Yes, Another Chrono Trigger Remix...

[Doni]

I've made a electro remix of the Chrono Trigger song "Corridors of time"... another one you say?! Well yes, many people have remixed this song... but this one is a bit of a different approach.

The intro is very aural sounding... it doesn't sound like electro house at all. Then it transforms into a floor shaker. I really love the original and I wanted to make something that I could place into my DJ sets that calm ppl down and then rock their socks off. Sort of a transitional intro. Hopefully you guys like it. After I get a bit of feedback I'll submit this one I think. The link is below:

Doni - Trigga (Corridors of Time Remix)

[Catharsis]

I like this overall, but when the drums start to hit at 2:04, I really thought it was going to lead up to really opening up, but when the drums really start, they feel held back and/or muffled to me. If that's the effect you're going for, it's good. Maybe it's just a personal taste thing, but I think it'd sound better if you opened them up more. They feel "confined". (I just can't hit the world I'm looking for.)

[jmr]

Thanks for the tip I'm going to post it there as well I suppose

Might want to get a mod to merge the two threads for you.

...

(Now, after pointing that out, I feel obligated to listen to your remix. )

First impression: 'tis good.

The string instruments that come in at 0:30 and 1:35 (and 1:01 to a lesser extent) sound a little fake, but when the other parts come in I didn't notice it as much. Still, tracking down some better sounds (or at least tweaking the ones you're using a little more) might be a good idea.

The bit at 2:20 kinda caught me off guard at first... until the beat came back two seconds later... man, good stuff.

Not a fan of the snare pattern you start at 2:55 and 5:16. Seems out of place to me.

I think it might be a good idea to trim the length down a bit too. Some parts began to overstay their welcome, so to speak. I think that if you could somehow remove 1 or 2 minutes or so by trimming some of the more repetitive / redundant parts, your remix would be better for it.

I can't really comment on your arrangement of the source; I'm not that familiar with the original.

[Gario]

From the last thread - when I talk about sidechaining I mean when you purposely clip out the sound of other instruments in order to give room for your drums (or whatever instrument). If you didn't do that effect throughout your song on purpose then your song is overcompressed and clipping at those parts.

That's what I'm talking about

[The Vagrance]

Just random things I'm noting about your mix:

1. Takes way too long for the drums to come in, the track should build up to when the kick drops in but instead the track has already ebbed and flowed by the time the kick makes its first appearance.

2. Really there's been very little done to the track arrangement wise, I mean even the arp sounds like the exact same one used in the original, this track just feels like the original with a drum loop, bassline, and synth presets.

3. Maybe its just me but the actual electro house elements feel lame, the kick is too hollow and the snare has more "snap" than punch. Yes, you got the idea to grime things up but you're dirtying up the wrong elements in the mix. The kick should be felt more than it is heard, let it punch through rather than setting it on a basic 4/4 groove and have it lead everything along.

4. I like the basic rhythm and melody to the bassline but do more with it, have points where it just gets distorted and messy, have points where it grooves heavy, have points where it does both, but at the moment the kick is driving the mix too much.

Granted, part of the point of remixing is to pay homage to the original tracks, but the other part is to put your own personal stamp on the remix and interpret the particular theme from the game how you experienced it. At the moment it feels generic and haphazard, focus less on the concept and more on the style, you dig?

[Strife89]

I've never played Chrono Trigger (although every day my desire for a cartridge grows), but I've grown quite fond of a number of remixes of its music on this site. Your take on Corridor of Time is no exception.

[Doni]

I like this overall, but when the drums start to hit at 2:04, I really thought it was going to lead up to really opening up, but when the drums really start, they feel held back and/or muffled to me. If that's the effect you're going for, it's good. Maybe it's just a personal taste thing, but I think it'd sound better if you opened them up more. They feel "confined". (I just can't hit the world I'm looking for.)

Hmm, well I did intentionally muffle them with reverb when they came in... I wanted to drop to be more shocking when the "solid" beat comes through. But I will consider this! Thanks for your thoughts

[Doni]

I've never played Chrono Trigger (although every day my desire for a cartridge grows), but I've grown quite fond of a number of remixes of its music on this site. Your take on Corridor of Time is no exception.

I'm glad you like it. Actually, you simply must play this game. It is superb and truly one of the best games of all time. The music is an added bonus; even with total silence this game would have been among the greatest.

