Lost: The Final Season

[Lemonectric]

OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD.

Agreed.

-Even more interesting than people on the flight is the people that we failed to see on the flight? Off of the top of my head: Michael, Walt, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Eko, Libby and probably a bunch of others. It's possible that they just weren't featured because they were unable to get the actors, or something else is going on here.

Well, Shannon was definitely not on the plane. Some of the other changes were interesting, too--Hurley saying nothing bad ever happens to him, Jack's dad not being on the plane. I guess the numbers are no longer cursed? Not sure about the significance of Jack's and Shannon's situations.

-Locke and Boone talking to each other on the plane was cool too. Boone telling Locke "I'm staying with you if this thing goes down" was ironic as well...since he did stay with Locke on the island and it ended up killing him. And maybe I'm just not remembering my season one, but what is Boone talking about with Shannon being in a relationship that she didn't want out of? Is this new, or am I forgetting something.

Originally, Boone went to Australia to get Shannon away from this boyfriend guy who was beating her up. Shannon made Boone leave, Boone tried bribing her boyfriend, I can't remember exactly what happened, but Shannon came to Boone's hotel room and they had some hot step-brother-on-step-sister action and she went on the plane with him. So something must have changed in this new timeline.

[BooDidley7]

I gotta say, I was really disappointed by last night's premiere. Lost usually has great season premieres and finales, but last night felt like a bit of a drag.

To me it's possible that the alternate plane sequence and landing, may very well be ending of the show. I could be wrong. But to think everything over the last 5 seasons could be all for naught kinda rubs me the wrong way. If this is the case, the show might find a way to put this a greater context, and in sense itself it's kinda cool, but seeing how so many of these characters grew and evolved and then to lose it all, well, would feel pretty empty.

The other theory is that Desmond is time traveling somehow, to achieve exactly what, I can't say at this point, but there's really no logical reason he should be on that plane, at least as a casual passenger, and probably wasn't.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the scenes with Ben and Evil Locke. Jack, Sawyer, Kate, etc. were ok. But man, I really hated most of those airplane/airport scenes, if only because we've mostly already seen these sides of these characters in one way or another. Sure, some things have changed, Hugo and Shannon, Charlie, but the Kate fugitive stuff bored the hell out me.

Although I do wonder, how did Hugo win the lotto, if the island was sunk, and the 'numbers' would've never existed... Unless it was a different lotto.

[Lemonectric]

To me it's possible that the alternate plane sequence and landing, may very well be ending of the show. I could be wrong. But to think everything over the last 5 seasons could be all for naught kinda rubs me the wrong way. If this is the case, the show might find a way to put this a greater context, and in sense itself it's kinda cool, but seeing how so many of these characters grew and evolved and then to lose it all, well, would feel pretty empty.

I had the same feeling at first, and I was so glad that the show didn't go completely in that direction. I did enjoy seeing them meet each other differently, but yeah, the airport scenes were not particularly revealing or exciting besides "aahh split timeline."

Although I do wonder, how did Hugo win the lotto, if the island was sunk, and the 'numbers' would've never existed... Unless it was a different lotto.

I'd forgotten about how he heard the numbers. A guy in the mental hospital who'd heard a transmission while in the Navy, right? Yeah, he must have won with different numbers.

[Global-Trance]

First off the symbol in the guitar case is the Ankh. Has a lot of ties to immortality. Read up!

Also below stuff I posted about on another forum. A lot of similarities to what has been posted but some not:

A few peculiar things I am keeping huge tabs on about this episode and the rest of the season...

1.) In season 1, Cindy the flight attendant gives Jack two drinks. In Alternate 2004, Cindy gives Jack just one. Perhaps he only gets one because he is no longer meant to use two alcoholic shots for medical purposes?

2.) In season 1, Rose has problems with the turbulence. In Alternate 2004, Jack has a problem with the turbulence. Their interaction is now completely switched.

3.) Jack's blood mark on his neck. How he got it is yet to be revealed and may have resulted from something big from the original timeline... or perhaps a real reset may occur down the line?

4.) Charlie states he "was supposed to die" after being resuscitated. Nice multiple meanings there.

5.) Desmond is on this plane? Wait what he just kinda disappeared from everyone's sight? Interesting to note... no Michael, Walt, OR Shannon!

