Silent Hill Discussion

[Eccles]

Not really, man...

[M@]

I didn't like the way the radio was downplayed in the third instalment, myself. Whereas I never really regarded it as key a gameplay feature as some, I still found the radio a neat and original little radar. I hope they don't have, uh, "music" play each time an enemy of sorts is near in 4, like in 3.

That said, they downplayed the idea of using the town itself as a "world map" in the 3rd game, which is probably where the radio was the most useful – when surrounded in fog where you couldn't see your adversaries, so had to listen out for them. That has little use when you’re in a small room and can see damn near everything. Would have been nice in longer corridors, mind, like those in Brookhaven Hospital. From what I’ve read though, it doesn't look like they'll be using that technique again.

[RichardKimble]

Hmmm...the idea of the execution of Maria/Mary is interesting. Very interesting. After all, remember how you end the battle? James taking one last shot/whatever to finish off Maria/Mary? I'm not exactly sure how that fits in, but especially with execution in mind, finishing the battle execution style would seem to have some significance.

WAIT! If it's Mary, than he's doing what he did before. She is down, she was causing him great pain, he wants her to be gone for good...so he finishes her off AGAIN. As Maria says "You killed Mary again?". Maybe that's what Silent Hill has been trying to get him to do, if it can't kill him. It's making him re-commit his crime, but accept it this time and leave with his 'reward', Maria. Notice how she coughs at the end? Perhaps the town is going to repeat the whole cycle again, with Maria this time...?

If it's Maria, he has decided to cast her off. He doesn't want to leave it to doubt whether or not he's destroyed her, he wants her dead and gone so he can move on. That's why he has to kill her and make certain of it: He wants to destroy the town's influence on him the same way he tried to sever his tie to Mary when she caused him pain. Only, this time, it more represents a rejection and a severing of a tie that didn't really exist yet. A rejection of everything the town brought out in him, so that he can move on.

I dunno, that's a bit odd, the Maria part...but I think that Mary idea is pretty solid.

Well, I'm seeing the world of Silent Hill 2 as something of a pergutory for James. Not in the Christian sense, but more in the sense as it was somewhat presented in the Asian movie The Eye. The belief that plays a major part in that movie is that people who commit suicide stay on Earth as spirits who constantly repeat the act until they come to grips with what they've done.

We know James commits suicide in one of the endings. However, it's ambiguous whether it happens before or after the events of SH 2 since the letter James is supposed to get after Mary dies is being read over the ending. It's possible that James suffered miserably from guilt and that letter, filled with some emotional stuff, was delivered to him and pushed him over the edge. Not saying it's right. Just my thoughts on it.

So, we plug this in to everything. My idea is all the dark, evil stuff in Silent Hill 2 is James' projection. Well, not all of it. Some of it is other people's, but I'll get to that in a moment. All right, so they're a projection of his mind. This includes the Pyramid men and Maria, all though Maria may be a demon, but again, we'll get to that. In the final confrontation with the Pyramid Men, James says he needed them to punish him for his sins. What do they do besides skewer him and take swipes at him with swords so big, Cloud couldn't even hold one? They execute Maria. A few times, really. While the Pyramid Men may not be a direct representation of James' dark side, he does permit them to do what they do, if subconsciously.

So, he's constantly living out the torture of what he's done through Maria, only it's an act separate from himself because he hasn't come to grips with he's done yet. I believe the final showdown with Maria is something of James coming full arc, confronting the ugly thing he's done (and yeah, Maria isn't exactly a pretty final boss), and moving on. She is in an execution cage because this is James realizing that this is him who has done the crime and his final bullet is something of reaching a finality. While the fight with the Pyramid heads may have somewhat served that need, he still is clinging to Maria a bit (He says "Leave her the hell alone!") and may need that last push.

Maria could be a demon pushing trying to drag James to a hell of some sorts. The final scene with Angela sort of throws in the possibility of the existance of hell since she now always sees flames. In the movie What Dreams May Come (I know, more making references to religious stuff in movies. I should probably read a book or something), a big part of the movie is one the characters committing suicide, and that person sort of building walls around herself, not coming to grips with her actions, and not even recognizing the person she should recognize the most. Angela fits ALL of that (Which is why I think they added the odd part with her mistaking James as her mother). So, with that in mind, Maria may be a separate entity trying to drag James into the flames, but I doubt it. Most of the things in SH 2 (or the entire SH series, for that matter) are very mental in origin. I think Maria is seen getting executed instead of Mary because James subconsciously doesn't feel he deserves to see Mary and is giving this sin-tainted replacement (notice at the end she looks exactly like Mary, but is still Maria. Completely getting rid of Maria is James turning the last screw).

So what are these OTHER characters doing here? Well, maybe they all died in Silent Hill on the same day? Note in the Catacombs, there are newspapers with "today's date" on it. It has flaws, considering that it's quite a coincidence three murderers died on the same day in the same town, but it may be just a Twilight Zone "it makes the plot work" kind of coincidence. Maybe they've been there for awhile and are constantly repeating their sins and simply reseting each time. However, if that's the case, then I question the linearity and the apparant finality of their actions. When James kills Eddy, it doesn't seem like Eddy's going to just reset and start again, does it?

