Silent Hill Discussion

[Eccles]

Primary Assumptions: First, we need to assume that Harry gets the Good Ending in SH1 (not the Good+ Ending). The reason is that if Cybil were saved, Harry would not have the Aglaophotis (sp?) to give to Heather.

Not true.

It's very rare, but it still grows somewhere out in the desert. It says so when you read up on it (in Cheryl's old room from SH1)

[StarZander]

Wait... I though it was the mother of God who was reborn over and over. When Alessa burns to death, Cheryl appers... When you defeat Alessa/Cheryl in SH1, a new baby appears, who will become Heather. But in SH3, it was God who was killed... If Heather was killed, she would be reborn, right?

[Eccles]

When Alessa burns to death, Cheryl appers...

Alessa doesnt burn to death, though.

Remember? Lisa made a video about it...the "Still has an unusually high fever" one.

The reason that it created Cheryl was because Alessas body went through so much pain that half the soul was driven out (which is a belief in many cultures. Put the body in enough pain and the soul will eventually call it quits and leave)

And thats why they burned Alessa...to drive her soul out so that they had an empty shell for Samael to come into (also as a sacrifice to show allegience to him)

This is also why Cheryl is so desparate to go with Harold (heehee...Harold. You can see why he prefers Harry, cant you?) back to Silent hill, because somewhere in her mind she knows what's there and she knows that she can become one with Alessa again if she goes there.

[ifirit]

Silent Hill 1 and 3 Spoilers

Wait... I though it was the mother of God who was reborn over and over. When Alessa burns to death, Cheryl appers... When you defeat Alessa/Cheryl in SH1, a new baby appears, who will become Heather. But in SH3, it was God who was killed... If Heather was killed, she would be reborn, right?

That was my question. However, something changed during SH3. I'm not quite sure what changed that ended this sequence of reincarnation, but it has something to do with Claudia's involvement/interjection.

Primary Assumptions: The Mother of God is not Alessa nor Cheryl, but the combined form of the two. See, in any of the endings, Dahlia combines the two half-girls* together to form Alessa/Cheryl in the white robe. This is the Mother of God; this is St. Alessa. Only this combined form seems to have the power of reincarnation.

*This follows my theory that each girl only contains half the soul of the god (aka Samael). Each one becoming essentially a "half-girl."

As long as Heather is carrying god inside her, she is the Holy Mother. But, when she "aborted" god, Claudia took on the task of birthing Her; Claudia would then become the next Holy Mother. Yet, does this make Claudia capable of the same power as Heather/Alessa/Cheryl? Does she gain the power of reincarnation?

The most simple answer is: I don't know. Konami didn't reveal much about the events that followed the defeat of God?; it mostly left a lot of dangling questions. To answer these questions, we'll need the use of supplemental materials. Hint, hint. Honestly, the endings were the most disappointing aspects of the game. (Maybe the Greatest Hits Version will improve on this. *Keeps fingers crossed.*)

As a sidenote, I believe that girl we see all over town is Cheryl herself, as Dahlia suggests, but only with Alessa's form. I think this mostly because there are still two girls in the end, not just one. Also, we can see that Alessa doesn't really look like that in the "real life." Alessa is still burned and bandaged which is seen in the opening movie to SH1. The reason I believe that it is Cheryl with Alessa's form is most likely because of two things: 1) Alessa is other one shown in the end (if it were the other way around, Cheryl would have been beside the girl), 2) Cheryl had free movement around the town, while it appears that Alessa does not.

Dahlia mentions a spell being cast on Alessa that binds her, after she is captured by the Flauros. Because Dahlia uses the past tense, I think it was cast before Cheryl arrived to Silent Hill. Since Cheryl was not bound by this spell, I assume Alessa transferred her being to Cheryl, which gave the appearance of Alessa unscarred. This might also explain why the Alessa in the opening is moving, while the same Alessa in the endings looks like a corpse.

Please note that I don't think this is the same thing as what Dahlia does to combine the two girls, but it is slightly similar. Similar enough to harness the combined power of the two in order to form the town.