6.) Christian Shephard's body is missing. AGAIN. The wording is ambiguous and the tone makes it feel like it was more than just misplaced...

7.) Sun and Jin are not married in Alternate 2004. After Jin is taken aside after the bag search in the airport, Sun is addressed as Ms. Paik... not Mrs. Kwon. This was freaking subtle.

8.) SMOKE MONSTER IDENTITY FINALLY CONFIRMED AS JACOB'S NEMESIS. I'm glad they got that answer out of the way.

9.) Original 2007 storyline is somewhat straight forward. I had a feeling the detonation of the nuke would send them back to 2007 or create a new timeline ever since the end of season 5... THEY DID BOTH. AWESOME. *hip-thrust*

10.) Spring of Life in the Temple. This answers the question of how young Benjamin Linus was revived from the gunshot. Also I'm glad they finally revealed the Temple after it's first mention in the end of Season 3. Perhaps the "Magic Box", Benjamin Linus mentioned in mid-season 3 is this spring or perhaps something else in the Temple. Also Sayid was brought back to life with this... though he almost died. What is so important about Sayid that if was dead that everyone would be in danger? And... how does a Spring of Life get so dirty anyways?

11.) Smoke Monster / Jacob's Nemesis / New Locke just wants one thing... to go home? Why can't he go home? Where is it? WHAT IS HE AND JACOB ANYWAYS?

12.) Richard is referred to have had "chains" by Jacob's Nemesis / New Locke... what?

All in all, the two hour premiere was FANTASTIC. If you've stuck with LOST this long, this alternate timeline shouldn't be too hard to grasp. If they open up the season with information overload, there will just be even more down the road and these answers are ones we've been waiting for all this time... now if they'll only tell us who did the Dharma Food Drop in season 2...

I'd like to comment about not seeing Eko and Ana Lucia and such... they were in the tail section of the plane so arguably we didn't see them because we didn't get to see the back of the plane very much. I think they're going to pull a Chrono Cross here...

There's something not quite right with the new Alternate 2004... things will play out as they should.

[Palpable]

I was ambivalent about the premiere. I loved that they solved a few mysteries for us in a way that wasn't too expository, and the story seems to be taking some real direction with the fake Locke trying to get home. I wonder if the island is a prison for him, and he was held there by Jacob. Seems like things are shaping up nicely for a showdown between fake Locke and the Others (plus Jack, Kate, et al).

But the alternate timeline stuff seems like it could be a drag that takes away momentum from the main story. I didn't care about it that much, though I think it will eventually dovetail into the other timeline (just like how the flash forwards eventually did, which ALSO didn't hold my interest until I knew they were going back to the island). Overall, some good, some bad. I am optimistic that the writers know what they're doing.

[Makai]

I'm looking forward to the new flashbacks/flashforwards - a look into what could have been had the plane not crashed on the island.

[ZealPath]

I found it interesting that they basically decided to do both of the things a lot of people predicted could happen. How the alternate non-crash timeline will tie into the "present" timeline seems to be the primary question of the season.

So part of the smoke monster is out of the bag, which is huge for anyone who's been watching from the beginning! We still don't REALLY know who this guy is though (Jacob's nemesis is hardly a conclusive answer since we don't really know who that is either, only that they exist).

Now just for fun, to take some of what GT said and put my spin on it:

10.) Spring of Life in the Temple. This answers the question of how young Benjamin Linus was revived from the gunshot. Also I'm glad they finally revealed the Temple after it's first mention in the end of Season 3. Perhaps the "Magic Box", Benjamin Linus mentioned in mid-season 3 is this spring or perhaps something else in the Temple. Also Sayid was brought back to life with this... though he almost died. What is so important about Sayid that if was dead that everyone would be in danger? And... how does a Spring of Life get so dirty anyways?

Since you mentioned this, I couldn't help but think it's interesting that if the spring in the temple revived young Ben, it is now reviving the person who shot him in Sayid.

12.) Richard is referred to have had "chains" by Jacob's Nemesis / New Locke... what?

My brother loves the theory that Richard was a member of the crew of the Black Rock, maybe a prisoner (we saw the chained prisoners in the ship in that one episode). That's the first thing that came to my mind when that line was said, but it could mean a lot of things.

[Alexis]

Allright, I think I've thought through my theory enough to the point where it makes sense - to me at least.