[Doni]

From the last thread - when I talk about sidechaining I mean when you purposely clip out the sound of other instruments in order to give room for your drums (or whatever instrument). If you didn't do that effect throughout your song on purpose then your song is overcompressed and clipping at those parts.

That's what I'm talking about

hmm Let me see what I can muddle with... I must admit I am going for the super compressed sound (almost every track has a color compressor on it)

What sounds do you think seem like they are clipping? Besides the drum kick, I guess, but thats definitely intentional...

[Doni]

Thanks for your very detailed analysis! Let's see if I can pick your brain a bit more, if you dont mind of course

Just random things I'm noting about your mix:

1. Takes way too long for the drums to come in, the track should build up to when the kick drops in but instead the track has already ebbed and flowed by the time the kick makes its first appearance.

Oh, I know, it does have a long intro for sure. Actually this is what I was going for. I'm an house/electro DJ and I wanted a song that would phase people out and be a nice little segway. So perhaps it may seem a little long as a standalone track, but I probably won't change this

2. Really there's been very little done to the track arrangement wise, I mean even the arp sounds like the exact same one used in the original, this track just feels like the original with a drum loop, bassline, and synth presets.

Point taken. To be honest I listened to all the other corridors remixes and thought that most of them didn't do anything to the arrangement. But despite this, my goal was simply to "awesomeize" the arrangement. To be fair, I programmed the drums and added to the bassline in the electro section... I did arp the snyth for the last section and the outro was completely different at least

3. Maybe its just me but the actual electro house elements feel lame, the kick is too hollow and the snare has more "snap" than punch. Yes, you got the idea to grime things up but you're dirtying up the wrong elements in the mix. The kick should be felt more than it is heard, let it punch through rather than setting it on a basic 4/4 groove and have it lead everything along.

I usually struggle with kicks, perhaps I could layer another meatier sounding kick underneath to give it some added depth. I'm sorry to say but electro house is always on a basic 4/4 groove... I appreciate all kinds of music very deeply but in this case I think you might need to consider that you just don't like the style. But what elements do you think I should be dirtying up instead of the bass and in some parts the synth?

4. I like the basic rhythm and melody to the bassline but do more with it, have points where it just gets distorted and messy, have points where it grooves heavy, have points where it does both, but at the moment the kick is driving the mix too much.

Ok, let me try this. Originally I wanted to do this but I don't want it to get too complicated. I want the song to flow and in the past I've been told I'm doing too much with the elements and making them too busy. The kick drives thei mix in this type of music...

Granted, part of the point of remixing is to pay homage to the original tracks, but the other part is to put your own personal stamp on the remix and interpret the particular theme from the game how you experienced it. At the moment it feels generic and haphazard, focus less on the concept and more on the style, you dig?

I dig... let me see what I can do to personalize it more. For me, the synth and arragement is perfection; so I can't justify changing it too much. I was attempting to "awesomeize".. but I have considered your points and will likely update soon. Hopefully you can provide a bit more insight based on my comments here. thanks!

[The Vagrance]

Hopefully you can provide a bit more insight based on my comments here. thanks!

Gladly!

Oh, I know, it does have a long intro for sure. Actually this is what I was going for. I'm an house/electro DJ and I wanted a song that would phase people out and be a nice little segway. So perhaps it may seem a little long as a standalone track, but I probably won't change this

Its not so much the long intro that irks me, as the fact that generally intros are supposed to either:

a. Build up constantly until the drop

or

b. Build up until the breakdown before the drop, then build up again immediately.

The problem is, you essentially go through the entire song, and then drop into the main section, maybe you could try expanding a section of the song a bit more before moving on to the next?

Point taken. To be honest I listened to all the other corridors remixes and thought that most of them didn't do anything to the arrangement. But despite this, my goal was simply to "awesomeize" the arrangement. To be fair, I programmed the drums and added to the bassline in the electro section... I did arp the snyth for the last section and the outro was completely different at least

Yeah, I'm well aware of the challenge of mixing up the arrangement considering you probably listened to my mix . That said, I wasn't specifically referring to the arrangement in terms of notes, but rather the overall structure, tone, and atmosphere of the piece. I understand your goal to "awesomeize" the arrangement but instead of simply adding synths try to nail a feeling to it. Try to make it feel like you're stuck in the underwater dungeon (Its been a long time since I've played Chrono Trigger) and the machines are pulsating around you and the guards are attempting to seize you, something like that.

And I liked the outro, but talking about things I liked is boring.

