FaytxStay Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hi... This is uh.... My WIP dealing with a mix between Magus's theme [ Chrono Trigger ] and Seymour [ Final Fantasy X ]. I chose this song between one: The FF7+ Organ was screaming to be tampered with, two: I wanted to get the courage to submit something into OCR, 3: All of Magus's remixes sound too closely related and there are no Seymour remixes and 4: I'm actually looking for ALOT of advice or help on this for my further projects... http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/dift/Duet-of-The-Back-Mages---Re-edit-- This is my first determined WIP and chances are, I'll be hit with: ARRANGEMENT / INTERPRETATION Too liberal - not enough connections to the source (too much original writing) PRODUCTION Too loud Drums have too much energy Overcompressed (pumping/no dynamics) Mixing is muddy (eg. too many sounds in the same range) [DEFINTELY FOR LACK OF SKILL.] PERFORMANCE (live recorded audio/MIDI parts) Timing not tight enough STRUCTURE Lacks coherence overall (no "flow") Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) Abrupt ending PERSONAL COMMENTS [ I think I'm gonna enjoy this part.] Just about covers what I think. Hopefully there will be less. XD [ Or more >__> ] But I'm going to keep a possitive face on and wait for critizism while I play Cabal online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyGeN Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I'm listening to it now, and I like it quite a bit. I'm musically illiterate, so bear with me when I make this suggestion.. The four-on-the-floor dsh, dsh, dsh, dsh is great for a techno mix, and should stay. However, consider throwing a couple eighth-note beats in there or something, so it's more of a dsh, dsh, dsh, dsh-d-dsh, dsh, dsh... you kinda get what I mean? Find a way to keep the beat there without having it get repetative. Someone else rephrase this better, partly for my own education. Cheers. But yeah, I like this. I'm keeping this WIP until you post a new one. edit: I want to touch upon a few of your projected gripes, because I'd hate to see you fuck this great track up when it's already quite brilliant. ARRANGEMENT / INTERPRETATION Too liberal, I highly disagree. I'm not familiar with Seymour, but I can clearly hear Magus at points. People here love original work added to the mix. PRODUCTION Too loud, there's no such thing. So long as you aren't clipping, you are perfectly fine. This site needs more loud mixes. Drums have too much energy, it's techno. The beat is supposed to be powerful. I disagree here too. STRUCTURE Lacks coherence overall (no "flow") it does jump around a bit. If you can find a slick way to move into another segment, go for it. Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) NO, PLEASE. I hate it when a loud, energy-pumping track blue-balls me by changing its sound completely. Keep it energetic throughout. Abrupt ending It is a little abrupt. Some resolve at the end would be cool, but please do it in minor key. I've heard mixes that were predominantly in minor, and the piece ends with major-key resolve. It destroys the mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaytxStay Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Ahhh, I see.... Well, For now, I can just fix the flow and ending very quickly before digging into it, and I'll send a modded WIP. ^__^ Thanks for criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplinterOfChaos Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 This is my first determined WIP and chances are, I'll be hit with: Too loud Drums have too much energy Inversely, I believe the drums need more energy and a really loud climax wouldn't be too bad. Overcompressed (pumping/no dynamics) Mixing is muddy (eg. too many sounds in the same range) [DEFINTELY FOR LACK OF SKILL.] Yeah, pretty much. I hope you'll get a little advice on that, here. PERFORMANCE (live recorded audio/MIDI parts) Timing not tight enough I'm more worried about some clashing between 0:30 and 0:47. STRUCTURE Lacks coherence overall (no "flow") Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) Abrupt ending Maybe. I like just grooving to messy rock, but it does tend to carry on a while without carrying anywhere. But, the soundscape wasn't too static for me. More dynamics would be nice, though. PERSONAL COMMENTS [ I think I'm gonna enjoy this part.] I can't think of anything personal to say ... I like your haircut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaytxStay Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 Hmmm.... Where can I learn about sound separation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 No source link, no soruce comment. I do recognize the CT track. I hear compression in the 0:32-0:48 section, other places as well. Not good. Might be clashing too, but the compression is far more annoying to me. You need some serious sound separation. It's done by panning and EQ, tho delay, reverb, and volume play a role here as well. Basically, each important element of the track needs its own space, so when two tracks have occupying the same frequency range, you gotta drop the main frequencies they have in common on one of them to get the mix to sound more clear. Your your low-mids are pretty muddy, so I suggest you start there. Drums are fine... or they will be, once the other tracks have been cleaned up. I think. Too early to say. Guitars could use a bit less distortion to be more clear. They sound mostly like a noise carpet now. Progression isn't as haphazard as it might sound. Cleaning up the mix should help you there too. You know, I could just sum this up as: "you have problems. mix better. they might go away." Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyGeN Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 For my own education, what does hearing "compression" mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 It's when one or several tracks duck under another. If you listen to how the bass drum interacts with the other instruments 0:32-0:48, that's where it's easiest to hear, but it does go on. Compression is a good thing, but not when you can hear it. The bass drum is too loud, so when it hits, the compressor pulls down the volume of the whole track. It's easily solved by using a multiband compressor. If you don't compress stuff that's too loud, you get clipping, which isn't good either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 ack yes, the tracks are super muddified. Mainly its the off beat where the muddiness comes in the worst. So it might be some funky side-chaining, or the bass is too loud. Also the lead needs more support, i.e. more meaty chords and the rhythm needs to come out more. The direct sampling of the games (i.e. Magus/zombie sound & teleporting sounds), the J's might not like, but I like it ^^. The solo/lead IS very well done though. Very nice. BUT Tte guitars sound like they're behind a closet. They need more presence/better quality, without causing mud I wish I knew more of how to critique this, but it's definitely not terrible by any means. It isn't OCR savvy either =(. It's a pain and I should know from firsthand experience. At least you have a good sense of direction though; that matters a lot (so says the J's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenz Drake Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Magus and Seymour combined track.. I like that idea.... a lot. I'm listening to your track now and I can't give a full potential opinion to you because I'm learning music with bLiNd.... but I really think you got something going. The drums don't sound loud to me and I hear Magus and Seymour clearly. Is that... Seymour Battle, though? Sounds like it to me, but maybe I'm wrong. The Seymour tracks all sound very similar to one another so I'm just double checking. Another reason why I am asking is because Seymour Battle is my favorite track in the whole FFX OST. Anyway yeah, don't give up. I REALLY dig this track and you should work at improving it... You should definitely make this track a kind of 'in your face' OC ReMix. I love those. I, too, will keep this track until you got an updated version. Oh, and you should make it longer... like at least 4+ mins. hehe P.S. I'm glad someone is working with a Seymour track... it was about time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaytxStay Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Blind? He's an excellent artist. My favorite song of his was Jenova Celestial. But yes, I will keep working on this even though my style is a bit... Awkward... It is the Seymour battle song though, and I'm glad you picked that up, because NOONE knew what that was... - sighs - I actually wish to collaborate on someone with this but I need to work out the big kinks like overcompression and such, and as the last guy said, "closet guitar". XD Anyways, I'm glad that everyone is saying that this has potential, and I'll try my hardest not to dissapoint everyone. Is muddy another term for overcompression? Anyways, I'll work on that and extend the song and maybe remove some Chrono trigger sound effects. XD [ Although, I personally like the laugh at the end. ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Blind? He's an excellent artist. My favorite song of his was Jenova Celestial. But yes, I will keep working on this even though my style is a bit... Awkward... It is the Seymour battle song though, and I'm glad you picked that up, because NOONE knew what that was... - sighs - I actually wish to collaborate on someone with this but I need to work out the big kinks like overcompression and such, and as the last guy said, "closet guitar". XDAnyways, I'm glad that everyone is saying that this has potential, and I'll try my hardest not to dissapoint everyone. Is muddy another term for overcompression? Anyways, I'll work on that and extend the song and maybe remove some Chrono trigger sound effects. XD [ Although, I personally like the laugh at the end. ] wow you think your style's awkward, then check some of my stuff out. Although I am striving to be less "nonsensical". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XZero Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I like the Magus laugh at the end. The rest of it is pretty good. I can definitely make out both source tracks here, and I think you did a nice job mixing. No really constructive stuff to add here; just wanted to say that I like it thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Is muddy another term for overcompression? It's not. Compression has to do with little drops in the volume to cover really loud peaks. Muddy is when the frequencies or tracks in the mix aren't balanced. If you have a bass and a pad that's too loud you can't hear the stuff in the higher frequency ranges. Or, if you had a shrill lead and dropped the high frequencies on the master. Muddy is when there's too much mids/lows and not enough high; it's when the mix isn't clear. In well mixed music you can hear pretty much any element in it even tho there can be a lot going on. This is done by giving every element it's own area in the frequency range. As an example, bass can cover the low range except for where the kick is, pad can cover the low-mid range but have it's low range dropped so it doesn't step on the bass, lead gets the 500-2000Hz range with the lower parts dropped a bit, the background melody gets the 500-1000Hz range, snare is given a narrow space at around 200Hz but is also loud enough to punch through everything, crash gets the 2000Hz+, hihats 4000Hz+... This way, all the elements has their own place in the frequency range. (note: it's an example where I'm just going by memory, the actual numbers might be completely useless in your mix) Then there's also panning, reverb and delay, and of course, the arrangement, which can give you room for more tracks. Guitars, for example, sound pretty good when there's two of them, hardpanned opposite each other. If you're going for a "live" sounding mix, you should pan the instruments as they'd be in a live setting, etc.. The