The gist of it is that we're dealing with two different timelines because at the same moment the Juliet hit the bomb, Widmore was busy turning the wheel. (I'm guessing Widmore because we know he turned the wheel at some point, and why not have him turn it when he believes the mother of his unborn son is off to detonate a bomb? Perhaps he thinks by turning the wheel he can save her.)

Both events happened, and both had an effect. When the wheel was turned it moved the island and the losties back to where they belong in the present. The bomb also detonated, which somehow caused a different chain of events to occur starting in 1977 leading up to the island sinking and the losties never crashing.

Now here's the important thing about my theory. I don't believe that one of these is some kind of alternate reality. I belive that both story lines are real, and that they are happening next to each other. I also think, that if we're patient, we might see them tie the two worlds back together. Basically it would look something like this

This "Event X" would be something that the losties do in order to merge the two timelines back together.

Am I making any kind of sense?

[BooDidley7]

But the alternate timeline stuff seems like it could be a drag that takes away momentum from the main story.

Yes exactly! Momentum. Every time the premiere started to build some, it cut away to the plane stuff.

The gist of it is that we're dealing with two different timelines because at the same moment the Juliet hit the bomb' date=' Widmore was busy turning the wheel. (I'm guessing Widmore because we know he turned the wheel at some point, and why not have him turn it when he believes the mother of his unborn son is off to detonate a bomb? Perhaps he thinks by turning the wheel he can save her.)

Both events happened, and both had an effect. When the wheel was turned it moved the island and the losties back to where they belong in the present. The bomb also detonated, which somehow caused a different chain of events to occur starting in 1977 leading up to the island sinking and the losties never crashing.

Now here's the important thing about my theory. I don't believe that one of these is some kind of alternate reality. I belive that both story lines are real, and that they are happening next to each other. I also think, that if we're patient, we might see them tie the two worlds back together. Basically it would look something like this

This "Event X" would be something that the losties do in order to merge the two timelines back together.

Am I making any kind of sense? [/quote']

Did I completely forget Widmore was turning the wheel, or is that just speculation?

I don't think turning the wheel would have any impact on the detonation of the bomb itself, as it's on the island and turning the wheel apparently moves the island's place in time or position or something. It's not really clear, but the point is, the bomb probably wouldn't have been directly affected by the wheel's turning, as far as I can see.

We should recall, I think it was the end of Season 2 when they blew up the hatch, there was some sort of radioactive symbols beneath the hatch when Desmond went down and turned the key. I think it's possible that Juliet didn't actually detonate the bomb, but damaged it just enough so that the hatch was modified to contain it. The white flash was a time jump. Either that or Jacob or Smokey, or something stopped the blast. A nuclear blast would've left a huge crater and the radiation would've contaminated a large portion of the island. We see nothing to suggest either has happened after they travel.

The idea of parallel, simultaneous timelines is possible, albeit unlikely. It's hard to say because the show tried to establish that history can't be changed, and then Farraday changed his mind, and was killed as history had already run.

I really think whatever we saw on the plane has to be a severe flashforward (the end), or flashback (somehow before Jacob and Smokey started messing up everyone's lives, assuming they're from the future (or something), unless it's some kinda of attempt of time traveling Desmond to somehow fix everything. It's almost useless to go crazy speculating, but I guess kinda fun.

The other reason I don't think there's simultaneous, multiple timelines, is that, that's pretty much the crux or what Fringe is doing now, and since J.J. Abrams and Bad Robot are involved in both, it'd be kinda weird to be copying entire plot threads between two shows. Although, if anyone saw Star Trek, maybe alternate timelines is something they really like writing about...

[Navi]

As much as I love this show, the amount of slow motion, emotion milking shots in the premiere was almost too much to handle.

That much being said, I didn't notice that Sun and Jin were not married...that was underplayed as all hell. Good ear, GT!

[q-pa]

I loved the little subtle differences in both realities. They make me think that neither one is quite what we think it is (that is, one where the bomb worked and one without). I'm with BooDidley7 and GT on that one.

Connecting some dots...:

:arrow:So the Smoke Monster is Jacob's nemesis/"Man in Black"/Essau/whathaveyou and can take on the appearance of dead people (as seen by Alex's appearance last year). So does that mean that the manifestations of Jack's father, Kate's horse, Hurley's friend and JACOB HIMSELF in this episode were all its doing as well? Does he have to "see" a dead person before he can take on their form? What does that bode for Jack's father's body not being on the plane?

