Elemental Darkness and Light

[Final_metroid]

I bought a book about the occult awhile ago and I was reading through it. Inevitably, there was a chapter about the 4 elements (air, water, fire, earth) and the possible fifth (aether/ether/quintessence). I then remembered, in many recent fantasy RPG's though, "dark” and “light” elements have surfaced and treated among the same lines of dictating the nature of things.

Although I have no qualms about considering “light” or “dark” elements, What IS light or dark? In terms of the video games they are featured in, Light and Dark are not always indicative of good and evil (ex. Dark elemental Summon Zodiark from FFXII, Dark element afffiliated protagonist Yuri Hyuga from Shadow hearts. And conversely, Light affiliated antagonist Nicolai Conrad also from Shadow hearts (thats the only one i know of, but i'm sure theres alot more examples in some RPG's)). It also seems strange how these “elements” physically manifest themselves. In terms of good and evil, to me at least, it doesn't seem satisfactory that, say a “holy” spell”, is simply a concentrated mass of positive emotion or some sort of “godly” energy (what would differentiate that from “demonic” or “unholy” energy?) I have the same thoughts for “dark”, in wondering how human emotions and concepts of hatred and violence can manifest themselves to affect the physical world.

I know that these elements simply do exist for the sake of the game, and I'm not questioning why they exist. I simply wish to know under what basis and conditions they would exist. Any thoughts?

[Rozovian]

Light=good, dark=evil. Used to be so simple, but then someone wanted to be innovative.

How someone thinks darkness (absence of light) is a something (like light - visible spectrum radiation) rather than a nothing (an absence) doesn't make sense to me, tho. In keeping with this analogy, what's dark-demonic gonna do against light-Godly? At worst, obscure it with something... something that's actually _something_. This actually has some theological/demonological depth, tho that's a discussion better suited for PPR.

And hey, wouldn't the "concentrated mass of positive emotion" just make the bad guy/monster/enemy feel happy about killing you and your party? Some weapon that'd be.

Yep I think light and dark as elements are ridiculous. Especially dark.

[DarkeSword]

I bought a book about the occult awhile ago and I was reading through it. Inevitably, there was a chapter about the 4 elements (air, water, fire, earth) and the possible fifth (aether/ether/quintessence). I then remembered, in many recent fantasy RPG's though, "dark" and "light" elements have surfaced and treated among the same lines of dictating the nature of things. Although I have no qualms about considering "light" or "dark" elements, What IS light or dark? In terms of the video games they are featured in, Light and Dark are not always indicative of good and evil (ex. Dark elemental Summon Zodiark from FFXII, Dark element afffiliated protagonist Yuri Hyuga from Shadow hearts. And conversely, Light affiliated antagonist Nicolai Conrad also from Shadow hearts (thats the only one i know of, but i'm sure theres alot more examples in some RPG's)). It also seems strange how these "elements" physically manifest themselves. In terms of good and evil, to me at least, it doesn't seem satisfactory that, say a "holy" spell", is simply a concentrated mass of positive emotion or some sort of "godly" energy (what would differentiate that from "demonic" or "unholy" energy?) I have the same thoughts for "dark", in wondering how human emotions and concepts of hatred and violence can manifest themselves to affect the physical world. I know that these elements simply do exist for the sake of the game, and I'm not questioning why they exist. I simply wish to know under what basis and conditions they would exist. Any thoughts?

Please edit your post and make it readable.

[Ray Falling]

Hmm, well the general idea is that evil just cannot stand light. In the theological sence, the evil/sin etc. don't like light because it exposes their evilness 0_0; or something (which is why most bad stuff happens in the dark )

I don't really see how emotions or concepts of hatred can manifest themselves like that. Which was the question right?

Emotions and thoughts simply lead to action, so the action a person would undertake would be the only 'manifestation' that could hurt the physical world.

...

You're not trying to learn magic spells to hurt the physical world, right? My life is an awful RPG already ehehe.

[Hawkwing]

Well in Final Fantasy III the warriors of light are battling darkness. But there's a background to the story where the heroes of dark had to battle the light, and the light was evil.

[Final_metroid]

Hmm, well the general idea is that evil just cannot stand light. In the theological sence, the evil/sin etc. don't like light because it exposes their evilness 0_0; or something (which is why most bad stuff happens in the dark )

I dunno, when looking at Zodiark for example, i'm strongly reminded of the concept of the "old gods" that are extremely powerful but merciless deities of creation (i.e. Nix from greek mythology or Pan-gu from Chinese mythology) In this sense, darkness doesn't only equate to evil, but more to mystery and primordial chaos. Zodiark especially reminds me of this because of his final skill.

I don't really see how emotions or concepts of hatred can manifest themselves like that. Which was the question right?

Emotions and thoughts simply lead to action, so the action a person would undertake would be the only 'manifestation' that could hurt the physical world.

The reason i brought this up is because darkness and light, even when not associated with pure evil or pure good, are paired with hate and anger or love and compassion (respectively) You're right these are only human feelings that motivate people to affect the physical world, but i'm unclear on how say, Aerith's hope and innocence in casting "holy" stopped a giant meteor from destroying the world.

[DJMetal]

I knew I got out of PPR for a reason this morning. Ahh...the smell of an inquisitive soul. I believe that although it might be obvious, I believe that one picture sums up Light and Dark in video games.

I think that they represent a struggle between equally powerful but conflicting forces. To me, dark and light, good and bad, etc, are just points of view. Although your little protagonists in RPGs are normally leaning towards morally good behavior, they're only there to maintain the balance when something of equal "bad" magnitude happens. Right place right time, if you ask me. Maybe there should be a game where you're a super evil group of adventurers trying to overthrow the overly just and good kingdom.

[SLyGeN]

From a scientific standpoint, darkness ought to sap the good things from the opponent. I usually see darkness and light being hurled at the enemy in the form of energy, but they're really polar opposites, and ought not function the same way.

I figure darkness ought to sap HP, or induce mental dementia on opponents.

Light can be overwhelming energy, like always.

Or healing, I suppose.

I like Pokémon's take on it. Dark-type moves are the evil moves. Poor weak Pokémon needs to return to safety? Fucking Pursuit, he's fucking dead. Fuck you. I love it.

That game really is pretty mean.

But. It really doesn't matter either. It's all fictional. But for the sake of conversation, there's my two bits.

[Final_metroid]

I think that they represent a struggle between equally powerful but conflicting forces. To me, dark and light, good and bad, etc, are just points of view. Although your little protagonists in RPGs are normally leaning towards morally good behavior, they're only there to maintain the balance when something of equal "bad" magnitude happens. Right place right time, if you ask me. Maybe there should be a game where you're a super evil group of adventurers trying to overthrow the overly just and good kingdom.

The fact that they are struggling is already evident in most RPG's, with dark and light being opposed (aka "one does more damage to the other"), as the other elements such as fire/water and earth/wind. I'm more talking about the physical manifestations of "light" and "darkness". To apply this to real life, the lines between "light" and "darkness" in most peoples minds are already given identities and physical form in the form of various heroes/villians (from TV, Movies, or myths and folklore) and social stereotypes. Although i agree with you that darkness and light are nothing more than ideologies, I guess what i'm asking is "what specifically is contained in darkness or light?", I mean, in RPG's, if an enemy can use a "holy" spell against the protagonist (who is usually seen as the crusader for light anyway), to me that could draw a paralell between peoples conflicting virtues and ideals.

Too PPR