A good analogy, but maybe not well-known, is from the anime "Boogiepop Phantom: Evolution," specifically Episode 7 "Until Ure in My Arms." Anyway, this brother and sister gain strange powers. Though it seems the brother is the one who has the power, it is actually the cooperation of the two that achieves results. The sister allows the brother to use her power to "grant his wishes." One has the power but no control, while the other has control but no power.

Not true.

It's very rare, but it still grows somewhere out in the desert. It says so when you read up on it (in Cheryl's old room from SH1)

It is possible that Harry could have gained another piece of Agloaphotis after leaving Silent Hill. However, I find it highly unlikely. Even if Harry found the plant (which is referred in the book, from Alessa's hospital room), he did not have the knowledge to process it. Only Dr. Kaufman knew that, but he died in SH1.

I know you want to think Cybil is alive in the sequel (I want to, too), but from the things SH3 has shown us, it doesn't look so good. Even if she did survive, she probably got sick and died three years later anyway. [/jk]

[StarZander]

When Alessa burns to death, Cheryl appers...

Alessa doesnt burn to death, though.

Remember? Lisa made a video about it...the "Still has an unusually high fever" one.

The reason that it created Cheryl was because Alessas body went through so much pain that half the soul was driven out (which is a belief in many cultures. Put the body in enough pain and the soul will eventually call it quits and leave)

And thats why they burned Alessa...to drive her soul out so that they had an empty shell for Samael to come into (also as a sacrifice to show allegience to him)

But... No, that can't be true. Not entirely atleast. If they burned Alessa to drive out half her soul, to make room for Samael... Where did she get her psychic powers from, that she was able to use before getting burned? It must be as ifirit says that Samael was already inside Alessa, and when she got torched, half the soul of Alessa/Samael left, and was reborn into Cheryl. Then at the end of SH1, they merge, and Samael is complete. But... Wouldn't Cheryl show some powers before Silent Hill aswell?

[Doulifée]

i have read somewhere that alessa use her psi power to draw half of here soul away from Sh (and thus half of sameal soul?? ). Alessa don't want the birth of god. that why they have burn her, to maintain control over her.

the two splitted soul don't have any remanent psychic power left. they reappear because of cherryl reapparance in Silent shill

[ifirit]

Silent Hill 1 & 3 Spoilers

But... Wouldn't Cheryl show some powers before Silent Hill aswell?

I wondered about that too. I think K. Gordon's notes might shed some light on this. According to the notebook Heather finds, we learn that Alessa came to school with bruises and scars (not deep ones, but noticable). Since it was suggested that she might have been abused, it might have been reason enough to draw out her power. Sounds like the book Carrie, where the girl was abused so much that it draw out her psychic/telekinetic powers. That is possibly what happened to Alessa.

Well, with Cheryl, that didn't happen. Cheryl was loved and cared for like any little girl should be. There really wouldn't have been a reason or source of pain to draw out her powers, so it is likely they remained dormant until she came to Silent Hill.

This can also carry through to Heather. Heather may have had the memories of Alessa and Cheryl, as well as the same power, she didn't show any sign of her power. Most likely again, since she was under the care of Harry, she was not put through a lot of pain. Since there was no abuse in her household, it is possible her power remained dormant, too. Until Claudia came along and drew it out.

Claudia talks about it too. "God's growing within you. You despise me, right?" (At the same time, Heather is holding her sides in pain.) Even after the first time, we can see Heathers eyes water and her voice tremble after meeting Claudia. Claudia is using pain, anger and sadness to "nuture" god within Heather. Though, Heather and Claudia later argue about the consequences of this method, it seems apparent that the godly powers or souls with a person must be drawn out by extreme emotions.

Even in James' case, we see that strong human emotions of pain, anger or despair can cause really strange things to happen in Silent Hill.

[StarZander]

*BUMP*

Don't die on me!

Here, discuss the soundtrack of SH4: The Room. I think they did better than with SH3.

http://www.konamistyle.com/customfactory/sh4sp/

[Tranquil Chaos]

Soundtrack? All I've heard is the "lullaby" from the trailor... If you know where I can get my hands on it, I must know.