I usually struggle with kicks, perhaps I could layer another meatier sounding kick underneath to give it some added depth. I'm sorry to say but electro house is always on a basic 4/4 groove... I appreciate all kinds of music very deeply but in this case I think you might need to consider that you just don't like the style. But what elements do you think I should be dirtying up instead of the bass and in some parts the synth?

No, I'm definitely familiar with electro house, what I'm saying is that you're relying to much on your kick to provide the groove. Take for example this electro house track: (

). Notice how the bass and kick play off of each other and the drums pump in and out, also notice the subtle percussion in the upbeat. House thrives on funky grooves, hell thats pretty much the entire basis for minimal house/techno right now.

As for the kick, you may want to just start with finding a different sample as opposed to layering a bunch on and hoping something good comes out; you may want to play with your setting on your compressor but much more importantly EQ your kick wisely. That said, layering a 909 kick almost always will fatten up a kick without being overwhelming, so thats never a bad place to start.

Ok, let me try this. Originally I wanted to do this but I don't want it to get too complicated. I want the song to flow and in the past I've been told I'm doing too much with the elements and making them too busy. The kick drives thei mix in this type of music...

There's a lot going on in the arrangement so interpreting it is tricky and I don't have a rock solid answer for you as to how you should go about it, but always remember: "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

And sorry if it seems like I'm being harsh, but I'd much rather tell you what I think is wrong than to tell you "nice work" and move on. Also, don't think for a second that I'm right on some of this stuff, you can choose to ignore what you want, but I'm giving my opinion from the standpoint of someone who listens to a lot of drum and bass, underground rap, and weird punk/post-hardcore/indie rock.

[Doni]

Its not so much the long intro that irks me, as the fact that generally intros are supposed to either:

a. Build up constantly until the drop

or

b. Build up until the breakdown before the drop, then build up again immediately.

The problem is, you essentially go through the entire song, and then drop into the main section, maybe you could try expanding a section of the song a bit more before moving on to the next?

Picture this track mixed after a fairly strong track. The intro bells could be looped and mixed into the end of the previous track. Slowly the drums from the prior track would verb out and disintegrate and at that point i'd let this track take over. I wanted this arrangement to work in that context and for people who have never heard this song before. BUT i will consider this for my updated version

Yeah, I'm well aware of the challenge of mixing up the arrangement considering you probably listened to my mix . That said, I wasn't specifically referring to the arrangement in terms of notes, but rather the overall structure, tone, and atmosphere of the piece. I understand your goal to "awesomeize" the arrangement but instead of simply adding synths try to nail a feeling to it. Try to make it feel like you're stuck in the underwater dungeon (Its been a long time since I've played Chrono Trigger) and the machines are pulsating around you and the guards are attempting to seize you, something like that.

I know exactly what you mean... I guess I'm just trying to make sure this track works with the rest of the music I normally play in my DJ sets

And I liked the outro, but talking about things I liked is boring.

hahaha it's called encouragement lol

No, I'm definitely familiar with electro house, what I'm saying is that you're relying to much on your kick to provide the groove. Take for example this electro house track: (

). Notice how the bass and kick play off of each other and the drums pump in and out, also notice the subtle percussion in the upbeat. House thrives on funky grooves, hell thats pretty much the entire basis for minimal house/techno right now.

I see what you mean. I might change it up in some parts. Add a little bit of spice here and there. But, I really wanted the progressions to speak for themselves. The beat is important, but it just needs to reinforce the progression. Overall I wasn't really impressd with that track much. It's not the kind of electro I'm much into. I know what you are refering too though, take a listen to an original track of mine and tell me if you find the same problems here: http://www.donimusic.com/projects/The%20Evil%20Dr.%20Claw%20-%20We%20are%20Forboding.mp3

As for the kick, you may want to just start with finding a different sample as opposed to layering a bunch on and hoping something good comes out; you may want to play with your setting on your compressor but much more importantly EQ your kick wisely. That said, layering a 909 kick almost always will fatten up a kick without being overwhelming, so thats never a bad place to start.

I'll probably do that. My current kick cuts through the mix well, but it might sound weak on some systems. I guess it might lack some power

There's a lot going on in the arrangement so interpreting it is tricky and I don't have a rock solid answer for you as to how you should go about it, but always remember: "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

You are wise, young one.

