Metroid: Other M

[Bleck]

it isn't really that her reaction doesn't make sense so much as it is that her reaction is something we don't really want to see

when ridley appears I want there to be at most five seconds between ridley appearing and me shooting ridley in the face, not a three minute goddamn cutscene where I break down into tears

[The Mutericator]

I agree completely with you. That middle section of Metroid fans think they're more hardcore than they are. Her reaction totally makes sense with the manga. She even has that panic attack when she thinks Ridley will kill all the Chozo. Now she thinks he's finally dead along with all the horror he's caused her, and here he is again, in perfect health. Plus, she clearly has PTSD, which functions just like this.

Too bad no one cares about the manga, huh? I realize I may not be THE BIGGEST METROID FAN EVER, but seriously, retconning her behavior of six fights with Ridley to fit some niche comic that only got fantranslated over here? That's utter bullshit. Sakamoto ignored the fans' perceptions of Samus - and no, it isn't just me - to make her more of a woman, less of an efficient bounty hunter and "strong" figure. Yes, PSTD would make sense - if she hadn't dealt with Ridley no less than six times before now.

Yes, I'm still angry about having one of my favorite gaming icons retconned into a generic weak female. She didn't NEED backstory, and she certainly didn't need shitty exposition to portray it.

[Invader_Quirk]

Too bad no one cares about the manga, huh? I realize I may not be THE BIGGEST METROID FAN EVER, but seriously, retconning her behavior of six fights with Ridley to fit some niche comic that only got fantranslated over here? That's utter bullshit. Sakamoto ignored the fans' perceptions of Samus - and no, it isn't just me - to make her more of a woman, less of an efficient bounty hunter and "strong" figure. Yes, PSTD would make sense - if she hadn't dealt with Ridley no less than six times before now.

Yes, I'm still angry about having one of my favorite gaming icons retconned into a generic weak female. She didn't NEED backstory, and she certainly didn't need shitty exposition to portray it.

Well, this isn't a routine battle with Ridley. He's supposed to be dead. It's a shock. And even if it was a normal, that's just how PTSD works. You never know when it will be triggered. You freeze up. No matter how many times you face it, it won't go away.

And no, Sakamoto didn't make her "more of a woman", he made her more of a human. Everybody has weaknesses. It has nothing to do with gender. And no, staying consistent to the manga is not a slap in the face to the fans. It's quite the opposite. If he'd ignored the established backstory, THAT would be a slap in the face to the fans. This is who Samus is and she's been this way for eight years at least. Sorry you didn't know.

And so what if he did change her? She didn't have any character. She was boring. I have no idea why she would be your favorite gaming icon. She was even more worthless a character of fiction than Master Chief.

[Brushfire]

Japan likes Money.

[Invader_Quirk]

Japan likes Money.

I'm not sure this really applies to a game that's such an obvious departure from what the fans are used to. If they just wanted to cash in, I think they'd have made the same game that was a huge hit in the past instead of taking such a big risk.

[Brushfire]

I'm not sure this really applies to a game that's such an obvious departure from what the fans are used to. If they just wanted to cash in, I think they'd have made the same game that was a huge hit in the past instead of taking such a big risk.

The game has awful controls and a story that is pretty lame.

Sounds like a normal Japanese game to me.

[Invader_Quirk]

The game has awful controls and a story that is pretty lame.

Sounds like a normal Japanese game to me.

Wow. I don't even need to say anything, do I?

[Brushfire]

Wow. I don't even need to say anything, do I?

TROLLlN 2 DA MAX!!

[EC2151]

To reiterate Bleck pages back:

Samus actually has a pretty good character as established in the Metroid series.

M2, Super, Prime, Fusion, Echoes... these all show Samus has some character and personality traits...

As well as the fact that the gameplay shows Samus doing incredibly badass things constantly.

So it's unfair to say that she has little character.

It's not like Link, where there is quite literally NOTHING to go off of (outside of say, maybe Wind Waker).

You know, I've been thinking:

Most of Samus' dialogues in this game do not show any character whatsoever.

She's usually just monologuing on stuff that had just happened. Or exposition.

That's not exactly character development.

EDIT:

interesting topic on the infamous Ridley scene:

http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/81909/ptsd-or-weakness-real-experts-on-why-samus-didnt-shoot/

[Overflow]

That's a really good read. It also makes sense that she wouldn't have such an issue in Zero Mission because she knew he was there and she was looking for him.

In Prime, she was shocked, but mostly angered because he flew off and she had an idea of the Pirate's future plans for Ridley after seeing Mecha Ridley.

In Prime 3, she knew she hadn't destroyed Ridley in Prime 1, and wasn't too surprised to see him again.