[m68030]

I mentioned this back at the start of this thread, and I've talked with

Eccles some..

I'm working on a Silent Hill themed MUD/MUSH and could use some help.

Anyone interested in this project, please IM me at SilentHillBBS

There would be a slowly expanding universe set in Silent Hill in which

multiple users can interact with one another and the universe of the

city.

[Tranquil Chaos]

I'd be somewhat interested, though I've never used a MUD before...

[StarZander]

Soundtrack? All I've heard is the "lullaby" from the trailor... If you know where I can get my hands on it, I must know.

Check the link in my post, yo. There is a flashplayer there, with soundclips from several tracks, including the track with vocals, which kicks ass.

[Tranquil Chaos]

Wow... Akira Yamaoka can do no wrong. The SH4 stuff is freakin sweet...

Thanks for the link!

[StarZander]

Wow... Akira Yamaoka can do no wrong. The SH4 stuff is freakin sweet...

Thanks for the link!

Lets just keep a discussion alive here, people! Now... The titles of the songs usually have some meaning... What can we make out of these? The last one says "Heaven's Night [Live]" which could mean that in the game, you will go to Heaven's Night, the bar that Maria worked at, and see a performance? That would be awesome.

[Eccles]

Or that the piece was performed live...

[StarZander]

Or that the piece was performed live...

Let me have my dreams, will ya?

Still Heaven's Night....

[Eccles]

Oh youre just having maria fantasies. Come on, you know it's true...

[StarZander]

oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, mariiiiiiia.... *drools*

Yeah.

[Eccles]

Well then...

...umm....keep it up?

*shrug*

Does anyone have a link to the Silent Hill fan Calendar?

I did have one, but I lost it...It's ages old (its for 2000) but some of the artwork was pretty good.

[StarZander]

Couldn't find it. I did, however, find a new calendar, for 2004. It's still in progress, but a few months have been released. http://mariasunderland.deviantart.com/

[ifirit]

New SH4 Info:

Seems that the game play will be much harder in the next installment than in other games to date. There are also some new interesting stuff being added to the game.

Gameplay

Old Stuff:

- Power Swing bar (Attack using a strength meter, much like golf games.)

- Real-time weapon switch (Change weapons during gameplay, without going to the main menu.)

Some new stuff: (**Possible Spoilers**)

- No flashlight, no (portable) radio

- Certain monsters float, can pass through walls

- Puzzles and riddles will have an overall theme (This means puzzles may be connected.)

Really New Stuff: (Major Spoilers)

- Certain monsters can hurt you merely by their presence.

- Monsters can attack your weapons (Possibly causing you to drop them.)

- Certain monsters can disguise themselves as objects in the background

- Certain monsters cannot die (Yes, that is correct.)

- Using analogue control, Henry can attack in a realistic 3-D manner

- An icon will appear on screen, whenever you are near an object you can interact with.

- The weapon switch control will work the same as RE: Outbreak. (An on-screen menu will come up and you will search through your inventory.)

When you think about all these gameplay fighting elements together, it provides a greater challenge. Such as in previous games, if you were going to be attacked by a group of enemies, you could turn off the light and avoid a multiple onslaught. However, with no radio and no flashlight, targeting your enemy will be more difficult. Also, because enemies can attack your weapons, defensive strategy will become much more important.

In addition, now that monsters can pass through walls, the comfortable "safe spots" are gone. (You know, those places where you knew you could just rest a minute to calm your nerves before going to the next room. Not anymore.) You also have to deal with the sneak attack, since certain monsters can disguise themselves as objects. Other monsters cannot die leaving you with one option: running. But don't think that each monster has a certain single ability. Some have multiple. So, a PH that can walk through walls can be a likely possibility.

[/spoilers]

Story and Characters

New Stuff: (**Possible Spoilers**)

- Cast will be larger than any previous SH game.

- Game will be longer than SH3.

- Storyline will have true multiple endings.

