Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[Bleck]

I think it's ridiculous if someone wants video games to always be super easy.

there is a difference between 'fun' and 'super easy'

I don't care if you don't like sonic games, but you saying over and over again that they are bad unfun games for you isn't going to change that they are enjoyable games designs for me or other people who enjoy playing them.

that's nice

(Also most people stop playing hopscotch before like...2nd grade dude )

hey wow it's like you suddenly remember what sarcasm is and then just as quickly forget

[Nabeel Ansari]

there is a difference between 'fun' and 'super easy'

That's right.

It's the same difference between "Sonic" and "Super Easy:

[LuketheXjesse]

I really hate this thread.

[DarkeSword]

I think it's ridiculous if someone wants video games to always be super easy.

Don't say someone "sucks at video games" just because they have an opinion about the difficulty of video games. It's rude, and a poor way to argue your point.

[atmuh]

I really hate this thread.

i think its adorable!!!!!!!!!!!

[cobaltstarfire]

hey wow it's like you suddenly remember what sarcasm is and then just as quickly forget

I'm trying to figure out if you're trying to be sarcastic or if you took what I said seriously. Because if it's the latter that's funny, if it's not well I think you need to try a little harder.

Either way this thread seems to boil down to "I like sonic" "why do you like sonic it sucks" "Because I have fun playing it" "But it sucks stop saying you're having fun!" So it seems to have regulated down to "look here if you want to see something silly/amusing"

[Bleck]

Either way this thread seems to boil down to "I like sonic" "why do you like sonic it sucks" "Because I have fun playing it" "But it sucks stop saying you're having fun!"

welcome to forums

That's right.

It's the same difference between "Sonic" and "Super Easy:

are you saying sonic isn't super easy

sonic, the games where you spend 90% of each game being completely and totally invincible

sonic, the games where you can beat almost all of the levels by holding right

sonic, the games where the bosses universally use a strategy that entails shooting or swinging a big easily dodge-able thing at you while slowly farting themselves back and forth across the screen

sonic, the games where you have a ten minute time limit to beat stages that take about forty seconds to hold right through

I don't think you understand me - I never said Sonic games were too hard. I said they were too not fun.

[DarkeSword]

Alright, so you don't like Sonic games. Why are you posting in this thread? Because all you're doing now is just posting to rile up people.

[AMT]

There are a dozen good ways to make a platformer based primarily on high speed - making it so you spend half of the time not going fast is not one of them.

But that's the whole point; the speed is a reward. Watch someone play Super Metroid for the first time, then watch the speed run beating it in about 30 minutes. The point is that the game rewards you for mastering control and learning the environments. An area that took 3 minutes of careful jumping the first time you got there might be passed in a few seconds with a carefully timed jump. The old Sonic games were fantastic at this. The problem the Advance games had is that they just made you go fast from the get-go. Then people ran into enemies and complained that it was unfair and not fun. Speed should come as a result of mastering the game, it's not what the player starts with.

EDIT: Holy crap I missed 2 pages of replies

[Geoffrey Taucer]

But that's the whole point; the speed is a reward. Watch someone play Super Metroid for the first time, then watch the speed run beating it in about 30 minutes. The point is that the game rewards you for mastering control and learning the environments. An area that took 3 minutes of careful jumping the first time you got there might be passed in a few seconds with a carefully timed jump. The old Sonic games were fantastic at this. The problem the Advance games had is that they just made you go fast from the get-go. Then people ran into enemies and complained that it was unfair and not fun. Speed should come as a result of mastering the game, it's not what the player starts wtih.

Agreed completely.

And the Mario games (and the DKCs, to some extent) did an excellent job of this. Once you learned your way around the levels, speedrunning them became quite fun.

[Bleck]

Alright, so you don't like Sonic games. Why are you posting in this thread? Because all you're doing now is just posting to rile up people.

Because it's not that I don't like Sonic games, it's that I don't like most of the old Sonic games.

I think you can understand where I would take issue with someone saying that [unreleased game] is going to be bad because it doesn't look similar to [mediocre game]. I am very excited for Sonic 4 - it could be the game that takes the not-completely-faulty-but-still-pretty-flawed system that was Sonic 3 and Knuckles and make it not very flawed at all. They could make not only a good game, which is enough reason to get excited, but a good Sonic game, which hasn't either hasn't happened in years or has never happened at all, depending on your viewpoint.

I'm only trying to defend the idea that Sonic 4 could very well turn out to be a pretty good game. If you want me to stop so that people can continue shining up their nostalgia goggles and denouncing something that they have literally no reason to denounce, I will lift my dress and scoot right on out.

But that's the whole point; the speed is a reward. Watch someone play Super Metroid for the first time, then watch the speed run beating it in about 30 minutes. The point is that the game rewards you for mastering control and learning the environments. An area that took 3 minutes of careful jumping the first time you got there might be passed in a few seconds with a carefully timed jump. The old Sonic games were fantastic at this. The problem the Advance games had is that they just made you go fast from the get-go. Then people ran into enemies and complained that it was unfair and not fun. Speed should come as a result of mastering the game, it's not what the player starts with.