Anyway, so since they're all in their own personal pergatories, they're fighting monsters of their own creation. Eddy's possibly fighting very human-like monsters that taunt him (though I can't be sure because he kills all of them and leaves them either REALLY bloody or in a place where you can't see the body). Angela is being chased by the bedman, because well, we all know what her daddy did to her. Sometimes these worlds cross and James sees Eddy's and Angela's monsters. Laura is a loose end, I admit. She doesn't seem to be bothered by anything in Silent Hill. She feels she has enough time to calmly draw murals onto the walls of Silent Hill, for crying out loud! She could be there because she's been a complete and total brat to everyone. She's not exactly the nicest kid in the world. However, she may also be some kind of "tough love" help for James, pushing him into realizing all the things he can't realize himself. She locks James in the room with all the caged monsters and he fights a caged Maria later and she's the one who indirectly points out the bad things in his relationship with Mary. Of course, still, locking a guy in a room with three REALLY creepy monsters just ain't right no matter what the reason, ya' know?

Anyway, that's about all I have on the subject. Hope you enjoyed reading. My only big question is what is the significance of Walter Sullivan? He's mentioned very prominantly a couple times and even has his own tombstone in the room before the battle with Eddy. If it's been covered in this thread, sorry, I'm an idiot.

Oh, and I do not by any means feel I'm completely right. With something like Silent Hill 2, it's to no benefit for one to say there's a be-all and end-all explination. Just some thoughts.

Oh, and a quicky theory about Silent Hill 3. I'm thinking the monsters may be a representation of the 7 deadly sins (AGAIN with the stuff learned from movies!). Since it's established at the end by Vincent that the dark world is all Claudia's decoration, and Claudia sees the world full of sin, the monsters could be a reflection on sin. The monster Heather first encounters could be greed with all the extremeties except the legs being mouths, the little things first encountered in the malls sloth with only having a giant mouth and tiny legs, the "cancers" being gluttony, the pendulums or the blademen being wraith, and the nurses being pride (They do seem to have makeup on, which is a difference from other SH nurses). Of course, I'm missing a couple, but it's a rather incomplete and flimsy theory. Just a thought, really.

Oh, hi, by the way. I lurk a lot, but I always love a good Silent Hill discussion.

EDIT: Fixed some typos, though there may be still plenty of misspellings since I'm not that great at spelling.

[DJ-Omega]

Hi all I just discovered this thread and I wanted to share some theories I heard. I'm going to be lazy and not read the entire thread so if anyone covered this previously sorry. Also I lurk a lot so please excuse my noob posting skills. Oh BTW, RichardKimble, please don't get mad at me for taking apart your message and expressing my theories. You were on the last page and you looked like you had a lot of good points and some I could argue. Nothing personal, I just liked your post

Anyways

Well, I'm seeing the world of Silent Hill 2 as something of a pergutory for James. Not in the Christian sense, but more in the sense as it was somewhat presented in the Asian movie The Eye. The belief that plays a major part in that movie is that people who commit suicide stay on Earth as spirits who constantly repeat the act until they come to grips with what they've done. We know James commits suicide in one of the endings. However, it's ambiguous whether it happens before or after the events of SH 2 since the letter James is supposed to get after Mary dies is being read over the ending. It's possible that James suffered miserably from guilt and that letter, filled with some emotional stuff, was delivered to him and pushed him over the edge. Not saying it's right. Just my thoughts on it.

I agree with you on this theory because if I understand you right his silent hill experience could have happened while he was dying like the bad ending in Silent hill 1.

So, we plug this in to everything. My idea is all the dark, evil stuff in Silent Hill 2 is James' projection. Well, not all of it. Some of it is other people's, but I'll get to that in a moment. All right, so they're a projection of his mind. This includes the Pyramid men and Maria, all though Maria may be a demon, but again, we'll get to that. In the final confrontation with the Pyramid Men, James says he needed them to punish him for his sins. What do they do besides skewer him and take swipes at him with swords so big, Cloud couldn't even hold one? They execute Maria. A few times, really. While the Pyramid Men may not be a direct representation of James' dark side, he does permit them to do what they do, if subconsciously.

I also agree with this because if you noticed all of the monsters of Silent hill represent some kind of symbolic message about the town or person. The red pyramid head is constantly killing maria representing James killing his Mary. The Leg Mannequins represent james sexual tension and frustration. Before you start laughing hear me out. When Mary became ill she became a lifeless and ridden body to james. The leg mannequins are composed of all legs and are wearing clothes similar to mary's. Also maria's tempting james and the rape scene with pyramid head and the mannequins reinforce this and the fact that pyramid head is a part of james persona. The Caged Prisoner Grille Demon could represent two things, james's own emotional prison that he cannot escape or Mary's death bed. The cage is a symbol of pain and torture which james along with everyone except for Laura (which I will get to later) are experiencing. Or for theory two, the frame looks like a sadistic representation of Mary's death bed. Even maria is in the cage at the end and when she is defeated she falls to the ground and resumes the role of mary and asks james to put her out of her misery. If you take close notice to the nurses in this Silent hill the you can see that they are the only nurses wear mini-skirts thus reinforcing james's own lust, and his sexual frustration and tension.

