Scrap McNapps Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I was trying to put a Latin, Funky type of vibe to this. I shared this with a few people that I know and the feedback so far has been positive. My main concern with this is the mixing and the mastering. If any of you have any other advice on how I can make this even better it would be greatly appreciated. Just to warn you it's long... like 4:30. This is the source http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlkRGyLZSM Here is the latest one. I used bongo samples of a slightly different character and threw in some reverb and compression. I adjusted the velocities of the bongos so it should sound less monotone. I also adjusted the velocities of the rest of the notes as well. I put some compression on the electric bass so the softer notes should come out a bit louder now. I compressed the horns as well, but just a touch. Even slighter update. The trumpets in the intro were weak. So I adjusted the velocitiy of the notes on there and other parts of the songs where I felt emphasis was more important. As for the guitar that plays in the intro, I just boosted the volume a bit. I also fixed the panning for the bongo solo as it was broken. Well I made a couple of changes. -I added a layer to the Horns and the Latin Percussion section -I replaced the bongo only section of the introduction with the electric guitar. -I joined the separate melodies of the first verse and put it all in one. -I attempted to make a smooth transition from the first verse to the second verse using the initial guitar melody. -There is a horn buildup in the second verse. -Most of the latin percussion variation is in the second verse and breakdown. -Used a different ending for the arrangement. A couple of changes were made sequence wise The bass should carry the melody, but it switches up about 2/3s of the way through to make it less boring. Still using the same instruments but trying different horn samples. Though integrating it into the tune is still a work in progress. I stopped being stingy and I reverbed the HELL out of this one, I used two different quality reverbs for the instruments and one insert for the master so they all sound like they are in the same area. I just hope I didn't put in too much. Still working on the drum pattern and ending. So this newer one I am posting is using a different bass. I adjusted the reverbs and levels so the horns should sound closer. The drums I added are the same ones I used in the past, but I varied the patterns a bit more in certain areas. I took out the chords in the guitar and put it back the way it was originally. Still working on an ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Intro has a lot of more or less unprocessed percussion. Drums overall are weak, and the intro seems mostly like one where tracks are just added to one another, not really written to be an intro. Bass is terribly high, needs go at least one octave down, probably best to give it a bass amp sim or something to give it a more processed sound. That actually seems to be the case with most of the tracks, they're not focused enough. Focus can be achieved with EQ, reverb, and other effects to bring out the important tracks and push the others back. That takes a bit of practice before you know how, tho. This seems to be a pretty blocky arrangement, not many lead-ins, transitions and such, mostly the same writing with different layers coming in or out. It gets repetitive. Repetitive arrangement and unprocessed sound means you should take a backup of this, practice different effects, changes, stuff. Don't take this the wrong way, but this track is quite a way from having a shot at getting on ocr. That said, it's an original arrangement, a cool idea, and worth working on, if only for the practice. I hope these crits don't get you down. Good luck with the track. Oh and what's Zelda's Lullaby doing in the end of a Mario remix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Real talks, I appreciate this advice. I'll try and find a bass guitar sample that can go lower. You also said my tracks weren't focused enough. Besides the advice you gave about adding focus, could part of my problem also be that I am trying to make all of my tracks the same level? Will it help to lower the volumes of some of my other tracks so that the important ones will pop out more? Also could you give me a link to a book or website on effective EQing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Everything at the same volume? lol That's not a good mix. For a number of reasons, like how high frequencies are easier to hear than low ones, and for the simple reason that if you arrange it to have a lead and a beat, those parts should stand out more. Volume is a way to make them stand out. IMO good EQ-ing is like good volume mixing: you give the right tracks the right volumes, except now you think about which frequencies in the tracks you want to have loud and which ones you want soft. The usual example: a pad and a lead. The pad has highs, lows, and mids. The lead has mostly mids and some highs. Cut a few dB from the pad's mids and highs so the lead sounds more clear. When you have more instruments than that, you have to listen for the EQ fixes you need to make. bass drum and bass need their balance, harmonic backing needs its place, snare needs its place... It's more complicated because you have more tracks to consider, but it doesn't actually change what you do much. And in case it wasn't clear, every track you EQ will need its own EQ. Master EQ-ing doesn't separate tracks the way individual EQ-ing does. For