Need New Seqencing Software

[Solaphar]

I've been using Cakewalk Music Creator 2003 for a number of years, but having recently upgraded to a new computer and new operating system (Windows 7 64-bit) I have found that my old software no longer functions correctly. Specifically, it doesn't display notation correctly in the staff view.

I figured this was as good a hint as any that it was time to upgrade to something newer, sooo, I went to the Cakewalk website to see what their latest version was, and having found it to be Music Creator 5, I then went searching the internet for reviews on this product. I found it was not well-liked, and many people had trouble installing it on the 64-bit OS.

Well, that caused me to rule out that product, but now I don't know where to look next, since I've only ever used Cakewalk. I really liked Cakewalk 2003 and was hoping for something that has very similar features, but I really need some suggestions.

That means, right now, I'm hoping you kind generous folk would be willing to field some suggestions my way for a product that is as similar to Cakewalk Music Creator as possible, but doesn't have the apparent bugs and other issues in that product. Also should be 64-bit OS compatible.

Thanks in advance.

[Fishy]

If you liked Cakewalk, you should check out Sonar. It's made by the same people, and its basically the new and improved Cakewalk. I think they're up to version 8 of Sonar by now so it should have a lot more features and improvements over Cakewalk. I'm sure there's a demo on their site for you to download and check it out.

[m68030]

Seconded for sonar. I've used Cakewalk off and on since 1996 or so, and Sonar is the logical progression.

[Solaphar]

Okay, I guess I'll try it out. Anyone know whether it's good in 64-bit Win7? Then again, I suppose I'll find that out when I go to install it.

For that matter, could anyone who uses 64-bit Win7 also share their opinions, even if it's about a product that isn't like Cakewalk. Right now, I just want something good for both MIDI and Audio Mixing that is known to work in Windows 7 64-bit.

Thanks to both Fishy and m68030 for the recommendation so far. Looking forward to hearing from others too.

[m68030]

I'm in 64bit Win7. There is a native 64bit sonar. If you are moving into more audio based mixing you might also look at Sony acid. Oven been using it since 2000 as MT primary DAW. It does MIDI too.

I keep hearing good things about Reaper too. Its free so at least worth trying.

[Solaphar]

Yeah, believe it or not, I still spend the majority of my time on MIDI (I know it's old, lol), and I also like looking at the staff, as opposed to a piano roll, etc. Nothing beats the good old treble and bass clef for me. Now, that said, I still do like to plug in keys, guitar, bass, or mic and record alongside the midi, which is why I'm not just going with something like Finale.

I do give bonus points to any program that also has a feature to let me print sheet music (as long as it doesn't look like garbage), but this is a more minor point that I can overlook for the sake of OS compatibility, which is my greatest concern.

I have just installed Sonar 8 trial version, which I downloaded yesterday, and I'll be trying the program later today.

Thanks for the additional suggestions, I'll look into both of them.

[m68030]

Sonar is probably going to fit your needs just fine. What you might think about doing though is a hybrid approach, where you do your arrangement in Sonar, then record/render out individual lines for final mastering/mixing in straight audio format in something like Reaper or Acid.

That is what I did for years until Acid finally got midi (albeit rather basic) support for VST/DXis. This gives you pretty infinite flexibility toward the final sound of your track.

Feel free to contact me via IM if you want a more in-depth description of that type of set up.

[Solaphar]

Well, turns out I dislike Sonar. Couldn't get the 64-bit to work properly, so tried the 32-bit instead, but I just didn't like the interface layout and color scheme. It's a small thing, I know, but it got really annoying quickly.

I think I'll look in other places besides Cakewalk products. But, I appreciate you taking the time to give suggestions and such.

[zylance]

Dunno why Sonar is giving you problems, but their most direct competitor is probably Cubase, which is what I use. I'm running Cubase 5 on Windows 7 64-bit (it's native 64) with no problems. One thing to note though is that Cubase probably has a higher learning curve then Sonar, then again I have not touched Sonor since version 4.

[Solaphar]

Dunno why Sonar is giving you problems, but their most direct competitor is probably Cubase, which is what I use. I'm running Cubase 5 on Windows 7 64-bit (it's native 64) with no problems. One thing to note though is that Cubase probably has a higher learning curve then Sonar, then again I have not touched Sonor since version 4.

Sonar 64-bit is the one that was giving me trouble, the 32-bit that I tried after it was fine, I simply decided that didn't like the color scheme and layout after using it a couple days. I'll add pictures tomorrow and I'll also edit my first post a bit so people can get a better idea of what I'm aiming for before I try to solicit any more suggestions.

Edit, picture added

Sonar on top, my old sequencer on bottom. I found it a lot harder to find specific icons now in the Sonar demo.

[Moseph]

Sonar can be recolored (e.g. this site). Doesn't fix the layout, though.

[Nabeel Ansari]

SONAR SUCKS

FL STUDIO RULES

Disclaimer: I've never read reviews or have tried Sonar before.

EDIT: I looked at some screenshots, the interface doesn't look as fun as FL Studio and the piano roll looks dull. :/ FL Studio has an interface that's easy on the eyes.

I recommend FL Studio, but only because it's the DAW I use and I've only ever tried the Reason Demo (the interface I don't like)

[Solaphar]

Does it have a staff? I don't really use piano rolls.

I'd really like a DAW that includes various staves for midi (treble clef, bass clef, grand staff, etc.).

Nevertheless, I appreciate your suggestion, even if it lacks the prerequisite staff. At a brief glance, it does look like FL Studio is the most popular workstation, at least among the forum members here. 1000+ people can't be wrong?