So, he's constantly living out the torture of what he's done through Maria, only it's an act separate from himself because he hasn't come to grips with he's done yet. I believe the final showdown with Maria is something of James coming full arc, confronting the ugly thing he's done (and yeah, Maria isn't exactly a pretty final boss), and moving on. She is in an execution cage because this is James realizing that this is him who has done the crime and his final bullet is something of reaching a finality. While the fight with the Pyramid heads may have somewhat served that need, he still is clinging to Maria a bit (He says "Leave her the hell alone!") and may need that last push. Maria could be a demon pushing trying to drag James to a hell of some sorts. The final scene with Angela sort of throws in the possibility of the existence of hell since she now always sees flames. In the movie What Dreams May Come (I know, more making references to religious stuff in movies. I should probably read a book or something), a big part of the movie is one the characters committing suicide, and that person sort of building walls around herself, not coming to grips with her actions, and not even recognizing the person she should recognize the most. Angela fits ALL of that (Which is why I think they added the odd part with her mistaking James as her mother). So, with that in mind, Maria may be a separate entity trying to drag James into the flames, but I doubt it. Most of the things in SH 2 (or the entire SH series, for that matter) are very mental in origin. I think Maria is seen getting executed instead of Mary because James subconsciously doesn't feel he deserves to see Mary and is giving this sin-tainted replacement (notice at the end she looks exactly like Mary, but is still Maria. Completely getting rid of Maria is James turning the last screw).

I agree with you that Maria is a representation of Mary but I think she's just made to die to make james suffer over and over and remind him of what he did but to drag james in the flames. the whole closure thing I haven't really thought about but it sounds solid.

So what are these OTHER characters doing here? Well, maybe they all died in Silent Hill on the same day? Note in the Catacombs, there are newspapers with "today's date" on it. It has flaws, considering that it's quite a coincidence three murderers died on the same day in the same town, but it may be just a Twilight Zone "it makes the plot work" kind of coincidence. Maybe they've been there for awhile and are constantly repeating their sins and simply reseting each time. However, if that's the case, then I question the linearity and the apparant finality of their actions. When James kills Eddy, it doesn't seem like Eddy's going to just reset and start again, does it?

I don't think that Silent Hill is for the dead. It lures people into the town like it did to Harry and Heather, only Heather was more forced by outside forces. I think that everyone that goes to Silent Hill all have problems with their own pasts and Silent Hill calls to them to bring out their sins. Samael likes to prod at people's inter secretes until they are forced to come face to face with it and have to deal with it. When some dies in Silent Hill they are actually being killed.

Anyway, so since they're all in their own personal pergatories, they're fighting monsters of their own creation. Eddy's possibly fighting very human-like monsters that taunt him (though I can't be sure because he kills all of them and leaves them either REALLY bloody or in a place where you can't see the body). Angela is being chased by the bedman, because well, we all know what her daddy did to her. Sometimes these worlds cross and James sees Eddy's and Angela's monsters.

Like this is the same thing I said earlier and I agree 100%.

Laura is a loose end, I admit. She doesn't seem to be bothered by anything in Silent Hill. She feels she has enough time to calmly draw murals onto the walls of Silent Hill, for crying out loud! She could be there because she's been a complete and total brat to everyone. She's not exactly the nicest kid in the world. However, she may also be some kind of "tough love" help for James, pushing him into realizing all the things he can't realize himself. She locks James in the room with all the caged monsters and he fights a caged Maria later and she's the one who indirectly points out the bad things in his relationship with Mary. Of course, still, locking a guy in a room with three REALLY creepy monsters just ain't right no matter what the reason, ya' know?

Laura is of complete innocence which is why she doesn't see anything wrong with the town. She could probably see the most beautiful place on earth while it looks like hell for others. Silent Hill feeds off of other people's sins and creates a world for them based off of that. Since Laura is free of any kind of sin, she has no evil force to deal with. When she locked james in the room, it probably looked like a vacant room to her with nothing wrong with it while James sees monsters in it and begs her to open it up. Why she is in the town is a complete mystery to me since Silent Hill draws sinners. Maybe she is a resident of the town?

Anyway, that's about all I have on the subject. Hope you enjoyed reading. My only big question is what is the significance of Walter Sullivan? He's mentioned very prominantly a couple times and even has his own tombstone in the room before the battle with Eddy. If it's been covered in this thread, sorry, I'm an idiot.

I think that the whole symbolism with Walter Sullivan is that he didn't feel any shred of guilt for the murders he committed. This could represent Eddie's angle or maybe some kind to james not to feel guilt about what he did?

Oh, and a quicky theory about Silent Hill 3. I'm thinking the monsters may be a representation of the 7 deadly sins (AGAIN with the stuff learned from movies!). Since it's established at the end by Vincent that the dark world is all Claudia's decoration, and Claudia sees the world full of sin, the monsters could be a reflection on sin. The monster Heather first encounters could be greed with all the extremeties except the legs being mouths, the little things first encountered in the malls sloth with only having a giant mouth and tiny legs, the "cancers" being gluttony, the pendulums or the blademen being wraith, and the nurses being pride (They do seem to have makeup on, which is a difference from other SH nurses). Of course, I'm missing a couple, but it's a rather incomplete and flimsy theory. Just a thought, really.

