Liontamer Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Finally! This is the first remix I've finished since I sent you since my last submission, Purity. You might remember when I sent it that I was gushing about a new PC I'd just ordered.. well, this is actually the first track I've finished on the new machine, so for me it has extra significance. For the first time, ever, I didn't have to hesitate to add new elements to a project for fear of underruns. I can't describe how free and awesome it felt to just program whatever I wanted with reckless disregard for precious cpu cycles! This project definately wouldn't have been doable on my old computer, and yet I was only using about half of the horses under my hood. I don't want to seem like I'm bragging, nor do I want to seem like I'm gushing. It's just that now I can see that I don't have anything preventing me from jumping over that last hurdle and accomplishing everything I've ever wanted to, and it's got me really excited. But, enough of my life story! You're more interested in the remix. My submission is called "Through Time and Space", and it's a remix of the proper ending from Chrono Cross, where you use the 7th element to defeat Lavos and free Schala from the bonds of time. I'm not gonna say much about the remix, but I will say that its trance, its pretty unconventional for the genre, and I hope it has a couple of surprises for you. I've wanted to remix this song for a long time, but I also wanted to know that I could do it justice. Now, I can remove one of those "must do" remixes from my list! Please enjoy the song and we'll talk again once I've got another of those urgent remixes done. -abg / Shawn Overn Here's a link to a youtube of the source: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Chrono Cross Original Soundtrack - (313) "Life ~A Distant Promise~" There's too much direct sampling of the original game audio for me to pass this. The first :56 seconds of sampling was the only connection to the source, and took on a significant supporting role afterward. Direct sampling can be OK when it's used sparingly, but when it becomes integral to a significant portion of the track, then it's too much with regards to the standards. 2:20-3:45 was kosher. 3:46-5:08 used the sampled original again. If you'd consider icing that sampling, and subsequently rebuilding those parts with your own sounds and ideas, this would be all good. Right now though, it's a nice track that's outside the scope of the guidelines. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 There's too much direct sampling of the original game audio for me to pass this. The first :56 seconds of sampling was the only connection to the source, and took on a significant supporting role afterward. I don't agree with you there Oji. The direct sampling is used on top of an arranged version of the same passage but with an original sound. My point being it was not the only connection to the source at all. I think it could've been avoided or exchanged for an original sound playing the same thing and it's still borderline too much sampling but it isn't as bad as you make it sound The arrangement could still be improved. To have almost half the song as a build-up might not be a good idea. It seemed a tad repetitive, not horribly but a tad. Some more personalization of the source would also help this sound less repetitive, a change in chords or beats for example. Both these elements are quite static at the moment. I enjoyed the ending. Production-wise this is quite good although a bit cluttered. You use a lot of reverb-heavy synths with a long release and loads of mid/highmid content. Try EQing away some less important frequencies to make room for the important sounds. All in all, this needs a few more tweaks before it's passable. I recommend not using the game sample as it drags down the overall interpretation. Try with a bit more personalization and some better separation and this could be passed. NO(resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 I don't agree with you there Oji. The direct sampling is used on top of an arranged version of the same passage but with an original sound. My point being it was not the only connection to the source at all. I think it could've been avoided or exchanged for an original sound playing the same thing and it's still borderline too much sampling but it isn't as bad as you make it sound Definitely; I wrote that quickly and didn't edit it later, even though I caught onto that before I posted. As I also mentioned though, there was still too much direct audio sampling going on (nearly 2/3rds of the track), but we agreed on that. As far as the structure went, I was OK with it. The buildup was a little more than 1/3rd of the track, but the overall length of the track afforded it, and it's not as if the build was non sequitur with the source theme. The other criticisms, no issues there, though the sampling clearly put me off more than anything else. If we get a resub where that was scrapped and replaced with something created from the ground up, it would much more likely to make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Definitely; I wrote that quickly and didn't edit it later, even though I caught onto that before I posted. As I also mentioned though, there was still too much direct audio sampling going on (nearly 2/3rds of the track), but we agreed on that.As far as the structure went, I was OK with it. The buildup was a little more than 1/3rd of the track, but the overall length of the track afforded it, and it's not as if the build was non-sequitor with the source theme. The other criticisms, no issues there, though the sampling clearly put me off more than anything else. If we get a resub where that was scrapped and replaced with something created from the ground up, it would much more likely to make it. Lovely, then we understand, respect and cherish eachothers views and whatnot. <3 *BGC edit* Get a room already, guys. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palpable Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Was wondering what the hell you guys were talking about with direct sampling until I watched the Youtube clip. The section with the bell pad wasn't in the source file I had. Overall, I like the arrangement. I can't pinpoint any specific moments I really liked, but it was solidly put-together, had good energy and detail, and riffed on the source melodies nicely while adding lots of new components. I'm still a little unclear on our sampling policies, I'm afraid to say (largely because our standards don't say a lot about them). I tend to think as long as the sampling doesn't play too a big role and thereby make the song too conservative, it's kosher. In this song, it starts off very prominent but by the end of the intro is somewhat drowned out by the rest of instruments. To me, that's an acceptable usage. The melody handled by the piano in the original is there most of the time, handled by a synth, so even taking out the bell lead leaves you with a connected-enough arrangement. And there's plenty else going on there. I don't want to turn this into another debate thread. If everyone else feels the sampling is too much, I'll take that into account on future decisions, and we should consider updating the standards to add a line about keeping source sampling to a minimum. Right now all that's mentioned is to not take the original audio and add drums, which this song certainly doesn't. Back to the song. Thought the production was mixed a tad hot, the intro especially showing it. A more balanced sound would have been better, but I think this is fine in its current state. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Does anyone else think the source tune sounds like Jill's song "Red July"? Also, Vinnie's right in that the source and the Youtube clip don't line up. Best I can guess is that the chimes must be streamed audio. The psf collection I have contains a readme that states Known missing songs/problems with this PSF Collection----------------------------------------------------- Trk Issue --- ----- 101 - Time's Scar (streamed) 120 - Leaving The Body 2 - same as Dream's Creation (maybe changed by game events) 201 - Start of the Dream (streamed ?) 314 - Reminiscence - Feelings Not Erased 2 - same as Reminiscence - Feelings Not Erased (maybe changed by game events) 315 - Radical Dreamer - Without Taking the Jewel (streamed) So perhaps it's one of those. /shrugs. Anyway, I thought the remix itself kept reminding me of Flaming June: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZlLIEAiJR8 At any rate. I dunno, as far as the direct sampling thing goes, I'm kind of back to my position on "Foregone Rejuvenation" in that I don't really mind seeing as there's substantial enough processing as to alter the sound adequately to suit me, and thus thereby making it impossible to tell whether or not there's actual direct sampling going on, or if he's just emulated the original sound very accurately. I mean, if a source tune has a piano, and someone uses a piano in their remix, we don't get upset, so why should this be any different? Anyway, I also agree that 2:20 was a bit long of an intro. I realize the style typically merits such, but try to keep it a little more concise in the future. That being said, I really like the remix a lot, it's produced really well, I didn't hear any glaring issues at all, and the reverb is handled well--it seemed to avoid getting muddy despite as much as it had, and that says a lot. The drums and the bass didn't conflict, either. Production gets a thumbs up from me. I guess it boils down to arrangement. Let's see what I can figure out here: The bellchimes thing is definitely verbatim, all questions of direct sampling aside. That's not exactly a bad thing, as long as theres supportive counterpart writing and/or more substantial interpretation later on to compensate. The connection to the rest of the source (mainly the strings) has been adapted to synth pads mostly. And the piano arpeggio from the source is of course a synth arp in the remix. So all in all, I don't see how anyone could say there's not enough connection to the source at any given point. There's been several additional synth arps added by Shawn so that it's not strictly a cover. There's a bit of repetition, true, but again, I think it's a style thing. Trance remixes are always going to have that tendency. Sometimes, I think you have to look past it to a varying degree depending on the intended genre. I'm feeling sympathetic once again--the arrangement, while definitely nothing at all worth writing home about, is barely acceptable, IMO, but definitely could have been made a lot more solid were it either in a different key, and were the source connections not so entirely conspicuous. However, I've heard better, but I've also heard much worse. And the barely-barely-passing arrangement coupled with the solid production keeps this one just an inch across the line for me. YES (borderline) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vig Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I don't have an issue with direct sampling in principle, even extensive direct sampling, so long as it is done creatively. I feel like this track is more of an update. The first chunk of this arrangement is largely the same as the original with improved production. The second chunk is almost completely original save the chord progression. I don't think it would take a great deal of work to make this passable, but you've got to take the tune in your own direction more. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 It's a similar sound, but it's not sampled. I like this! The soundscape is really nice; big and airy without feeling messy. The sound really evolves nicely. Not a groundbreaking trance track, but it's the genre done right. YES~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHz Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm fine with that verbatim intro melody, it is a little bit different sounding and there's a lot of other source usage backing it up. The mix is pretty conservative overall up to 2:21. The arrangement gets better at that point, still a pretty straightforward adaptation but with some personal touches. Production is fine, I didn't think anything got too cluttered. The intro is kind of long, but only because after the meat of the track starts it's only a couple of minutes before it starts winding down. I think it would work great with an extended version of the mix, because right now it seems a bit unbalanced. This could go either way, but it sounds good enough and there's just enough in the arrangement to put it over the bar. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I think the production here is really nice. Reminds me of bLiNd or Jewbei, who have a similar sort of epic/progressive sound. The synths and drums aren't groundbreaking in tone, but they're polished and used very well. The intro is indeed very similar to the intro of the original, but I don't think it's directly sampled from the source; the rhythm and the sustain of the notes are different. Despite the fact that the arrangement is rather conservative overall, I think there is enough variation and original material to put this one over our bar. The harmony writing is varied and there are some new patterns to accompany the melody (which, to be fair, is probably the most conservative part). On a side note, while listening to both the remix and the original, I can't help note the similarity to FFX's "People of the North" which has a very similar progression and arpeggio pattern. All things considered, it's close, but I'm gonna go YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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