And sorry if it seems like I'm being harsh, but I'd much rather tell you what I think is wrong than to tell you "nice work" and move on. Also, don't think for a second that I'm right on some of this stuff, you can choose to ignore what you want, but I'm giving my opinion from the standpoint of someone who listens to a lot of drum and bass, underground rap, and weird punk/post-hardcore/indie rock.

You've got some good points. I think its possible to make some adjustments to move towards pleasing while not displeasing the majority of those who like it. Criticism is the only way to improve, I am in fact quite thankful for your meticulous analysis. I'll let everyone know when I post up another version.. probably in a couple days or so...

[Doni]

Hey everybody

I've updated the track... closer to a final version now I believe!

Here's what I changed:

• Changed some instruments in the intro part
  
• added a few samples for some atmospherics, not much though
  
• eq'd some nitpicky details
  
• changed the kick to a 909 (side note, I was ignoring the 909 because my sample sucked ass. I found a new sample and was struck by how it was so simpo )
  
• added my own little synth sequence to bridge sections and build up a little sexier
  
• changed the buildup
  
• changed some drums but not much
  

Overall I'm quite happy with this one. After I get some more feedback I think I will submit it. I think that it's got a good chance of being accepted but we'll have to see! Thanks to everybody to gave their advice so far... it's much appreciated!

Here's the link one more time:

http://www.donimusic.com/projects/Doni%20-Trigga%20(Corridor%20of%20Time%20Remix).mp3

Thanks again all Time for some sleep!

[Doni]

Yuck, I forgot to renew my hosting for my webpage... please standby... what poor timing!!!

[Doni]

Ok disaster averted... the link should work now so please have a listen

[Doni]

Any takers?

[BlackPanther]

I listened to it before but didn't get a chance to critique it. As a song itself I really like it. When I get more time I'll do more of a somewhat thorough response.

[Doni]

Hey all

I've posted a final draft version of the track up. Although nobody commented on the versions in between

Anyways, I'm feeling quite 100 percent on this piece now. It has tormented me for about 2 weeks solid and I believe it should please the lot of you. I'm going to submit it in a few days if I don't hear anybody point out something glaring that I've missed or that my deaf ears couldn't pick up

Link once again:

http://www.donimusic.com/projects/Doni%20-Trigga%20(Corridor%20of%20Time%20Remix).mp3

thanks all time for sleep yuck

[rig1015]

Another Chrono Mix! Love the approach.

Took a long listen; as you are building up into you drums for the first time your kick shuffles seemed over done... too much pressure, maybe sweep a low-cut filter under them as you build.

All in all the mix felt dense but you said you were going for that over compressed sound. Hope it does well.

[gwilendiel]

Nice!

Some suggestions (my opinions only, I'm no master of music):

The opening sounds a little shallow to me, I'd maybe change one one of the toms/bongos to a lower one.

In the beginning, the bass is a little fat to me. When other instruments come in later, the fatness is good, but when it's by itself it could use a little less low frequency or a little more high... it isn't drastic, only a minor tweak would be good. This may be a scenario where you adjust eq 'on the fly'.

The same with the kick drum when it first comes in, it's a little too punchy for not having much else around it. Later on the punchiness is very good, but not when its alone. It also needs a way to be 'introduced' less abruptly somehow.

Again, just what I personally would do if it were me, what you do is you.

Edit: disregard my comment about the kick, I missed your revised version. I'd say the kick is quite a bit better in that one.

[Doni]

Another Chrono Mix! Love the approach.

Took a long listen; as you are building up into you drums for the first time your kick shuffles seemed over done... too much pressure, maybe sweep a low-cut filter under them as you build.

All in all the mix felt dense but you said you were going for that over compressed sound. Hope it does well.

I agree about the kicks at the build up. They are a bit overpowering. I put a delay on them and I think i could probably adjust the dry/wet and feedback on it as well as put some filter so that effect can be a bit cleaner. I was wrestling with this but you've help push me over the edge and I will make that adjustment for sure!

[Doni]

Nice!

Some suggestions (my opinions only, I'm no master of music):

The opening sounds a little shallow to me, I'd maybe change one one of the toms/bongos to a lower one.

Indeed I have struggled with this... originally I had some lower ones but couldn't really get the drums to work with the bass... I will consider this, as I have been pondering this myself

In the beginning, the bass is a little fat to me. When other instruments come in later, the fatness is good, but when it's by itself it could use a little less low frequency or a little more high... it isn't drastic, only a minor tweak would be good. This may be a scenario where you adjust eq 'on the fly'.