For the monsters in Silent Hill 3, I think they, like james, represents some thing in heather's life. the split-faced hounds and worm represents heather's double personality, in other words it represents heather also being Alessa. the bandages on the dogs also represent the bandages on Alessa. I don't want to get into the subject of Valtiel. Numb Bodies I think represents heather having god inside her. They look similar to an undeveloped fetus and look very similar to the fetus she aborts at the end. The Closers kind of look like giant teddy bears referring to Alessia's childhood and her bedroom which she was stuck in most of her life. Insane Cancers remind me of the growth of the god inside of her and that the god inside her is nothing but cancer for mankind. It also represents that just like cancer depends humanity, the monsters of silent hill depend on the human power of imagination. Nurses represent Alessia's former life of which she was in a coma until the arrival of Cheryl.

Well those are some theories I believe in. I got most of them from this plot analysis Http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/silent_hill_3_plot.txt which I find most of them to make alot of sense. If anyone wants to dissect my post and argue my point be my guest, in fact I encourage it. I love a good discussion. Thanks again RichardKimble.

[Eccles]

James keeps seeing people die in silent hill, fine...

Why, then, does he not really care when he sees someone die?

"Maria got lynched? Damn, where's Mary?"

"I just gunned Eddia into a horrible bloodied carcass? Is mary in here?"

"OH NO! MARIA GOT STABBED! NOW SHELL NEVER TELL ME ABOUT MARY!"

[Miss Aran]

I just saw this music video of Heather singing the opening song for SH 3...so funny.

http://www.silenthilldomain.com/silenthillmedia/SilentHill3Movies.html

[Night10194]

I just wanted to say thank you to all the people in this thread for the wonderful and earnest discussion we have going on. It's quite interesting and enlightening. So...thanks!

[RichardKimble]

Hi all I just discovered this thread and I wanted to share some theories I heard. I'm going to be lazy and not read the entire thread so if anyone covered this previously sorry. Also I lurk a lot so please excuse my noob posting skills. Oh BTW, RichardKimble, please don't get mad at me for taking apart your message and expressing my theories. You were on the last page and you looked like you had a lot of good points and some I could argue. Nothing personal, I just liked your post

No problem. I wrote it for the sake of discussion. And as long as it adds stuff, like yours did, and not "You r teh suck," it's perfectly fine.

I also agree with this because if you noticed all of the monsters of Silent hill represent some kind of symbolic message about the town or person. The red pyramid head is constantly killing maria representing James killing his Mary. The Leg Mannequins represent james sexual tension and frustration. Before you start laughing hear me out. When Mary became ill she became a lifeless and ridden body to james. The leg mannequins are composed of all legs and are wearing clothes similar to mary's. Also maria's tempting james and the rape scene with pyramid head and the mannequins reinforce this and the fact that pyramid head is a part of james persona. The Caged Prisoner Grille Demon could represent two things, james's own emotional prison that he cannot escape or Mary's death bed. The cage is a symbol of pain and torture which james along with everyone except for Laura (which I will get to later) are experiencing. Or for theory two, the frame looks like a sadistic representation of Mary's death bed. Even maria is in the cage at the end and when she is defeated she falls to the ground and resumes the role of mary and asks james to put her out of her misery. If you take close notice to the nurses in this Silent hill the you can see that they are the only nurses wear mini-skirts thus reinforcing james's own lust, and his sexual frustration and tension.

I can see a lot of that. Certainly, the mannequins do have feminine aspects and do seem to represent somewhat his sexual frustrations. For example: The Pyramid Man rape scene. If the PM is a representation of James and the mannequins are a representation of his sexual frustrations, it certainly gives the scene a lot of context. Also, one of the little unsaid things is that while Mary was very sick, she and James couldn't, you know, do it. This could range from 6 months to 3 years, according to the doctor when James is listening to the headphones in the reading room. Not to be too immature about it, but that's a LOT of time without sex.

However, there are some enemies that don't emphasize sexuality, like the demon patients. These could be James realizing that he isn't as mentally stable as he seems to be.

I agree with you that Maria is a representation of Mary but I think she's just made to die to make james suffer over and over and remind him of what he did but to drag james in the flames. the whole closure thing I haven't really thought about but it sounds solid.

Probably. I may have overcomplicated the matter because Maria also has an extra temptress quality about her could imply a demon, but like it said, I doubt it.

I don't think that Silent Hill is for the dead. It lures people into the town like it did to Harry and Heather, only Heather was more forced by outside forces. I think that everyone that goes to Silent Hill all have problems with their own pasts and Silent Hill calls to them to bring out their sins. Samael likes to prod at people's inter secretes until they are forced to come face to face with it and have to deal with it. When some dies in Silent Hill they are actually being killed.

It probably wasn't all that clear, but I don't think Silent Hill is JUST for the dead. However, it's a great many things (especially things people bring to it) and could be a place for the dead who have a connection to it. Mary says the place is a sacred place, and a lot of the historical stuff you find agrees with that.