Some people said that a living Sayid is now a creation of the Smoke Monster. But we don't know if it can inhabit living people yet. Though it could have conceivably dragged him off and replaced him...

:arrow:Someone also pointed out the ash that was surrounding Jacob's Cabin. That makes sense now as a way to keep the Smoke Monster out, as seen in that pretty-epic battle in the Foot of the Statue. Is the Cabin his "home?"

And speaking of the Foot of the Statue, Fake Locke--"Mocke"--said that they (the people with the guns) were there to capture him. So who placed them on that other plane? Who's pulling the strings with that?

Did anyone else notice that other passengers on the plane were now servants of the Temple? Not just the flight attendant. And is it just me or did the leader guy look suspiciously like Dr. Chang?

Another thing: Why wasn't Jacob's body seen burning in the fire?

Yes exactly! Momentum. Every time the premiere started to build some, it cut away to the plane stuff.

I don't know. I discovered pretty early on that something wasn't quite right, then I was interested.

[Global-Trance]

I've watched the episodes of Season 5 at least twice and there's no mention of wheel turning by Widmore. Looking into a handful of theories it seems that is only speculation and yet to be confirmed.

Smoke Monster is definitely a lot of things... but whether it's Jack's father or not is in question. Perhaps at one point it was... in Season 1 the appearances of Jack's father on the online are cold and emotionless... however the way we see him now is much different. Different clothes, completely different personality.

As for the bomb going off or not, I think that actually did happen. Remember in season 2 in the hatch there was a large thick cement wall separating people and a large source of magnetism. Sayid commented the last time he saw this much cement was in Chernobyl, most likely referencing the most devastating nuclear reactor disaster in the history of man. Most likely the bomb went off and everyone left just sealed it. The proximity to the energy is what sent Jack and co. to the present time.

Also a number of the Others present were in fact survivors of the plane crash. The first few times we see Cindy the flight attendant with the Others it is implied that some joined with them.

And funny some people mentioned Fringe similarities to Lost. There ARE Lost references in Fringe you know.

Look at this plane ticket shown on Fringe:

[Alexis]

No no no, I'm merely speculating that the wheel was turned, and I just think Widmore is the most likely person to have done it.

Also, speaking of LOST references in other shows, they show an Oceanic Airlines billboard in the FlashForward pilot episode.

[BooDidley7]

And funny some people mentioned Fringe similarities to Lost. There ARE Lost references in Fringe you know. ]

Flashback to the swinging 70's. Adult Daniel Farraday, a young Walter Bishop, and an even younger Desmond with electrodes plastered all over his body and singing 'Pop Goes the Weasel' over the hum of the electromagnets behind him that randomly spew electrical charges...

SPOILER: Walter Bishop is really Jacob!

[Global-Trance]

Terry O'Quinn is one of the best actors I've ever seen. Too good.

And now for the stuff I obsessively paid attention too... I'll cut this one shorter... Hopefully.

1. Alternate 2004, John Locke plans to marry Helen... a much more fortunate alternative than when she walked away from him.

2. Randy, Locke's boss is still a major douchebag and fires him.

3. Smoke Monster/Nemesis's temptation to bring Richard and others along with him with the most likely false incentive of answers and freedom draws unsurprising parallels with the biblical Temptation of Christ. I've lost count of the Biblical and Eastern religious references at this point...

4. The Apparition of the Other Child... whoever this is knows about the rules between the battle between Jacob and his nemesis. His sudden appearance is similar to that of Walt in previous seasons. Apparently he claims that you can't truly kill Jacob...

5. Ilana takes Jacob's ashes. If the ashes are tied to him or even part of him, then he is almost like the mythical Phoenix.

6. Smoke Monster/Nemesis is said to be recruiting. Funny that before this episode, I was talking to my friend Christopher about the replay of last week's episode. When Dogen and Lennon tell Jack that Sayid has been "claimed" the pop-up notes oddly enough mention the part when Locke explains to Walt about the game of backgammon... one side is Light and the other, Dark. Putting 2 and 2 together, I felt it was like Jacob and his nemesis are picking teams or picking game pieces. I'm on the right track, but still not sure what this big game is about.

7. Sawyer references Steinbeck's " Of Mice and Men" for the second time. First time was during season 3 when he was conned by Ben on Hydra Island.