further help, google it. A lot of the hits I got from a quick trip to google were about recorded instruments, but the principles behind the sound are the same. You don't have to worry about mic bleed and stuff like that tho. Also, check out the guides and tutorials on ocr, iirc zircon had something about effects, including eq, in his remixing compendium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Okay will do. I really do want to get better at this. Looks like I have my work cut out for me.I better get started. Thanks again. I'll see what I can get done. I also better check out one of the books I bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Is this what you meant by having my tracks more focused? http://limelinx.com/files/c75092a4e1ce40269d1848735b326869 EDIT: Listening to it, I can see what you meant by the Zelda's Lullaby ending. lol. I think they use the same notes, that's why it came out like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 I was playing around with the track a bit more. I added an intro, percussion solo, shortened a bit of the outro and I also changed the Bass guitar sample so it should sound lower. The drums should come out more clearly now. Added reverb to a few of the tracks. Still trying to come up with better transitions.If it sounds better or worse I would like to hear your feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Here is my third revision. I added varied the drum patterns a bit more and slightly altered the intro. I also gave more Jazz Guitar more play in the song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 First off, Scrap McNapps is an awesome screen name. Anyways, this definitely came a long way from the first version you had up on here. The production seems miles better now. It took me a little while to heard the source in there, but once you hear and remember the source from the game, its all there where it needs to be. It seems the drums stand out very nicely now. The bass line is kickin', but not intrusive. The little thing you add like the whistle and nice cuban sounding trumpet section are a very nice touch. I think that its almost there. Then again, good ol' Rozo would be a better judge of EQ. Even though i spend hours writing/recording music, and i'm still working on my skills. Good luck, and i think its almost ready! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmowthp Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I think the you need to turn down some mids and lows on the snare, but it may also be the level of the bass helping to give the snare that quality. If you are going to stick with the trumpet patch, I highly recommend getting a live player, or you can change it to some warm sounding synth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks for the feedback everyone! It's greatly appreciated. Turn down the mids and lows on the snare? I'll try that and see how it comes out. =) I don't have access to a live trumpet player, but I'll see if I can tweak the trumpets to make it sound warmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 I made some minor tweaks with this one. I lowered the mids and lows of the snare and tried to add some warmth to the trumpets (not too sure if it worked out or not). I also noticed that after I added that Jazz Guitar section from 2:06-2:41, the Electric Bass wasn't doing it's job which is to "complement" the Guitar, so I changed the notes it so that it does in that time frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I made some minor tweaks with this one. I lowered the mids and lows of the snare and tried to add some warmth to the trumpets (not too sure if it worked out or not). I also noticed that after I added that Jazz Guitar section from 2:06-2:41, the Electric Bass wasn't doing it's job which is to "complement" the Guitar, so I changed the notes it so that it does in that time frame. The beginning sounds like Zelda's lullaby... I never noticed that one when I listened to the source, I don't think you have the right notes. Edit: I just checked and you indeed have the wrong notes. xD It's not A D G It's A E B (if you started on a different note just translate the others notes down or up) Perhaps I should give you the whole song: G A E B G A E B B C C# D A E C D A E B G A F E D C B The last few notes were probably your own variation; But the beginning sounds like Zelda's lullably when it shouldn't. I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet. Shame to you all. :tomatoface: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Well, it takes a while to get into it, but when it does, it's not bad, cept I think the trumpet seems to be off key; may just be me. Also, the soundscape needs to be filled out more and the over-all track needs more energy. Of course, if this intended to be a chill mix then you can disregard the latter. I think the main issues are production and certain parts of the trumpet that seem to conflict with the key of the rest of the track. These aren't terribly tough fixes, but can be challenging if you're new to this stuff. Keep at her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 The beginning sounds like Zelda's lullaby... I never noticed that one when I listened to the source, I don't think you have the right notes.Edit: I just checked and you indeed have the wrong notes. xD It's not A D G It's A E B (if you started on a different note just translate the others notes down or up) Perhaps I should give you the whole song: G A E B G A E B B C C# D A E C D A E B G A F E D C B The last few notes were probably your own variation; But the beginning sounds like Zelda's