Off-topic, while Silent Hill 2 is definately a personal journey, I think it also fits into the series by filling out what exactly the town of Silent Hill is. In the original, it's a nice backdrop and you get some of the backstory, but just enough that you (somewhat) understand the story. Here you get a LOT of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the main plot, but what it does do is give context for the town, much like SH 3 gives a lot of context to the cult from SH 1. So, even if you hate James and his little story, you can still admire SH 2 for being a guide to the town.

Laura is of complete innocence which is why she doesn't see anything wrong with the town. She could probably see the most beautiful place on earth while it looks like hell for others. Silent Hill feeds off of other people's sins and creates a world for them based off of that. Since Laura is free of any kind of sin, she has no evil force to deal with. When she locked james in the room, it probably looked like a vacant room to her with nothing wrong with it while James sees monsters in it and begs her to open it up. Why she is in the town is a complete mystery to me since Silent Hill draws sinners. Maybe she is a resident of the town?

Well, I wouldn't call her completely innocent. I mean, she steps on James' hand when he's reaching for the key and she isn't exactly nice to Eddie. But she does have a connection to Mary. She has the letter from Mary and they were very close and she got to see all the bad things about James. So I still think she's there for the sake of getting James to realize that he didn't always think the world of Mary.

Of course, that creates the question of why she interacts with Eddy at the bowling alley. Why does Maria stay out of the bowling alley, for that matter? If she's so scared of the monsters, why would she let the fact that she doesn't like bowling alleys bother her? Even though she claims she saw Laura runs past her, we never see Laura and Maria in the same place at the same time. Maybe that's part of of it. Maybe they're two different forces pulling at James. I think it may be Maria's a part of James' mind that is trying to push him farther into the trap he's got himself into and Laura is trying to help him out in her own rough way. or that could be all crap. Maria after all shows a LOT of sympathy for Laura and seems to genuinely want James to go after her. Who knows.

I think that the whole symbolism with Walter Sullivan is that he didn't feel any shred of guilt for the murders he committed. This could represent Eddie's angle or maybe some kind to james not to feel guilt about what he did?

Maybe. He could be a hint to James. It's one of the many things in SH 2 that seems to fit in somewhere in the puzzle but there's not an exact fit.

For the monsters in Silent Hill 3, I think they, like james, represents some thing in heather's life. the split-faced hounds and worm represents heather's double personality, in other words it represents heather also being Alessa. the bandages on the dogs also represent the bandages on Alessa. I don't want to get into the subject of Valtiel. Numb Bodies I think represents heather having god inside her. They look similar to an undeveloped fetus and look very similar to the fetus she aborts at the end. The Closers kind of look like giant teddy bears referring to Alessia's childhood and her bedroom which she was stuck in most of her life. Insane Cancers remind me of the growth of the god inside of her and that the god inside her is nothing but cancer for mankind. It also represents that just like cancer depends humanity, the monsters of silent hill depend on the human power of imagination. Nurses represent Alessia's former life of which she was in a coma until the arrival of Cheryl.

Well those are some theories I believe in. I got most of them from this plot analysis Http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/silent_hill_3_plot.txt which I find most of them to make alot of sense. If anyone wants to dissect my post and argue my point be my guest, in fact I encourage it. I love a good discussion. Thanks again RichardKimble.

You're welcome. I've read through that myself. It has a few flaws (Like not mentioning the fact that the doormen are actually the bedmen in the discussion of that enemy), but the vast amounts of information and theories backed with evidence make up for those little things ten times over. The memo feature on SH 2 and 3 help immensely for information gathering, but there are some things that the memos forget that are written down in it that help immensely in understanding everything.

As for the monster thing, that theory probably sounds more correct. I was just basing my theory off of what Vincent said at the end about the dark other world being a creation of Claudia's. But, I see basing anything off of what Vincent says to be dubious, since he's something of a swindler. He twists things to make himself more favorable and even lies to for that purpose. However, even his lies have a slight bit of truth, so you never know...

And ECCLES: Well, he's like Harry in that matter. They really have one-track minds in the game. Harry does the same thing in the original SH. "Damn, those bodies on those the wall are creepy. Let's go find Cheryl!" "Yeah, you've been changed into a zombie of sorts, but you're better now, so get off your ass and help me find Cheryl." "Yeah, yeah, all that stuff about gyromancy is all very interesting, but that doesn't help me find Cheryl, you creepy old bat!" "Wow, that nurse seems like she really needs support. Oh well, Cheryl's more important. I'm finding her."

The makers really need to find reasons for the characters to go forward, and in some ways, you need to suspend your disbelief a bit. Plus, giving them those big motivation allows them to give some believability to the characters' actions. I mean, it would take a LOT for someone to walk through three rooms worth of corpses and then jump down a hole where one can't see the bottom. Giving them this one-track mind can be a reason for it. James DOES express grief for killing Eddie, saying stuff like "I've never killed someone before" (which is, of course, not true), but if he was extremely distraught, he wouldn't get on that boat and go to the hotel, so they have to give him that determination about finding his wife. He knows there's something wrong about something surrounding his wife. Something he's missing, and that's kind of what's driving him forward. I can see why you don't particularly like James, though.