easiest way to deal with mud is still to decide where each track belongs in the frequency range, EQ it accordingly, and then slap a multiband compressor and/or EQ on the master and take care of the frequency balance there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenz Drake Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Blind? He's an excellent artist. My favorite song of his was Jenova Celestial. But yes, I will keep working on this even though my style is a bit... Awkward... It is the Seymour battle song though, and I'm glad you picked that up, because NOONE knew what that was... - sighs - I actually wish to collaborate on someone with this but I need to work out the big kinks like overcompression and such, and as the last guy said, "closet guitar". XDAnyways, I'm glad that everyone is saying that this has potential, and I'll try my hardest not to dissapoint everyone. Is muddy another term for overcompression? Anyways, I'll work on that and extend the song and maybe remove some Chrono trigger sound effects. XD [ Although, I personally like the laugh at the end. ] OMG NO, DO NOT REMOVE THE LAUGH! I LOVE THAT! haha And yeah... Dang, I knew it was Seymour Battle! haha Please keep that too. I noticed on this thread no one noticed the Seymour Battle track... Which is tragic. It's an inspiring track. You say someone to collab with? I could ask bLiNd... but he's got 13 tracks to finish and I take his time up a lot. haha I'll ask anyway though... Still, I suggest someone like Sixto Sounds to do guitar work. That guy is brilliant at it. :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenz Drake Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 wow you think your style's awkward, then check some of my stuff out. Although I am striving to be less "nonsensical". I agree with ya on him thinking his style is kind of awkward. It's not at all. To me anyway... I really like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenz Drake Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 OMG, getting off topic here..sorry... You have my birthday, Fayt! XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I agree with ya on him thinking his style is kind of awkward. It's not at all. To me anyway... I really like it! Er I'm not quite following you (as in, who is the person who you consider to be not awkward here??). BUT I am born on May as well, though the 4th. lol. =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaytxStay Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Wow, while I've been working on it, its seems you all have bundled together and got off topic.Yeah, I do wish to work on this with someone, but I use FL8 so its a little different. I will not be taking out the authentic laugh and I will make it a little longer, wish I could work on it today, but I have to drive to Atlanta to visit someone. Anyways, I'm learning how to fix overcompression and I'm enjoying my work more... One thing though... I'm also woring on a new project from Super Mario Land and ???? [ Next crazy idea will come up. Should be Final Fantasy ] as well as doing a short demo mix of FF7 Battle theme/FF9 Boss theme/ FF7 Jenova [ Yes, it all fits together somehow.. ] Anyways, I'll have another WiP out soon. Rawr!!! :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZealPath Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 I actually meant to comment on this about a week ago but got sidetracked. Definitely a fan of what you have going here, the intro in particular is great and really sets the tone for this merger since it essentially takes the into from Magus's theme then takes an upbeat drum similar to the intro to Seymour Battle and it goes from there. I can definitely hear attempts to capture the tunes of both Magus and Seymour Battle throughout the rest of the song as well, the only problem is, like many have said by now, at several points during the song it sounds like too much is going on in one space. I also like the little CT sound sample from Magus' castle at the end, definitely a nice touch. I hope you stick with this and clean up the middle a little bit because as far as mergers go, I generally don't like them but really feel like you've nailed that part of it. Side note: Seymour Battle is one of my favorite FF battle songs ever, always felt like it was much more epic than the battle it is actually used in in FFX, and it's nice to see it get some love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaytxStay Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Heya guys... My stupid harddrive finally gave up, and now is no longer useful, so I had to get a new computer... I have to restart the project, so it's gonna take a little time.. Bear with me here... - sighs - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplinterOfChaos Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Uck, I've been there. I'm a writer. When my harddrive crashed, I lost over 20 writings...3 or 4 good ones XP. Good luck with the reconstruction. Build things newly instead of copying the old memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyGeN Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I figured I should jump back in here and say your WIP is still on my desktop (and playing right now). So, please do continue your work on this one. I eagerly await an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireSlash Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 If your harddrive was a Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 (11th gen) drive, Seagate may do data recovery on it for free. There is also some buzz about the 7100.11s having the same flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenz Drake Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You got support from me too. Sorry to hear about your hard drive (I know how it feels.. lost 250 gigs of 10 years worth of stuff....) \: but I still have your WIP and still waiting on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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