Hy Bound Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yeah, lack of 64bit is ridiculous across the board. I guess Sonar and REAPER are leading the pack in that area. Anyway, Hy, if you saw me work in FL Studio you'd see what I mean about ridicluously awesome workflow. Maybe I'll make a video today... Right back atcha with ableton. Once you memorize the hot keys you blaze through the UI like nothing else. I thought Reason was quick but I seriously fly through making 8-track loops... maybe 15 minutes including all of the initial-tweaking. Now if only that would help me with my writer's block. Seriously though, I think it really depends on what you're used to. I was seriously considering switching to Pro Tools recently and couldn't get over the fact that its based only on pop-up windows. I like Ableton's sexy look and intigrated UI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yeah, lack of 64bit is ridiculous across the board. I guess Sonar and REAPER are leading the pack in that area. Anyway, Hy, if you saw me work in FL Studio you'd see what I mean about ridicluously awesome workflow. Maybe I'll make a video today... Do it, seriously! It's comparing apples to oranges, and we've all got the program we're using now anyways, so arguing is pointless but I've actually learned a lot about ableton from the topic. I think I'm gonna reinstall ableton live lite right now and give it another quick twice over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hy Bound Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 You really should make a video... I actually would find it interesting. I've been searching through FL's site and I like some of their features a lot. I still don't think I'm going to switch, but I'l be interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I've never had any latency issues with ASIO drivers. Sorry, I guess I need to clarify. For one, in any live environment involving a computer, you're 99% likely using a laptop. So you can't count on any high-end desktop class soundcards. The supposed solution for PC laptops? ASIO4All, which is meant to give ASIO-class responsiveness to PC laptops. That is what I could never get to work effectively. Ever since I went Mac, that's all become a thing of the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Laptops can have "high class" soundcards in PCMCIA format or USB/firewire, so what you're saying doesn't make any sense... $100 soundcards can have native ASIO drivers, even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sole Signal Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Anyway, Hy, if you saw me work in FL Studio you'd see what I mean about ridiculously awesome workflow. Not trying to derail this thread away from Live anymore that it already has been, but this is the absolute truth. Clicking quickly through dozens of drum samples, dropping them into sampler channels, dropping loops in, creating an "A" drum pattern, ctrl+shifting+C to create an identical "B" drum pattern, and then shifting kick drum and snare hits on the fly in "B" to develop an evolving breakbeat takes literally seconds. I can't think of anything, short of my own tendency to have too many unhelpfully labeled patterns spread out all over the playlist, that gets in my way in the workflow. With that said, I really haven't tried Live (v 4.15 demo with EMU 0404!) as much as I would have liked. I just watched that video avaris linked to and it looks awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 One thing that I just noticed here with the announcement of Live 8 is that even though FL continues to get new versions, they don't really do any huge changes like the other companies do. Maybe they have a new integrated plugin or changed the coding on something or other, but they don't need to do anything awesome because they don't need to convince their audience to upgrade, the upgrade is free. Without the need to look impressive with each new version the updates tend to be minor, uninspiring, and unimpressive at the time. However each update slowly builds up a stronger workstation. For example Edison was a fairly large update but really it's just a plugin for working with .wav's, they updated the slicer with slicex, which was a moderate upgrade in that area, slowly it's getting better, but without any facebreaking advertisements of groundbreaking new software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vagrance Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 EDIT: Never mind, whatever, can we stop talking about FLStudio now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hy Bound Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Not trying to derail this thread away from Live anymore that it already has been, but this is the absolute truth. Clicking quickly through dozens of drum samples, dropping them into sampler channels, dropping loops in, creating an "A" drum pattern, ctrl+shifting+C to create an identical "B" drum pattern, and then shifting kick drum and snare hits on the fly in "B" to develop an evolving breakbeat takes literally seconds. I can't think of anything, short of my own tendency to have too many unhelpfully labeled patterns spread out all over the playlist, that gets in my way in the workflow.With that said, I really haven't tried Live (v 4.15 demo with EMU 0404!) as much as I would have liked. I just watched that video avaris linked to and it looks awesome! I'd hate to try and continue the debate, but that sounds exactly like what you would have to do in Live... I'd post a video, but I have no idea how to make a screenshot-based video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sole Signal Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Not debating, just commenting. I know several people that use ableton to great effect. I watched a few vids about it and would like to learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'd post a video, but I have no idea how to make a