[Eccles]

Does he?

As far as Grief goes, allus James does is two lines, before he's "ah well. Shit happens. ON TO MARY!"

[RichardKimble]

Does he?

As far as Grief goes, allus James does is two lines, before he's "ah well. Shit happens. ON TO MARY!"

True. His lines after Eddie's death are:

"Eddie.... Eddie! I... I killed a... a human being... A human being...

Mary... Did you really die three years ago...?"

(From the SH 2 on Gamefaqs.com)

Still, it's a bit of grief, albeit tiny.

[Eccles]

Precisely...not very good in terms of grief

...I forgot what I was going to put in here.

Prolly cause I've got to go to a lecture like...10 minutes ago.

[ifirit]

Silent Hill 1 & 2 Spoilers

Well so far I've seen all my questions answered but one: Does the radio have some importance as well other than a radar? There was that freaky Trick or treat show in the elevator in part two and it's been in all three games...

In Silent Hill 1, the radio was used to help show that the world of Silent Hill existed on a different plain of reality. The radio could not play any radio stations or recieve any other signals, but only pick up the strange static emitted by monsters. By suggesting that the town had no interferences from other electromagnetic sources, either the town was secluded from the rest of the world or that it existed on a different plane altogether. Either way, this meant that the town was becoming lost or hidden.

Also, note that the televisions didn't work in town (with the exception of the Town Center, Hospital Room 312 and Nowhere). ("The phones are dead and cars have completely stopped running.") Also, the radio allows us to know that the monsters emit strong electromagnetic waves, which suggests that they are not exactly flesh and blood; they lose their magnetism as they die. This is the strongest evidence that the monsters are supernatural beings and not just figments of the mind nor physical, in a tangible sense.

Don't misunderstand. In the world that Alessa/Cheryl has created, everything has a physical form, but I believe that it does not follow the same rules of matter and energy as our plane of existance. This is a very metaphysical suggestion, but it can explain why things are the way they are in Silent Hill. One way to show this is how monsters will just disappear after some time after they are killed. Though I can see how someone might say that that is just from limitations of the graphics engine, but I think it plays into the game.

The designers had a really good understanding of the engine used for the game and exploited some of the disadvantages or rather pushed the advantages to their limits in the first game. Think about how they were able to create a full 3-D world with good graphics, real weather effects, multiple camera effects and loads of other stuff that made it a well-rounded survival horror game. So, it can be inferred that the majority of, if not all, the aspects of the game were thought out before hand and added into the story. *steps off soapbox*

For example, the reason they created the fog was to enhance the scary feeling of the game. They knew that the engine could handle showning the entire town without blocking it with fog, but the designers felt that the fog was important to the motif of the game. They choose good game design over elaborate graphics.

And ECCLES: Well, he's like Harry in that matter. They really have one-track minds in the game. Harry does the same thing in the original SH. "Damn, those bodies on those the wall are creepy. Let's go find Cheryl!" "Yeah, you've been changed into a zombie of sorts, but you're better now, so get off your ass and help me find Cheryl." "Yeah, yeah, all that stuff about gyromancy is all very interesting, but that doesn't help me find Cheryl, you creepy old bat!" "Wow, that nurse seems like she really needs support. Oh well, Cheryl's more important. I'm finding her."

There might be an explanation for the simple mindedness of Harry, but it deals with my theory that Harry is just a pawn for Dahlia. As things go with pawns, they don't think much about their tasks. But Harry isn't exactly your common pawn either. He tries to sort out his pridicament and gets detered from his mission occasionally, but then something happens to keep him going. If he tries to reason out the events of Silent Hill, his "mind goes blank." If he becomes detered from finding Cheryl, an image of her in trouble or a reminder of her is presented.

Take Midwich for example, after being in the alternate school a while, I'm sure he was ready to turn around and leave, but the phone call from Cheryl rekindled his search. Again, after wondering around Central Silent Hill, Cybil appears to tell Harry about a girl's whereabouts. Yet again, after traveling back and forth between the misty and alternate Silent Hills, Harry may have lacked some motivation, or have been tired of searching, but then the Town Square images appear to remind him of his objective: (quoting the Silent Hill game manual) "to find Cheryl."

Anyway, my point is that though Harry is a pawn, he still has his free will, though it is being influenced. So his one-track mindedness is somewhat forced, by Dahlia, I believe.

As to James' case, I believe that his mental condition combined with his denial and the influences of Silent Hill, make him really confused and unresponsive. You should also try to account that subconciously, James knows he did and that maybe the world around him isn't real. Though James doesn't show it much (like his happier side), he does have a darker side to him. His darker side may cause him to be nonchallant about the carnage and destruction, especially if you believe that the town is a projection of his mind.

Then again, James does react to and/or comment on the dead people in the tunnel where the radio is found, on the dead guys in the apartment buildings and on the deaths of the manniquins by PH. But, after he meets Maria, or at least passes through the alley behind the apartments, he stops reacting to that stuff (at least to a degree; he is still affected by Maria's deaths).