In Super, she probably thought she had killed him, and was unable to fight well, which is why she loses her first encounter with him on Ceres.

In Other M, she's certain that even his remains have been obliterated, so it makes sense that this time she would really suffer from PTSD.

[The Mutericator]

Or, you know, because she was poorly equipped when she was on Ceres.

I think Samus' previous personality - the compassion she shows the body of the GF trooper captain in Echoes, the dedication she shows to tracking down the last Metroid in Super, her stop on the way out of Prime to look over the Ruins as they crumble to the ground - were more than enough to give her a proper character.

Yes, you can haggle around and try to justify the PSTD, but in the end, it was still completely unnecessary, just like most of the dialogue (and monologueing!) in the game. It still has a crappy story, it still doesn't make sense with what we've seen in the other games (no matter how many retcons Sakamoto might make, or obscure the source material people might quote), and it's still a rug pulled out from under the fans.

[RDX]

while that was a good article...

i agree with one of the comments i read. he was arguing that the main problem with the new game is that samus always seemed introverted, not getting anyone involved with her own issues like most ptsd suffering folk do, and then all of a sudden in other m she's telling anthony stories about adam and how she tried to save his little brother, and she's screaming aloud when she confronts ridley, and...

it's just way too over dramatized. i can accept samus is traumatized, i just don't think the scene, and the entirety of the story, was done very well. that guy who showed the soldier that scene should've also showed him the ridiculous ending scene with mb and the soldiers and all that.

[EC2151]

I'd agree about the story, mostly.

When it concerns Samus.

I actually really liked the whole mystery regarding the Bottle Ship, the Deleter, and Madeline Bergman. I thought that was pretty exciting and always looked forward to each new plot development.

The problem is that that plot took a backseat the monologuing.

[Cerrax]

Metroid went downhill after Super Metroid. What little story they had was good enough. With Prime, they went overboard, adding all kinds of backstory, trying link games together that really didn't belong together. Let's all admit that the only reason they made up the whole Ridley/MetaRidley/MechaRidely thing is so their most recognizable villain could pop up over and over again. It's lame story telling and I'm sick of it.

Metroid needs to reboot, forget all the crap they added since 1994, and stop trying to make Samus into a dramatic character. She's a lone bounty hunter. End of story.

[RDX]

I'd agree about the story, mostly.

When it concerns Samus.

I actually really liked the whole mystery regarding the Bottle Ship, the Deleter, and Madeline Bergman. I thought that was pretty exciting and always looked forward to each new plot development.

The problem is that that plot took a backseat the monologuing.

The deleter subplot was handling perfectly. I was surprised when the dramatic face off scene I expected to have to endure through never happened. You don't have to explain everything, and Sakamoto got that.

but,I just didn't like the anime-esque "slow-mo spinning, women screaming every 5 seconds" ending. melissa bergman deserved a less awkward death.

And if you think about it, Cerrax has a point, but really all Nintendo titles have that problem. I'm especially sick of Ganon, and I don't mind Bowser too much because it's not like anyone looks forward to those fights anyway.

[Ray Falling]

In that case, would you guys agree that it is sometimes better to not continue on a series at all to ensure that it keeps its original glory as a whole and never have it taken away?

For me, certain franchises are just 'done' and I look back at them with fond memories. Like...Starfox has all Starfox ever needs in Lylatwars (i.m.o). And F-zero has all F-zero needs in F-zero GX (again i.m.o), just to name a few.

Yet at the same time, I do hunger for graphical updates of my old favourite games...they just usually end up having bad gameplay instead.

As much as I want to see Donkey Kong Country Returns, I'm already fearing it'll go down the same path of recent games on the Wii. Same goes for the new Kirby game.

I guess the only way you could get away with repeat performances (like the return of Ridley) is when you make sure people get that the game is compeletely separate from any other Metroid game ever. Which they don't.

Then again, maybe sometimes you just need to be honest with yourself, as a game designer, and admit that there's just not much more you can do with your initial idea. (Like Mario...and Sonic...and Metroid and Kirby...and Zelda...and Halo...)

[Cerrax]

In that case, would you guys agree that it is sometimes better to not continue on a series at all to ensure that it keeps its original glory as a whole and never have it taken away?

I wouldn't say that. I mean you can almost always re-invent and improve an idea. I let Starfox Adventures slide because, hey, they were trying something new. It didn't work out. What killed Starfox, was when they returned to the prior formula and totally messed it up. DO NOT FIX IT IF IT ISN'T MOTHERF***ING BROKEN.

[Ray Falling]

I wouldn't say that. I mean you can almost always re-invent and improve an idea. I let Starfox Adventures slide because, hey, they were trying something new. It didn't work out. What killed Starfox, was when they returned to the prior formula and totally messed it up. DO NOT FIX IT IF IT ISN'T MOTHERF***ING BROKEN.