Really New Stuff: (Major Spoilers)

- A character will follow you during gameplay (like Maria)

- A certain connection to a previous SH cast member will be made.

I don't want to say too much because I don't want to spoil it for you or myself. However, I will say that story is not like any of its predecessors, yet, it will have some similar elements.

I did get ahold of an article describing the intro to the game as well as more particulars to the gameplay itself. The article was published by Eurogamer.net.

[/spoilers]

Have fun.

[Tranquil Chaos]

I am really looking forward to sh4... Thanks for the info.

[Eccles]

The game will be longer than SH3?

I should hope so, too...considering I can walk through SH3 in about a third of the time I can walk through the other two.

And I hope it'll be harder, too...

I only needed three saves when playing SH2...and two of them were because I needed to go get something to eat.

-edit-

Thinking about it, there's something in silent hill 3 which really confused me.

Around the town are little square shield-like things with facial features on them...some have mouths, some have ears, some have eyes...

What the hell do they do?

Do they represent something? Cause even I cant work it out and I'm one of the masters of obscure links...

[ifirit]

Silent Hill 4 Spoilers & Minor Silent Hill 3 Spoilers

Rumor Control

Here are a few rumors I've heard while visiting a few sites and forums for SH4: The Room. (I wonder when people will start calling it SH4TR.) Anyway, there are possible spoilers if any of these rumor turn out to be true. So, **Possible Spoiler Warning**!

- There will be ten different "levels" or areas that Henry will explore.

- A special concert will take place during the game while playing "Waiting for You (Live At Heaven's Night)" featuring 1 of the following:

1) Melissa Williamson, singing talent for SH3 and now SH4, live as a music video.

2) A character from the game performing the concert.

3) A character from a previous game performing the concert.

- The is a connection between one of the characters from SH2 to the new game.

- There will be variations of the same creatures in the game, similar to SH1. (ex: Air Screamer --> Night Flutter)

- At on point you return to Toluca Lake and visit the Lakeside Hotel.

- A hospital will be an explorable area in the game.

- New weapons will include the following:

1) Wine Bottle

2) Bug Spray

3) Box Cutter

4) Baseball Bat

5) Golf Club

- Only one save point in the game.

There are lots more rumors and theories out there about SH4: The Room, but I chose to only list the most interesting of the bunch.

-edit-

Thinking about it, there's something in silent hill 3 which really confused me.

Around the town are little square shield-like things with facial features on them...some have mouths, some have ears, some have eyes...

What the hell do they do?

Do they represent something? Cause even I cant work it out and I'm one of the masters of obscure links...

I'm not quite sure which shield-like things you're refering to, but is this it?

If it is, I'll approach your query. Though, I'm not aware of any specific references of these posters, there are a few ways to interpret the meaning. We can see that these are posters of parts of a person's head. A picture is just a representation of something else. Though, the most accurate way to do so nowdays, it is still a representation. Therefore, we could interpret it as a representation for a particular body part. Or more to the point, what those body parts represent.

You might choose to see them as representations of the primary senses: hearing, sight, taste, smell, touch. It could also be a representation of the lack of those senses, since we are only given the picture and not the sensation. It could also be a representation of lacking senses; since we only see one feature at a time, we might only be getting partial information. Only one sense is presented. This can have a disjointed effect, that sight is present without sound, or vice-versa. There are still other directions we can take this.

You may choose to see them as a representation of what people have as ideals. Since the smile is very happy and the teeth are in perfect shape. In other words, the representation of want we want ourselves or our environment to be. This topic was tossed around a little with both Heather and Claudia. Niether one held a great sense of self-esteem, so they might have kept a picture of their ideals in their heads. Though, I do admit that the pictures don't really match up with Heather's ideals, but more so with Claudia's.

There are a couple more ways to interpret it, but I'll reply when I've gotten some sleep. Besides, there is enough right now to go from.

However, on the topic of background object interpretation, discuss why there is no siren playing when Heather travels to the Alternate locations. It was present in SH1 & SH2 when the characters passed into the Alternate universe. Why not with Heather?