Also, after and probably during the fight with Eddie, James' subconcious is reminding him that he has killed a person before, so it is causing him confusion about his nature. The reason he says "Mary" after the fight is most likely because he needs to know that she is not dead to disprove his surfacing doubts about the cleanliness of his hands. He doesn't want to think he's crazy and by finding Mary, he thinks he can prove he's not. But really, he's just as crazy as they come.

I believe that the whole plot surrounding James' search for Mary is just to convince himself that he's not crazy, to justify his actions and to end his pain caused by his doubt and guilt. This state of mind is one of the hardest problems a psychologist can face and creates many different theories about how human nature works.

[Eccles]

>_>

I might start work on the AMV tonight

[ifirit]

If you'd like help on anything, feel free to ask me. Oh, and just so you know, I'm working on a Silent Hill game plot (well, more of a fan fiction) in the hopes of someday creating a game. Anyway, when I finish, I'll probably post it in this forum.

I don't want to give away too much, as I haven't finalize the plot skeleton, but it will be in the same manner as SH2 & SH4. However, I hope to add more influences from SH1 & SH3.

I will say that I have the opening scenes finished and a few character and monster designs started. The setting will include two sections of Central Silent Hill, because I'd like to see what the town would look like with PS2 or greater graphics.

[Eccles]

We've got plans for a monster in our silent hill game, but so far the doodles dont look very good, so I darent post

[ifirit]

O\ /O

|vvvvv|

|^^^^|

[Sentora]

Well so far I've seen all my questions answered but one: Does the radio have some importance as well other than a radar? There was that freaky Trick or treat show in the elevator in part two and it's been in all three games...

In Silent Hill 1, the radio was used to help show that the world of Silent Hill existed on a different plain of reality. The radio could not play any radio stations or recieve any other signals, but only pick up the strange static emitted by monsters. By suggesting that the town had no interferences from other electromagnetic sources, either the town was secluded from the rest of the world or that it existed on a different plain altogether. Either way, this meant that the town was becoming lost or hidden.

Also, note that the televisions didn't work in town (with the exception of the Town Center, Hospital Room 312 and Nowhere), "the phones are dead and cars have completely stopped running." Also, the radio allows us to know that the monsters emit strong electromagnetic waves, which suggests that they are not exactly flesh and blood; they lose their magnetism as they die. This is the strongest evidence that the monsters are supernatural beings and not just figments of the mind nor physical, in a tangilbe sense.

Don't misunderstand. In the world that Alessa/Cheryl has created, everything has a physical form, but I believe that it does not follow the same rules of matter and energy as our plain of existance. This is a very metaphysical suggestion, but it can explain why things are the way they are in Silent Hill. One way to show this is how monsters will just disappear after some time after they are killed. Though I can see how someone might say that that is just from limitations of the graphics engine, but I think it plays into the game.

The designers had a really good understanding of the engine used for the game and exploited some of the disadvantages or rather pushed the advantages to their limits in the first game. Think about how they were able to create a full 3-D world with good graphics, real weather effects, multiple camera effects and loads of other stuff that made it a well-rounded survival horror game. So, it can be infered that the majority of, if not all, the aspects of the game were thought out before hand and added into the story. *steps off soapbox*

*Nods* I understand now I think...so in sense, The radio is much like Egon's PKE meter from Ghostbusters or a gifted person's ablity to sense spirtual/paranormal energies. And ghosts or demons, although not bound by the same rules as this world can affect it. Thanks Ifirt. Makes me wonder who created it, or if the powers manipulating the main character manifiested it for them as a guide of sorts...

*Gets a thought and goes back to read a few of the theories again.*

Now this is probably a suck ass theory about Laura and Silent hill itself and all, but I'd thought I'd share it anyway since you guys helped inspire it, feel free to pick it apart.

In his post, Ironknuckle refered to Silent hill having a conciousness, composed of two sides, good and evil, light and dark, etc., just like a person. While he refered to it being Samael, is it possible that the town itself is also a entity itself with the same dual nature? From the rituals and all that spirtual/dark energies along with Samael's power, I wouldn't be surprised if it did develop it's own conciousness as a result of the mix. Kinda like how Frankenstien used lightling to bring his monster to life.

So if it's true and the town is alive, it could be having it's own conflict between it's good and evil sides, and actively seeks out contact to learn more about the world it's been removed from. Samael of course, exploits this by feeding off the pain and suffering of those that answers the town's call. 'Special people' like James, Eddie and Angela.

Some evidence of this is the fact that although Silent hill creates a personal hell for those who enter filled with the demons they bring within them, it also provides means for you to survive with all the items placed around to help you, giving clues or literally creates personas to interact with you. Which brings me to Laura and Maria.

Laura could be the physical manifestion of the town's inner struggle. It's innocence and darkness all at once in the form of a child because a Child has potiental for either depending on his/her enviorment. While she is the one to push James into discovering the truth and represent as his 'innocence' as Ifirit stated, her methods are rather extreme and show the darker nature her appearence hides but can't help control. Her search for Mary as a surrogate mother can be looked at as the town's need to nurture and grow and have a place in the world besides the role that Samael has created for it.

