things up and I think your processing your synths a little too much, I like the ideas of adding reverb, delay, phaser etc, but I think your over doing it a little, but at least your doing these things :P

Good stuff I think but it undoubtedly needs work.

Keep on mixing and the best thing to do with your mixes at the moment is to get feedback from other mixers. Do that and you'll only get better :P

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haven't heard this in a while :P

I can see that your trying to get it sounding better for ocr, I think the arrangment, altho not flawless by any means, isn't bad. It has some good (and some cases unusual) variations.

The biggest problem here is the mixing and mastering, I know your aware of this however, but it does need fixing, everything is fighting for the spotlight mudding things up and I think your processing your synths a little too much, I like the ideas of adding reverb, delay, phaser etc, but I think your over doing it a little, but at least your doing these things :P

Good stuff I think but it undoubtedly needs work.

Keep on mixing and the best thing to do with your mixes at the moment is to get feedback from other mixers. Do that and you'll only get better :P

Heh, thx dude. :P

My aim was a happy, playful song, but at parts I'm pretty sure I failed at that. =/ But oh well, for a first song from a guy who never made music before, it's a start, lol. I tried to make changes and twists from the source tune at as many places as I could but at the recent mixing, you can barely notice some of them.

As for the phraser and other effects, I'll see what I can do with them when I'll work on the mastering, but I'm only gonna decrease them so they will still be to my liking. Doesn't really matter anyway, since I'm not planing on submiting it. If your cool remixes doesn't get approved, then this one will never get, lol.

I'm open for other's opinions too, but so far not much luck.

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I think the intro is pretty cool, honestly, maybe you could consider making a reference to it later on in the piece (maybe changing it slightly as a way of transitioning out of the breakdown?).

No need to put yourself down. You don't have to be your own (absolute) worst critic, lol. This thing has come a long way from the first version (and your first more-full-length version, too).

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