8. This is the first time the Monster specifically refers to itself as "trapped" and displays a much more human side. Makes it hard to decide who you want to root for now does it?

9. Ilana mentions Smoke Monster/Nemesis can't change his form anymore... peculiar! Not sure what that means. She knows more than it appears to be! Could it be because the Smoke Monster took the form of a "candidate"?

10. Ben comes clean at what appears to be the most emotional yet awkward eulogy ever.

11. Back in Alternate 2004, when John wakes up to his alarm, the alarm sounds much like the alarm in the Swan Hatch. Also the alarm goes off at 8:15. (Edit: An HD Rip shows the time as 6:15. I'm off by one on this one)

12. So there's a ladder on the side of the cliff that nobody's ever seen before? The cave on the cliffside has a scale... one side with a white rock and the other side a black rock. Is this Jacob's cave? Can we say that ladder is JACOB'S LADDER? LOL. Sorry I had to do it.

13. The names on the cave wall... the reason how they're all there. They just TOLD us? AWESOME. They're revealed as the candidates to be Jacob's successor... What are the perks? Is there a greater destiny in all this? Smoke Monster/Nemesis says it's all a joke (button pressing anyone?) and that there's nothing to the Island. Obviously this is a huge lie. There's a huge inheritance in all this...

14. The numbers reappear again on the wall with names.

4 - Locke (now crossed out)

8 - Reyes

15 - Ford

16 - Jarrah

23 - Shephard

42 - Kwon (Jin or Sun?)

15. Many of us have noticed... no Austin!

15. There are other numbers as well. The following are all crossed out.

31 - Rutherford (Shannon)

70 - Faraday (Daniel)

90 - Troup (This is the guy who got sucked into the engine during the season 1 pilot episode. He is also the author of the manuscript that Sawyer was reading which Jack quickly burned. You can actually order this book. Just look up "Bad Twin" by Gary Troup)

195 - Pace (Charlie)

226 - Carlyle (Boone)

313 - Littleton (Clair or Aaron?)

Lostpedia, the Lost wiki, also mentions several names which I missed... such as Goodspeed, Cunningham, Pickett, Jones, etc.... which are all Others, though Goodspeed can also refer to Horace.

They've given us more than just breadcrumbs this episode... a whole lot more information than I thought they'd ever give us. And yet the big picture is still hazy...

[BooDidley7]

Terry O'Quinn is one of the best actors I've ever seen. Too good.

And now for the stuff I obsessively paid attention too... I'll cut this one shorter... Hopefully.

1. Alternate 2004, John Locke plans to marry Helen... a much more fortunate alternative than when she walked away from him.

Terry is pretty great. He takes a character (Locke) who can really be hard-nosed and naive and makes him sympathetic and likable. I really can't think of a show that's had a better cast from top to bottom.

Helen also references Locke's father coming to the wedding. Unless that's a sick joke, it MIGHT suggest his paralysis occurred in another manner. Also, Jacob did revive him (or something, after he fell).

5. Ilana takes Jacob's ashes. If the ashes are tied to him or even part of him, then he is almost like the mythical Phoenix.

Smoke monster seems to have a specific weakness for ash also...

6. Smoke Monster/Nemesis is said to be recruiting. Funny that before this episode, I was talking to my friend Christopher about the replay of last week's episode. When Dogen and Lennon tell Jack that Sayid has been "claimed" the pop-up notes oddly enough mention the part when Locke explains to Walt about the game of backgammon... one side is Light and the other, Dark. Putting 2 and 2 together, I felt it was like Jacob and his nemesis are picking teams or picking game pieces. I'm on the right track, but still not sure what this big game is about.

Yeah, they've been hinting at this for years. The Others were kidnapping people based on these lists, I'd guess also.

8. This is the first time the Monster specifically refers to itself as "trapped" and displays a much more human side. Makes it hard to decide who you want to root for now does it?

Yeah. Mostly because Jacob looks more and more like a selfish SOB. As much as I like the show, I kinda wish someone would just say, "Stop and explain what's going on -- with words -- and not treks into the jungle or off of sea cliffs!"

Sawyer I'm looking at you...

9. Ilana mentions Smoke Monster/Nemesis can't change his form anymore... peculiar! Not sure what that means. She knows more than it appears to be! Could it be because the Smoke Monster took the form of a "candidate"?