screenshot-based video. On a Mac, it's right here. On a PC, I suppose Zircon can tell you. Laptops can have "high class" soundcards in PCMCIA format or USB/firewire, so what you're saying doesn't make any sense... $100 soundcards can have native ASIO drivers, even. I guess I can't directly respond since I've never worked with those. However, I have worked with the MBox, which I'm guessing is somewhat similar. And god did I have an annoying time with that. The problem is that I never knew which program was going to output audio where, and I had to always ensure the audio busses on each track were sending correctly. As for the cards themselves, I don't know how consistently such soundcards perform in practice, but at least in theory I'd imagine that the lower transfer rate of USB/Firewire (as opposed to the built-in soundcard on the frontside bus) could pose more risk. But then again, I have a Duet which interfaces through Firewire and I've had no problems so far. So is it possible to get low-latency audio on a PC laptop? I'm certain. But at least the way I see it, I think Macs are better for it for the same reasons many people will say: it's straightforward, it's simple, and it works. Moreso on all counts than the PC laptop I used to own, anyway. We all know no one is going to convince anyone else to switch to anything. But that's not really what I see this to be about. We're not spinning our wheels here; we're revealing our preferences, workflows, likes and dislikes and the reasons behind them. As Hy Bound said, we'll keep doing things the way we're doing them, but we'll all learn something at the same time. And that's good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaris Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 OK so supposedly there are midi improvements in Live 8 but they haven't released a spec sheet yet. A cool feature when working with a drum kit is the collapse feature feature where the piano roll will only show the note lanes where that you have notes on already. Which makes a for a pseudo drum sequencer type feel. As a former FL user; the features of dragging and dropping samples is almost exactly the same. In Live 7 and beyond creating the drum rack would suffice as a similar method to FL's built-in step-sequencer. Supposedly with the new Live, or maybe this is with 7 as well, you can view multiple midi notes from different regions at the same time. Basically a must for working on complicated arrangements. Have to agree with Zircon on the PRV edting type possibilities. It's just plain stupid more devs do not hop on the idea. Frankly the new warping mode looks AWESOME. Hopefully the Max/MSP side accepts side-chaining, this would make for some AWESOME phase vocoder type effects that sound pretty good in MSP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't know FL Studio well (especially now that I'm a Machead), but I would conjecture that FL Studio's lack of a Mac version is also a roadblock for its perception as a program to use live. QFE, and not just on the live level. There's a good chance I'll never use it at all because Image Line has no interest in releasing a Mac version. Even with an intel Mac, I could use parallel with Windows XP to get it, but it's not worth it. If IL decided to make a Mac version, I'd pick it up immediately! This has been brought up lots on the Image Line forums. It's not that there's no interest in doing a Mac version, it's that the program is writen in Delphi, which apparently is impossible to convert. Delphi is also the current roadblock for there ever being a 64-bit version of FL. So the issue is not the programmers (unless you expect them to rebuild the program from scratch) but the code it's written in. I for one am crossing my fingers that at some point in the near future that Delphi will be cross-platform as well as 64-bit. At any rate, carry on fellas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 (unless you expect them to rebuild the program from scratch) A tall order? No question. But in software development you have to weigh that versus the gained longevity and versatility of the program. This is precisely what several companies have done when they've realized they've reached programmatic limitations. Apple, Cycling74, Animusic, and many others have all rebuilt their products from the ground up and have, in the end, been far better for it. Plus, Delphi? It's a derivative of Pascal. Time to move on, people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 They're not going to reprogram FL from the ground up. They'd rather make a new program entirely than remake FL, which makes a lot of sense. They're doing well enough without the Mac market, anyway, probably thanks to people like me and Jimmy that tirelessly use it and buy addons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 a program that is already ridiculously popular you're such a fanboy. too bad i just saw this thread, i can't spam it now...it's too old. BTW PLAY CATAN WITH ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaris Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 I will try to see if can get through on the university network...RIGHT NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 David Zicarelli's history and opinion of Max for Live. Some capabilitis of Max for Live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgx Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Live 8 does look awesome, yessir. Max for Live looks hot, though it is an extra cost above the regular update, right? I'd be interested, but I've got Reaktor and I'm tired of spending money at the moment . I've used Max before, with mostly the Jitter video manipulation stuff. Live is going to be THE SHIT for VJ's when this comes out. I'm not a VJ though. Also, if I ever want to do live shows, I'm getting that Akai. Holy crap that looks awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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