Back to Cakewalk, the Sonar interface isn't the only thing I dislike about it, I also kinda dislike how it rounds off note durations on the staff. To elaborate, for example, it'll like, round a 16th note to appear as an 8th. Maybe there's a way to change that, but I haven't found it yet.

[Fishy]

FL Studio is popular here because it is cheap, and most of the dudes here are hobby musicians - not because it is the best.

Not saying it's bad or anything, that's just the main reason it does well here.

[Mirby]

I suck with music, and even I find FL easy to use. (That sounded like a bad testimonial...) But it's cheap and easy to use, that is true.

[m68030]

Using FL always makes me feel like I'm cheating myself somehow.

The cutesy buttons and knobs never helped endear me either.

[Rozovian]

Does it have a staff? I don't really use piano rolls.

I'd really like a DAW that includes various staves for midi (treble clef, bass clef, grand staff, etc.).

Piano roll tends to be more useful in crafting and editing a performance, since you've got control of exact timing and velocity. Whatever you use is of course up to you, but bear in mind that unless you only use your DAW for writing scores for playing live and/or hearing how your writing sounds you will need the piano roll. Just fyi.

Nevertheless, I appreciate your suggestion, even if it lacks the prerequisite staff. At a brief glance, it does look like FL Studio is the most popular workstation, at least among the forum members here. 1000+ people can't be wrong?

Yes they can. Not up to me to say if they are tho. It's probably been said before but try whatever demos you can get your hands on, see what you're most comfortable wirking with. Remember that it will take a few days to familiarize yourself with any advanced enough program/interface. Maybe FL is a terrible choice for you. Maybe it's awesome. That's up to you to find out - preferably before you spend anything on getting it.

Despite their similarities, it took me weeks to adapt to Logic after using GarageBand. Same with switching from trackers to a simple DAW like GB. I also have a handicapped version of Live, and it looks daunting. Tried Reason for a few minutes at a friend's place, I didn't know how to do anything in it. At all. It takes a while to learn a new instrument. Or a new DAW.

[Moseph]

Back to Cakewalk, the Sonar interface isn't the only thing I dislike about it, I also kinda dislike how it rounds off note durations on the staff. To elaborate, for example, it'll like, round a 16th note to appear as an 8th. Maybe there's a way to change that, but I haven't found it yet.

Turn off the fill durations and trim durations options. The shortcuts for those, at least in Sonar 6, are F and M in the staff view. You can also tell it to beam rests in the layout settings (L) which may make complicated rhythms less obnoxious to read.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Piano roll tends to be more useful in crafting and editing a performance, since you've got control of exact timing and velocity. Whatever you use is of course up to you, but bear in mind that unless you only use your DAW for writing scores for playing live and/or hearing how your writing sounds you will need the piano roll. Just fyi.

QFE

If you wanna make music on your own, I recommend a piano roll.

If you're only using sheet music, I cannot possibly imagine how you could offset notes and humanize velocities without resorting to the use of incredibly small rests (which don't exist)

FL Studio is popular here because it is cheap, and most of the dudes here are hobby musicians - not because it is the best.

Not saying it's bad or anything, that's just the main reason it does well here.

WELL, Zircon uses FL Studio, and, I wouldn't exactly ignore that fact.

I mean it just shows how great FL Studio can sound in the right hands.

If you want to create scores for live instruments to play, I would recommend Finale. I think that's pretty good.

Otherwise, if you want to make your own music on your computer using VST's and such, the piano roll will have to be your new interface.

[The Vagrance]

WELL, Zircon uses FL Studio, and, I wouldn't exactly ignore that fact.

I mean it just shows how great FL Studio can sound in the right hands.

Means absolutely nothing. Anyone can make anything sound nice, what matters is the workflow and the features.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Means absolutely nothing. Anyone can make anything sound nice, what matters is the workflow and the features.

Actually, you just repeated what I said.

"waht matters is the workflow and the features"

yeah, listen to Zircon's music. It has features to make Zircon's music sound like it is, so if you want to sound like Zircon you should use the features that get Zircon to sound like Zircon.

And ditto for any other artist in any other software.

[Fishy]

Yah, Zircon does use fl because he's a monster with the workflow.

More or less every professional album ever made with a computer was made with either Pro Tools or Logic Studio. Film music composers use almost exclusively Logic these days. Aside from those two, which are the kinda standard - it really is all about how you enjoy the workflow.

Basically, just download the demo of everything and try them. There is no right answer.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Yah, Zircon does use fl because he's a monster with the workflow.

More or less every professional album ever made with a computer was made with either Pro Tools or Logic Studio. Film music composers use almost exclusively Logic these days. Aside from those two, which are the kinda standard - it really is all about how you enjoy the workflow.

Basically, just download the demo of everything and try them. There is no right answer.

Well yeah, I'm not saying FL Studio will ALWAYS yield amazing results, it depends on the person.

But what I'm trying to get at is that FL Studio CAN sound great, because some people fail to mention FL Studio as a choice.

[The Vagrance]

But what I'm trying to get at is that FL Studio CAN sound great, because some people fail to mention FL Studio as a choice.

I don't think FLStudio has had that stigma for some time though and also it seems unnecessary given that on this forum FLStudio is easily the most common sequencer.

[Fishy]

some people fail to mention FL Studio as a choice.

We never have that problem around here.

I wanted to make the converse point that just because everyone around here uses it doesn't make it the best choice for any individual. All sequencers are just tools - YOU need to be good and comfortable with each individual tool to make anything good with it. The only way to know which tool suits you best is to try them.