Good guess. Probably, or maybe that he decided to take a permanent (or semi-perm) corporeal form?

10. Ben comes clean at what appears to be the most emotional yet awkward eulogy ever.

Might've been the best moment from last night's show! Lapidis summed it pretty well also.

14. The numbers reappear again on the wall with names.

4 - Locke (now crossed out)

8 - Reyes

15 - Ford

16 - Jarrah

23 - Shephard

42 - Kwon (Jin or Sun?)

15. Many of us have noticed... no Austin!

Yeah, is Austin significant or just a red herring? I hope there's some deeper explanation of the numbers, since their origin at least go back to the 70's (as printed on the hatch).

Money's on Sun as Kwon, cause Jacob was at the wedding, and in alternate reality, I think you pointed out they weren't married.

Although, it might be notable that all the other numbers above are definitely men...

They've given us more than just breadcrumbs this episode... a whole lot more information than I thought they'd ever give us. And yet the big picture is still hazy...

But as usual they left us with more questions than answers in classic Lost fashion. Which is fine for the time being, but I really hope there's some concrete stuff before this is over.

Also going to episode 1 of this season, here's a side by side comparison of the flights (crash and non-crash):

Most notable difference? Jack is sitting in a different seat.

[Global-Trance]

Well, a straight forward episode, but a number of subtle details to note which stirs up speculation...

1.) Jack's appendix scar in Alternate 2004. He had it removed on the Island in the original timeline as well. This time he just doesn't seem to know it. Second mark on his body that Alternate Jack does not remember.

2.) Claire is the new Danielle.

3.) Shannon's inhaler and the caves. Oh hey the skeletons I've been wondering about for over five seasons. Jack found two rocks on them in season 1: one black, one white. I wonder if he still has them!

4.) The flash "sideways" explains the significance of "You have what it takes." Nicely tying together two timelines.

5.) Hurley can do whatever he pleases now at the Temple because he now claims to be a candidate. What authority do the candidates have once they acknowledge that title?

6.) The Lighthouse has yet another wheel. Assuming it can turn in a complete circle, there is likely to be 360 degrees, and thus potentially 360 candidates. Though the names in the cave are not 100% identical to that on the Lighthouse wheel, the important numbers are the same. Though missing from the cave, Kate Austen can be seen as 51 and currently not crossed out.

7.) The Lighthouse has 4 mirrors. Not 8 or even 15? Why not 16 or 23 or 42? Okay that's too many...

8.) Jacob mentions to Hurley to turn the Lighthouse to 108 degrees. The name associated with 108 is "Wallace"... either some important person in the not so future or it was just to get Hurley to show Jack what he needed to see.

9.) Speaking of things seen in the mirror, before Jack sees his house, we can see some very Asian styled buildings. It was shown while approaching 108 so there's speculation that the imagery of the Asian buildings belong to 108. Maybe. Who knows? I was personally hoping 108 would be Vincent the dog... but wait is someone really coming to the Island? Desmond? Widmore? They need to show up.

10.) Claire has been living with her father and her "friend" who is revealed to be the Smoke Monster / John Locke. She acknowledges that it is not John though. Team Smoke Monster now consists of at least Claire Littleton, Christian Shephard, and James Ford.

11.) Concerning Christian Shephard being on Team Smoke Monster, there could have been some totally intentional foreshadowing that this was the case during season 4. During one of Jack's flash forwards, Jack is staying late at work at the hospital. While he is busy working, A SMOKE ALARM goes off which brings Jack out to the lobby area where he turns off the alarm and then is startled by the vision of his father which sends him into a downward spiral of self destruction. SMOKE. ALARM. I remember making note about the smoke alarm during the airing of the episode and I felt it was linked to the Smoke Monster somehow but at the time I couldn't see Christian Shephard being the Smoke Monster except for the fact that he was dead. If the smoke alarm was an intentional yet subtle hint, I give them a lot of props for that.

Now for some speculation!

1.) I get the feeling that Jack is going to be THE last candidate standing as the successor to Jacob. I mentioned to some people before all the time travel stuff started to happen (specifically before end of season 3 ) that Jack was possibly Jacob (at that time, Jacob was thought to be the entity in the cabin) that was trapped in time. How did I even bring in time travel before the end of season 3? I can't recall.

2.) Life = Possible Candidate for Jacob, Death = Possibly Claimed for Smoke Monster.