EDIT: In case anyone hasn't already heard, there are some new SH4: The Room updates available.

First, a new teaser trailer has been released by Konami before the official E3 trailer. Hopefully, we'll get the official scoop on the details on shipping to the US and Europe, bonus material included (or not included) with the game, and soundtrack info at E3.

Speaking of the SH4 Soundtrack, you probably already know about the sound clips released by Konami. For those who want to listen to them non-stop until the official soundtrack is released. You can download the clips all together here. (Flash player is required.)

Lastly, for all the screenshots released up-to-date and organized very neatly, please visit this site. It also has a few references (It's never too early!) as well as some promotional material, including a very omnious and curious promotional T-shirt. Hmmm......

EDIT 2: SH4 Update. I'm sure many of you may have missed it, but a very special (and very strange) picture was released by Konami on the SH4: The Room website, www.sh2004.com. The picture appeared on May 5, 2004 for only 24 hours. (I guess the developer wanted to wish us a happy Cinco de Mayo.) Anyway, if you want to see the picture, you'll have to have to save this thread. Hahahahaaaaaa.....

Or just PM me.

Also, I have some ultra, super, blow-your-mind-crazy, never seen before in-game videos of gameplay for SH4: The Room.

Spoiler ALERT

The contents of what you are about to view will spoil a few small gameplay elements for you, which in-turn may break the surprise of certain things in the game. So, be warned. I mean it.

Alright. Let's get to it. You can find these clips here. (This is an Angelfire site so bandwidth can very easily be consumed.) Please read the rest once you've viewed the videos.

If you'll notice in the first video, the sound effects made popular in SH2 and then 3 return in this game as well. Only a minor note. What's more important is that we finally see how the tunnel system works in the game and what it looks like. Please note that the creatures attacking Henry are not exactly mothes, but look very much so. Also, there is a very subtle detail that I will point out in the third video. Anyway, we get to see the first person perspective in Henry's apartment. I did notice the icons that pop-up whenever you are close to something you can interact with. Personally, I thought it would take away from the movie-style look of the game, but I hardly noticed it when I saw it in action; a good thing to know.

The second video also shows us some of the action elements with the ghosts and the in game weapon switch. It's a little clunky, but not something you can't get used to. We also have a confirmation that certain monsters cannot die. If you watch the video carefully, you'll notice that Henry shoots a ghost such that he "dies" (he makes the dying sound and falls over), but then just before the video ends, the monster gets back up. Ghosts cannot be killed!

The third video really gives us a taste of the gunplay in the game, as well as the weapon-switch system. It is now confirmed that the bar on the upper-left of the screen is your life meter. (A cheaters note: Even though there will be no radio, you can use the life meter to tell if monsters are nearby because it appears when you are close to combat.) The last thing I wanted to point out was the way Henry touches his forehead near the end of the video. As he touches his skull, the screen gets fuzzy and strange music plays. This is what I wanted to point out in the first video as well. This is a sign that monsters are closeby. I suspected it in the first video after it was pointed out in the third. The real confirmation of this is in the fourth video. It's brief and subtle, but there.

As Henry is getting attacked by the ghosts, just before he switches weapons, he touches his forehead again. He clearly does this each time a monster attacks him. Either that means Henry has some sort of psychic power that allows him to sense monsters, or the monsters are causing him mental as well as physical damage. We won't know for sure until the game is released now will we?

[Eccles]

I just came out of lesson in which I wrote a little about who Laura is.

The main thing I wrote about was concerned with the following exchange:

James: What's a little girl like you doing here anyway?

Laura: Huh? Are you blind or somethin?

Most people use this line to assume that Laura has some deeper meaning for being in the game, but I have my own theory that it relates to James and Laura having met one another prior to the games release.

SH4 SPOILARS, OMG

As far as Henry goes, I would have to suggest he's related either to James or Angela. I say James because his name was flying back and forth when the game was released {though probably because James was supposed to be the main character in the game}. I say Angela because of his hair colour and the fact that Oroscoe is the only surname that really works with Henry as a surname. Henry Dombrowski is just stupid.