I agree with you on the Metroid thing. But you know what the flaw in your argument is? Super Metroid was still fun the first playthrough.

That goes for DKC and Mario games as well. DKC is all HOLY SHIT GIANT BEES and Mario is all LOOK AT ME I'M FLYING AND SHIT and Sonic is all hum, another ramp that I have to walk up because I wasn't going fast enough because I was going pretty fast but then oops spikes popped up in front of me what the hell they didn't even damage me they were literally just there to make me stop moving ughghghg.

[AMT]

I'm sorry, but if you didn't think S3&K was fun on your first playthrough then Sonic games just aren't for you. That sits right up there with DKC2 and Yoshi's Island as one of the best platformers ever made.

[Bleck]

I'm sorry, but if you didn't think S3&K was fun on your first playthrough then Sonic games just aren't for you.

not-completely-faulty-but-still-pretty-flawed system that was Sonic 3 and Knuckles

I liked S3&K. But on the list of 'Greatest Platformers' it's probably dead last, i.e better than most shovelware platformers but there are dozens of better ones.

This is exactly the thing - Sonic 4 has the capacity to take everything that was wrong with S3&K and actually make it good. But Sega won't get anywhere close to that if they keep listening to all these people who think that Sonic games aren't without their immense flaws!

[AMT]

This is exactly the thing - Sonic 4 has the capacity to take everything that was wrong with S3&K and actually make it good.[/i

See, this is the point you're missing. S3&K is exactly the kind of game Sonic fans have been asking for for years; A true platformer at heart with varied environments and fantastic music that rewards precise movement with speed. The "Hold Right to Win" syndrome didn't start until the Sonic Advance games. We want a real platformer, not "Let's watch Sonic go fast!", and part of platforming is jumping on platforms.

[Nabeel Ansari]

What I still don't understand after playing Angel Island Zone is how to get past the first set of rocks by simply holding right? I have to use that strange little jump button on my controller, it's so weird. 0_0

Is anyone else having this problem?

[Bleck]

S3&K is exactly the kind of game Sonic fans have been asking for for years;

Sonic fans

These are the same people who actually bought Shadow The Hedgehog. Their opinions and desires became meaningless long ago.

What I still don't understand after playing Angel Island Zone is how to get past the first set of rocks by simply holding right? I have to use that strange little jump button on my controller, it's so weird. 0_0

whoa so you have to hold right and jump I was totally wrong this is the greatest game of all time

[AMT]

I consider myself a Sonic fan, and the last game I bought was SA2. There are a lot of people who are fans of the old platformers that dislike where the series has gone now; hence them wanting Sega to make a game like the old platformers.

[Bleck]

I consider myself a Sonic fan, and the last game I bought was SA2.

I bought Sonic Adventure 2.

[Nabeel Ansari]

whoa so you have to hold right and jump I was totally wrong this is the greatest game of all time

Wait but there's a part where I have to go left and I didn't calibrate my controller to have a left button because you said all I had to do was hold right to win.

[AMT]

Notice that I said the last game I bought was SA2. There's a reason I haven't bought any of them since.

[Bleck]

And yet somehow you bought SA2 despite SA coming directly before it. That is mysterious.

Actually wait, it is not so mysterious at all!

[Random Hajile]

The first Sonic Adventure wasn't horrific. It had some things I didn't like but I enjoyed playing through it.

And I've played most of those "top platformer" games and by god, Sonic 3 and Knuckles is STILL up there. You couldn't just hold fucking right to win Sonic 3 and Knuckles. You would start dying horrifically at marble garden. And in Sonic and Knuckles you started getting raped in flying battery. Endless pits in that one =/.

And easy fucking games? Sonic 2 is NOT an easy fucking game. You have to know that game inside and out to beat it. I know this because I STILL have trouble beating that goddamn game. Metropolis and Wing Fortress zones suck.

I loved S3K .

Come on, as a little kid who didn't think flying through space as a yellow invincible hedgehog in a level called THE DOOMSDAY wasn't just the coolest thing ever?

Come on the music was amazing ;_;

[LuketheXjesse]

Why any of you are still trying to argue with Bleck is beyond me.

[AMT]

Well, to begin with, being condescending and insulting to the people you're trying to debate with just makes you look bad. While SA wasn't a fantastic game, it was also the series' big jump to 3D, which, as with other franchises, was usually pretty shakey. For a first shot it wasn't bad at all. It didn't age well, but I definitely remember being impressed the first time I booted up my Dreamcast. The game was a good enough attempt that 12 year old me assumed SA2 would fix what was wrong with it and improve the idea all around. Instead, we got Sonic talking to the president. Yeah. Sonic is a game that just works better in 2D, and that's what we've wanted for a long time.

EDIT: Mostly just because I'm bored at work.

[Nabeel Ansari]

While SA wasn't a fantastic game, it was also the series' big jump to 3D, which, as with other franchises, was usually pretty shakey.

Hey, maybe Sega should've asked Retro Studios to handle it? xD