On the flip side of Laura is Maria, representing the darker half and the tool that Samael wants Silent hill to be. Like the town perverts one's perception, Maria perverted Mary's image to reflect what James secretly desired Mary to be. She allowed herself to be used to drag James deeper into his guilt and helplessness by being excuted repeatedly in front of him. This not only allowed Silent hill to 'keep' James kinda like a pet, but also made Samael stronger at the same time. The fact that Maria and Laura are never in the same place at the same time but aware of each other also shows that they could be one and the same and just switch forms when one side is winning the inner struggle. They both do have blond hair and act as James' primary influences. Further proof is how Maria in Mary's form during the Leave ending tries to kill James when he rejects her. Like how a child throws a tantrum and breaks a toy that won't work the way she wants.

While out on a limb here, I'd like to also say that while I wholeheartedly agree with the theories that Eddie and Angela represent parts of James' psyche, through a certain point of view they also can represent the Town itself. Samael would be no different from the abusive father that victimized Angela for his pleasure. And like Angela, Silent hill seeks redemption but in the end but ultimately gives in to Samael again and again. With that thought, you can look at the conversation between James and angela on the flaming stairway in a different light. Angela/Silent hill seeking help from those who come, only to be rejected and forced to accept the role that Samael has created. The same dual nature can even be heard in her voice every time you see her, first talking almost childlike then more adult as the conversation plays out.

Another hint to that connection is Angela's remark about seeing the flames all the time. Flames are a symbol of hell and Silent hill is hell on earth anyway you look at it So Silent hill accepts it's nature and continues to torture while seeking help at the same time. You could even look at Silent hill 1 for a mirror of the same persona and situation in Lisa Garland, seeking Harry's aid and pushed away in her last cut scene...

Eddie on the other hand, is simpler. He is both the town's anger at it's situation and rejection from those it calls, as well it's darkside's acceptance of Samael's evil nature. He also reminds James that Monsters come in human form as well.

Well...I've rambled on enough for now. Just a little brainstorm that kicked up at reading the theories. Hope you guys find something interesting in it all, even if just as a scratching post to tear into.

[Eccles]

Imagine two arms.

Imagine theyre joined to a head in the middle.

Imagine its covered in horribly burned, mutilated flesh.

THAT is my monster

[StarZander]

So... It's a flying head, with arms for ears? Or is it a head, still with arms for ears, that's walking around on these arms? What does it do? Breathe at you, with it's horrid breath fron hell?

Sorry.

[Eccles]

So... It's a flying head, with arms for ears? Or is it a head, still with arms for ears, that's walking around on these arms? What does it do? Breathe at you, with it's horrid breath fron hell?

Sorry.

It walks about on the arms.

Yeah, its hard to describe so when I get a GOOD drawing of it Ill post (the idea is that is wraps its arms round you like a hug before trying to collapse your ribcage)

[StarZander]

So... It's a flying head, with arms for ears? Or is it a head, still with arms for ears, that's walking around on these arms? What does it do? Breathe at you, with it's horrid breath fron hell?

Sorry.

It walks about on the arms.

Yeah, its hard to describe so when I get a GOOD drawing of it Ill post (the idea is that is wraps its arms round you like a hug before trying to collapse your ribcage)

Oooh, so it jumps up at you... maybe even bites you? Well... sounds Silent Hillish enough, but a drawing would still help. =)

[Eccles]

So... It's a flying head, with arms for ears? Or is it a head, still with arms for ears, that's walking around on these arms? What does it do? Breathe at you, with it's horrid breath fron hell?

Sorry.

It walks about on the arms.

Yeah, its hard to describe so when I get a GOOD drawing of it Ill post (the idea is that is wraps its arms round you like a hug before trying to collapse your ribcage)

Oooh, so it jumps up at you... maybe even bites you? Well... sounds Silent Hillish enough, but a drawing would still help. =)

No, it doesnt bite you...since the original plan was that it didnt have a head.

It's based off a monster in a british TV ad...the idea being that it wasnt a monster but a big fluffy thing that hugged people whenever they drank a cup-a-soup...

But thats just dumb and boring.

I prefer my bad-ass collapse your ribcage version

[StarZander]

So... It's a flying head, with arms for ears? Or is it a head, still with arms for ears, that's walking around on these arms? What does it do? Breathe at you, with it's horrid breath fron hell?

Sorry.

It walks about on the arms.

Yeah, its hard to describe so when I get a GOOD drawing of it Ill post (the idea is that is wraps its arms round you like a hug before trying to collapse your ribcage)

Oooh, so it jumps up at you... maybe even bites you? Well... sounds Silent Hillish enough, but a drawing would still help. =)

No, it doesnt bite you...since the original plan was that it didnt have a head.

It's based off a monster in a british TV ad...the idea being that it wasnt a monster but a big fluffy thing that hugged people whenever they drank a cup-a-soup...

But thats just dumb and boring.

I prefer my bad-ass collapse your ribcage version

So do I, my friend, so do I.

[Eccles]

Seriously, who wouldnt

[Night10194]

Lord, I have sinned, for I have been tempted sorely to attempt a fanfiction idea on SH, after I long ago swore off that sort of thing. Does this make me a horrible person?