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Music Theory and Technique Vs. Passion and Soul: An Epic Tag Team Battle!


SlickDaddySlick
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I do think it is a shame that some guitarists today are just obsesed with speed nowadays, like this guitarist here, and herman li from dragonforce to name another. There is more than one way to play the guitar :(

Herman Li was the perfect example

Now here's a good example of soul and skill at once

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIJ4zvmzJ8

There's SO MANY time signature changes throughout the song and lots of technical ability, and yet is also one of the most original and awesome compositions I've ever heard. Soul and skill, united.

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There's a couple different topics going on here. My two cents:

  • You can teach music theory, but you can't really teach enthusiasm or passion.
  • Music theory and proficiency at playing an instrument really aren't the same thing... theory can be grasped by the average student, but instrumental/vocal talent is partly innate and partly gained through repetition, i.e. practice.
  • Both solid theory knowledge (which I lack) and proficiency at playing an instrument (ditto, for the most part) can change the way you actually compose and present options that wouldn't be there otherwise. It's hard to compose a wildly impressive solo that you couldn't actually play, and through playing such material yourself you get ideas about how to write similar parts. Or so I've been told :-o
  • That being said, I'll explain my own personal stance, which may not be right for most people... or anyone. I've found that, even with my relatively thin theory knowledge and untrained keyboard playing, there are literally tons of arrangement options open to me for any given source material, and I can almost always do what I want to. I guess this is because, musically, I've never been drawn to forms or genres or artists that emphasize impressive, extended soloing. I can appreciate DT, etc., but I'm more about the concise, Zen-like melodic focus on a few key intervals that, if not just right, would ruin (imo) an arrangement idea. That aspect of arranging - not only knowing what you could potentially change in a melody (while keeping the soul intact) but favoring one approach over the other... that's something that all the theory in the world doesn't necessarily help with. You could call it passion or enthusiasm... I think I'd call it style.

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Herman Li was the perfect example

Now here's a good example of soul and skill at once

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIJ4zvmzJ8

There's SO MANY time signature changes throughout the song and losts of technical ability, and yet is also one of the most original and awesome compositions I've ever heard. Soul and skill, united.

Not bad, dream theater are awesome. I have a very different example of soul and skill, I think this is one of the best (and very different) examples of soul and skill in music.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JqM0NRUW7yI

EDIT : Oh and I have to say that DJP hit the nail on head imo.

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Ah, Joe Satriani. I've heard great things about him. Never actually got to hearing him though. This is a sexy song. Very 80's feel to it. Yes, that right there is passion. Much different, like you said. DT's a far more...how should I put it...random band. I could get into that song. I'll considering looking him up more. I'm pretty sure you like Steve Vai too, then?

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Hmm...but is using a synthesizer really difficult? No, noodling around and writing down what sounds nice is actual passion and writing ability, nothing to do with technical ability. Technical ability is being able to play really hard stuff. It could sound terrible but if it's hard to play, it's technical ability.

look up keith emerson on youtube, prove me wrong.

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Ah, Joe Satriani. I've heard great things about him. Never actually got to hearing him though. This is a sexy song. Very 80's feel to it. Yes, that right there is passion. Much different, like you said. DT's a far more...how should I put it...random band. I could get into that song. I'll considering looking him up more. I'm pretty sure you like Steve Vai too, then?

Surfing With the Alien = Greatest thing a human can do with aliens and a guitar.

Vai and Satch are both good examples of technical proficiency and musical theory intergrated with the passion for your music. Malmsteen is an amazing example of nothing but proficiency and theory. He's tallented, but he doesn't really care what he's doing.

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Ah, Joe Satriani. I've heard great things about him. Never actually got to hearing him though. This is a sexy song. Very 80's feel to it. Yes, that right there is passion. Much different, like you said. DT's a far more...how should I put it...random band. I could get into that song. I'll considering looking him up more. I'm pretty sure you like Steve Vai too, then?

Steve Vai is a lot more experimental than satch but satch is more commercial, you should look his music up, its very similar to video game music (his music would be perfect for racing games)

Surfing With the Alien = Greatest thing a human can do with aliens and a guitar.

Vai and Satch are both good examples of technical proficiency and musical theory intergrated with the passion for your music. Malmsteen is an amazing example of nothing but proficiency and theory. He's tallented, but he doesn't really care what he's doing.

Hmm... surfing with the alien has the hits, but his best effort is the extremist, brilliant music.

Malmsteen is also great, he created the neo-classical genre, but he is one the more show-offy guitarists, but I agree with the theory comment, malmsteems knowedge of scales is great.

However, Joe satch takes the award for technical theory knowedge, his knowedge of music theory, and scales simply outstripes basically every other guitarist I know of, not to mention the emotion and creative melodies he writes simply makes his music essential listening imo.