lullably when it shouldn't. I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet. It's been hinted at, but I thought that I had the right notes. Using the notes you gave me, you were right, I had the wrong dang notes LOL. Thanks alot! It now sounds more closer to the source. I'm gonna debate using the last seven notes of the original score or the variation. Well, it takes a while to get into it, but when it does, it's not bad, cept I think the trumpet seems to be off key; may just be me. Also, the soundscape needs to be filled out more and the over-all track needs more energy. Of course, if this intended to be a chill mix then you can disregard the latter. I think the main issues are production and certain parts of the trumpet that seem to conflict with the key of the rest of the track. These aren't terribly tough fixes, but can be challenging if you're new to this stuff. Keep at her That's strange, I thought the trumpets were in key for the most part. I have two trumpets and a brass ensemble in there, is it notably the trumpets or the ensemble? . As for the energy, it is meant to be more on the chill side, but I might try something. Gonna have to research and experiment though. Thank you two for the feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 It's been hinted at, but I thought that I had the right notes. Using the notes you gave me, you were right, I had the wrong dang notes LOL. Thanks alot! It now sounds more closer to the source. I'm gonna debate using the last seven notes of the original score or the variation.That's strange, I thought the trumpets were in key for the most part. I have two trumpets and a brass ensemble in there, is it notably the trumpets or the ensemble? . As for the energy, it is meant to be more on the chill side, but I might try something. Gonna have to research and experiment though. Thank you two for the feedback! They should slap a warning label in the submission rules: "Warning: Be sure to not confuse source with other source from other games." xDD The trumpets not so off key as it is kinda quiet and dry. Just overall fake sounding trumpet. Also those conga drums are fake sounding too, vary the velocities on those. Also, the variation is fine, just doesn't sound like something recurring; maybe the variation for the intro and the rest is the same as the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Further tweaks to the song. For one thing I am using the proper notes. XD. A also experiemented with different velocities for instruments (notably the Brass Ensamble and Trumpets). I tried a different method of using the reverb effect which I hope came out okay. Structure-wise, used a different latin percussion pattern for the first chours. And I threw in some more brass in the second verse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Further tweaks to the song. For one thing I am using the proper notes. XD. A also experiemented with different velocities for instruments (notably the Brass Ensamble and Trumpets). I tried a different method of using the reverb effect which I hope came out okay. Structure-wise, used a different latin percussion pattern for the first chours. And I threw in some more brass in the second verse. That's much better, but still: Those bongos: Gotta get replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 That's much better, but still:Those bongos: Gotta get replaced. Yeah I'm having a heck of a time trying to get them to sound right. Gonna keep working on 'em. Got some more listening to do. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 give me a midi of your bongos, I'll spice 'em up for you, and give you a .wav file for you to import into your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Okay I have been youtubing some bongo sounds and tried to adjust accordingly. Here is what I came up with. http://www.zshare.net/audio/6399409195d8ebd5/ Am I getting any closer to the right type of bongo sound? Here is the midi btw. http://www.zshare.net/audio/6399381556bd5ed4/ Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Well no what I was referring to is that your bongo sound is low quality and sounds fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrap McNapps Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Well no what I was referring to is that your bongo sound is low quality and sounds fake. Dang. I thought they sounded good on the Ableton website. Well I better get to hunting for some better bongo sounds then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hey Scrap, I just realized that I don't have any bongo samples that sound like yours, my GM is different =l HOWEVER, I did figure out the issue at hand - it's not so much the quality of your samples that's a problem, it's the humanization. Each note velocity is the same - no human can do that. Not even Daniel Lippert, although he almost plays like a machine Anyhoo, all you need to do is vary the note velocities. I saw that Neblix had an issue with your bongo sampels themselves, but eh, they're passable in my opinion - might need some EQ tweaking and other stuff - I'm not really a production pro, so this is the best I can give in the way of tips. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Intro has a lot of more or less unprocessed percussion. Plus I am evil Asides from the latter remark, Rozo is quite right - these drums could use some compression and some better EQ - if you don't know how to EQ, just look it up on youtube - I'm sure there are like 1 billion tutorials on how to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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