3.) Christian Shephard is to Smoke Monster as Richard is to Jacob. Maybe? Would be a nice opposition to the Jacob-Richard relationship...

4.) "Eternal Recurrence" - the whole "not remembering" mixed with deja vu vibes in the alternate 2004 timeline makes me think that the story of LOST is one rooted in the idea of "Eternal Recurrence" found in eastern religions (oh surprise surprise LOST references eastern religions all the time). Basically it's like Groundhog Day but cycling through your life over and over until true enlightenment. It's a karma thing. If they pull this, I wouldn't be surprised.

Episode didn't reveal entirely too much, but it gets the gears turning. Apparently the next episode is SO EPIC that they couldn't even show the preview for it except for like two seconds. Get hype!

[Radiowar]

it's a minor detail, but i liked the tic tac toe game between miles and hurley. i thought the futility of the game brought to mind the conversation between jacob and the smoke monster from the season 5 finale.

[Alexis]

Global Trance - I kind of assumed that the Christian Shephard we saw running around the island WAS the smoke monster. Because as we know, dead on LOST is dead. So perhaps the reason we haven't seen Christian lately is because now the smoke monster can only take on the form of Locke. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that there is a smoke monster Locke and also a corpse Locke. Christian's corpse has been missing since season 1. However, Christian being the smoke monster and visiting Jack off island would definitely explain the smoke alarm, and I think that makes the most sense that it is the same person.

[Global-Trance]

See this is where it gets complicated. I feel like at one point, the cold Christian Shephard we saw in Season 1 was the Smoke Monster in the form of Christian Shephard. Fast-forward a bit to the first time we see Christian in the cabin. Completely different person. I think he was possibly reanimated at some point by the Smoke Monster.

Claire did say that she was hanging out with her father AND her friend. It seems like they're two different entities at this point though it is very likely that they were at one point the same. *_*

[Radiowar]

i really enjoyed last night's episode. a lot of blogs and comments i've read have criticized the contrived parallels between island Ben and high school teacher Ben, which i think would only have been a problem if it didn't serve a purpose. i thought the (apparent) repentance of Ben was touching, really. Michael Emerson is really great.

but ok can somebody clear something up for me real quick

TV Squad"]An interesting conversation came about regarding the island when Ben was at home taking care of his father, played under impressive makeup by the same actor (Jon Gries) who'd played him in prior flashbacks. We know the Dharma Initiative existed in the beta-verse, as we've seen the remnants of their settlement underwater. We now also know that Ben and his father still went there when Ben was a boy to try and get a fresh start.

wasn't this assumed? i was under the impression that the Ben of the flashsideways timeline was the same who had been shot by Sayid. or am i missing something here.

lostpedia associates that event with the original Ben as well. my head aaaaaaaaa

[Vivi22]

wasn't this assumed? i was under the impression that the Ben of the flashsideways timeline was the same who had been shot by Sayid. or am i missing something here.

Unless the nuke seeming to be the trigger for the new timeline was a red herring then you'd kind of have to assume that's where things diverged, which would mean that Ben and teacher Ben were both shot by Sayid. I know I was simply assuming that unless they give some indication that something else caused the split between the time lines.

[q-pa]

I know I was simply assuming that unless they give some indication that something else caused the split between the time lines.

Given the history of red herrings on this show, I'm not so quick to assume anything anymore.

[Vivi22]

Given the history of red herrings on this show, I'm not so quick to assume anything anymore.

True enough. But if it is a red herring they are trying their damnedest to sell it. Like I said, unless they give a more concrete clue than Jack's mysterious injury on the plane or confusion over his appendix scar that let's us actually speculate at another possibility, I'll assume that because I can't see where else they may be going with it yet if anywhere at all.

[q-pa]

I'll assume that because I can't see where else they may be going with it yet if anywhere at all.

One popular theory I've heard is that this is the epilogue and we're seeing the fate of the characters after the final conflict has been resolved--whatever that turns out to be. Another theory is that this is what happens if Jacob had never influenced them.

My biggest problem is that the characters' pasts have been altered in this reality. Locke is still with his wife and is on good terms with his father, Jack has a son, etc. How could setting of a nuke on a remote island in the Pacific affect them like that in L.A.? Even if the explanation is Jacob not "touching" them, I'm having trouble connecting the dots...