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He could so be in Dream Theater. Or Symphony X (there, happy now?)

Seriously, he's amazing.

And DarkeSword, haven't you ever had a song or musician you enjoyed so much that you wished everyone knew about them? You just had to share this song or musician with everybody? That's what a deep appreciation for music is. I'll outright admit I took it too far on a few occasions, most of which weren't supposed to be taken seriously to begin with (listening to a band is not an achievement, duh) but that's not the case in this thread. I'm not saying you don't appreciate music at all, I mean, you make music. But surely you've had that feeling before, at least once, and you know what I'm talking about.

Malmsteen is an amazing example of nothing but proficiency and theory. He's tallented, but he doesn't really care what he's doing.

He got kicked off of the G3 tour for being such a cocky prick, FYI. Although he is talented, he sure is full of himself.

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And DarkeSword, haven't you ever had a song or musician you enjoyed so much that you wished everyone knew about them? You just had to share this song or musician with everybody? That's what a deep appreciation for music is. I'll outright admit I took it too far on a few occasions, most of which weren't supposed to be taken seriously to begin with (listening to a band is not an achievement, duh) but that's not the case in this thread. I'm not saying you don't appreciate music at all, I mean, you make music. But surely you've had that feeling before, at least once, and you know what I'm talking about.

I have, but you already have it in your sig. No one else needs to hear/read it several times.

No offense to Dream Theater, John Petrucci is insane.

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He got kicked off of the G3 tour for being such a cocky prick, FYI. Although he is talented, he sure is full of himself.

He did? I didn't know that...

I do think that he is a little cocky, but I say in his defense, If you were as talented as him and did what he has done for rock music, I think most people would be. He may be cocky, but he is a great guitarist who has earned that right I guess. Or thats the way he sees it ;).

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He did? I didn't know that...

I do think that he is a little cocky, but I say in his defense, If you were as talented as him and did what he has done for rock music, I think most people would be. He may be cocky, but he is a great guitarist who has earned that right I guess. Or thats the way he sees it.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought that up, as I did hear it from a somewhat untrustworthy source. But he was on G3 only once and after that he was never back on, so there is evidence...sort've.

I wouldn't think I'd be the greatest guitarist ever and think I know everything. You've always got to be open to new things and hear the ideas of others instead of just passing them off as average joes. NEVER decide you know everything.

I just didn't want you to think I was hatin' on Dream Theater.

Even if you were, I would just ignore you. I've heard people here say the blasphemous phrase "their music is terrible." At that point you just don't care :\

On a side note, we're so off-topic. But reaching a conclusion was so easy we might as well be :)

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I wouldn't think I'd be the greatest guitarist ever and think I know everything. You've always got to be open to new things and hear the ideas of others instead of just passing them off as average joes. NEVER decide you know everything.

My personal opinion is the same as yours mate, music is only limited by your imagination there is always something new to learn :)

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My personal opinion is the same as yours mate, music is only limited by your imagination there is always something new to learn :)

SPEAKING of which...

You people hear me RANT about DT all the time, but I will never truly 100% think they are the best band out there. They're just the best band that I know of. If I ever find a band that makes better music than DT, I will cry :-o

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SPEAKING of which...

You people hear me RANT about DT all the time, but I will never truly 100% think they are the best band out there. They're just the best band that I know of. If I ever find a band that makes better music than DT, I will cry :-o

Yeah, and then you'd change your sig and start ranting about this new band (joke)

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Surfing With the Alien = Greatest thing a human can do with aliens and a guitar.

Vai and Satch are both good examples of technical proficiency and musical theory intergrated with the passion for your music. Malmsteen is an amazing example of nothing but proficiency and theory. He's tallented, but he doesn't really care what he's doing.

You know what? Please stop being such a gushy fanboy. You like DT, we get it. :|
Steve Vai is a lot more experimental than satch but satch is more commercial, you should look his music up, its very similar to video game music (his music would be perfect for racing games)

Hmm... surfing with the alien has the hits, but his best effort is the extremist, brilliant music.

Malmsteen is also great, he created the neo-classical genre, but he is one the more show-offy guitarists, but I agree with the theory comment, malmsteems knowedge of scales is great.

However, Joe satch takes the award for technical theory knowedge, his knowedge of music theory, and scales simply outstripes basically every other guitarist I know of, not to mention the emotion and creative melodies he writes simply makes his music essential listening imo.

Dammit! You guys beat me to Vai and his mentor!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp1fLW-DS8Q

No words can describe this song!

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which is more important.. well that obviously DEPENDS.. depends on the person and the type of music

but if you wanted to phrase the argument in more concrete terms.. what would i rather listen to.. 100% technical / 0 % soul.. or 100% soul / 0% technical... i'd probably pick the 100% technical

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