If you have a chance, could you tell me the specific times you are talking about? No worries if not, but let me know!

The same with the kick drum when it first comes in, it's a little too punchy for not having much else around it. Later on the punchiness is very good, but not when its alone. It also needs a way to be 'introduced' less abruptly somehow.

Again, just what I personally would do if it were me, what you do is you.

Such carefulness when delivering constructive criticism Isn't it interesting though, how many people cannot take criticism? Considering the very notion of giving criticism is in the context of benefiting the person it is directed at, I find it hard to see so many around me taking so much personal offense when their work is affected on by words of critique.

Forgive me for that contrived statement; I do appreciate your candor and indeed everybody's candor in offering advice. But isn't it curious that most people see such advices as attacks in this world?

Edit: disregard my comment about the kick, I missed your revised version. I'd say the kick is quite a bit better in that one.

Could the same be said then about the bass in the beginning? let me know if possible

[gwilendiel]

Such carefulness when delivering constructive criticism Isn't it interesting though, how many people cannot take criticism? Considering the very notion of giving criticism is in the context of benefiting the person it is directed at, I find it hard to see so many around me taking so much personal offense when their work is affected on by words of critique.

See that's the thing. I don't know what you know, what you did on purpose, or what sounds 'bad' to be due to your inexperience or whatever. Maybe you want it to sound a certain way, and you know about it, so who would I be to judge?

Like if I were to tell you about filtering but you are already a master of filtering and just chose not to use it for your own reasons.

Plus I don't like to be overly specific, because it takes me time, and is done in professional regard when I am not a professional at reviews. In addition to the fact that I want you to hear for yourself, not do something just because I asked you. Maybe you'll hear a different thing from what I do and you'll make it better than I could have suggested.

Sorry for the philosophical discussion there... that's just how I am though.

[Doni]

See that's the thing. I don't know what you know, what you did on purpose, or what sounds 'bad' to be due to your inexperience or whatever. Maybe you want it to sound a certain way, and you know about it, so who would I be to judge?

Like if I were to tell you about filtering but you are already a master of filtering and just chose not to use it for your own reasons.

Plus I don't like to be overly specific, because it takes me time, and is done in professional regard when I am not a professional at reviews. In addition to the fact that I want you to hear for yourself, not do something just because I asked you. Maybe you'll hear a different thing from what I do and you'll make it better than I could have suggested.

Sorry for the philosophical discussion there... that's just how I am though.

Worry not my friend, my comments were directed at you, nay not even all the peoples of this forum. Just a general observation!

But truly, your unbridled opinion is absolutely valuable. My ears can only hear things the way they hear things. Certainly the same could be said about your ears, another one's ears, and so on. Also, as you know, a certain 'desensitization' occurs when you've worked on one piece of music for a long time; this of course lending itself to errors in judgment, execution, and composition.

This song is, after all, for the world. Of course, I must enjoy it too, the song being a product of myself and a composition I have enjoyed for many years. What I mean is, if something doesn't sound good, and a listener has pointed that out, in the spirit of providing the best piece I can for the listenership I must do my best to heed these remarks; and I would hope the same attitude would be adhered to by all.

So with that said, indeed I agree we must be careful to not insult a person for their efforts, but we should not let our assumptions get in the way of a full assessment; as time permits of course.

[gwilendiel]

Worry not my friend, my comments were directed at you, nay not even all the peoples of this forum. Just a general observation!

But truly, your unbridled opinion is absolutely valuable. My ears can only hear things the way they hear things. Certainly the same could be said about your ears, another one's ears, and so on. Also, as you know, a certain 'desensitization' occurs when you've worked on one piece of music for a long time; this of course lending itself to errors in judgment, execution, and composition.

This song is, after all, for the world. Of course, I must enjoy it too, the song being a product of myself and a composition I have enjoyed for many years. What I mean is, if something doesn't sound good, and a listener has pointed that out, in the spirit of providing the best piece I can for the listenership I must do my best to heed these remarks; and I would hope the same attitude would be adhered to by all.

So with that said, indeed I agree we must be careful to not insult a person for their efforts, but we should not let our assumptions get in the way of a full assessment; as time permits of course.

Good points!

When I can get around to it I'll give it another listen if you want. Right now my ears are tired too, as you rightly explained above.... so some times it's hard to want to be accurate when my own ears are already practically bleeding from working on my own stuff like they were when I wrote that haha.

but anyway