Having given it more thought, I guess we can best hope that new ideas work out at least some of the time. Either way, a new entry in a series cannot take away anything from the entries in the series that we do like.

But to be fair, more often than not we are left with disappointment. I wish developers would reach out to "us" more by involving us in the development process. I realize money and time will always be an issue, but some sort of pre-final build feedback could really help improve a game. That is, as long as the group giving feedback is balanced and not of the "It needs more rockets!" mindset

[Nabeel Ansari]

Stop bitching about story and her status as a robot vs. weak woman.

It's just a video game.

Don't like it, don't play it; should be simple as that.

EDIT: IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME.

EDIT 2: IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME.

[Avatar of Justice]

But to be fair, more often than not we are left with disappointment. I wish developers would reach out to "us" more by involving us in the development process. I realize money and time will always be an issue, but some sort of pre-final build feedback could really help improve a game. That is, as long as the group giving feedback is balanced and not of the "It needs more rockets!" mindset

This sort of undermines the whole idea of creative vision though. I personally want a work of art to be whatever the creator wants it to be, not what I or the fans want it to be. If I end up not liking it, that's my problem, not his (beyond that whole money making business). Using fan feedback and demographic checks tends to water products down and make them much less risky and innovative. Sure, Other M's risks don't seem to be terribly popular. But a game like Resident Evil 4 broke from the traditional RE mold and ended up being a really great game.

Just looking at fan sentiment, if we went by the fans, Metroid would simply become continual level add-ons for Super Metroid. I for one, despite liking Super Metroid, would not buy those.

[Overflow]

Exactly. If you guys wanted to play Super Metroid again, then why not, you know, go and play Super Metroid again?

I think this is something we're going to have to agree to disagree on. Some of us (including myself) felt that character development was necessary and that the scene with Ridley made sense. Other don't think character development was necessary. We're not going to be able to change each other's opinions on this.

Personally, I'm glad they tried to give Samus a character. Was it a smash success? No, I don't think so. But I am glad they tried, and I hope they do a better job next time.

I Think we've got enough Lone-Wolf Silent-Hero characters out there. Link, Master Chief, Gordon Freeman, just to name a few. The only way for Nintendo to improve is for them to get support. If Other M is a huge financial disaster, it's possible we may not ever see another Metroid. At least, not for a very long time.

Actually, this would make a good topic for Extra Creditz...

[Nabeel Ansari]

I like how they're calling Metroid: Other M (or rather, Brushfire is) a cash-in.

I thought a cash-in would be more along the lines of just copying a successful idea they had before? (aka Call of Duty type)

Judging from previous Extra Credits videos I think sephfire would agree with Nintendo taking risks...

[The Mutericator]

Exactly. If you guys wanted to play Super Metroid again, then why not, you know, go and play Super Metroid again?

I think this is something we're going to have to agree to disagree on. Some of us (including myself) felt that character development was necessary and that the scene with Ridley made sense. Other don't think character development was necessary. We're not going to be able to change each other's opinions on this.

Personally, I'm glad they tried to give Samus a character. Was it a smash success? No, I don't think so. But I am glad they tried, and I hope they do a better job next time.

I Think we've got enough Lone-Wolf Silent-Hero characters out there. Link, Master Chief, Gordon Freeman, just to name a few. The only way for Nintendo to improve is for them to get support. If Other M is a huge financial disaster, it's possible we may not ever see another Metroid. At least, not for a very long time.

Actually, this would make a good topic for Extra Creditz...

I agree, there's no chance we're going to be able to change each other's opinions, but I am curious as to what other Lone-Wolf Silent-Heroine types you know of. As far as I know, the lone female bounty hunter type isn't really overplayed in video games... especially in Nintendo titles.

[EC2151]

I doubt this is the last we've seen of Metroid games considering that this game is selling very damn well. Considering that it's topping sales charts all around....

Hey, nintendo, you see what happens when you ADVERTISE a fucking METROID TITLE?

[Invader_Quirk]

I agree, there's no chance we're going to be able to change each other's opinions, but I am curious as to what other Lone-Wolf Silent-Heroine types you know of. As far as I know, the lone female bounty hunter type isn't really overplayed in video games... especially in Nintendo titles.

But that's like saying Master Chief is better than the other long wolves because HE has green armor. I personally just don't care if she's a woman. That simple fact doesn't make her better. If she's shallow, she's shallow.

But no, nobody here is going to change eachother's minds. I am disappointed by the backlash, as I feel it may discourage the creators from continuing on a path they're passionate about and that I really like, but you're obviously entitled to your opinions.