Zelda NES Dungeon remix needs name

[jabond23]

Here's my metal version of the dungeon theme from Legend of Zelda from the NES. I know its been done a FEW times before, but i'm hoping my version gives a fresh look at it. Its only 1:31 long right now cause i'm really not sure where to with it from here, but i'm hoping you guys have a suggestion. I think i've got the orchestration pretty well separated and the guitars pretty well mixed in. I did a version a couple years ago of this theme, but i really like the theme and wanted to take a better stab at it.

Thanks guys.

[EternalVengeance777]

First of all I think its important to mention I'm not re-mixer just a fan of the music on this site. I listened to this and its pretty good, I like the intro alot and I like what youve done with it so far. If you were to finish this I would definetly download it and add it to my music library.

[DragnBreth]

Wants to listen...

...but I'm in class

Must wait.

[Dj Mokram]

We take the same source and we start over!

You've taken an important turn in your composition at this point, with a huge improvement in production.

This version is much more aggressive and sinister than the previous iteration.

The song starts up slowly, establishing an atmosphere filled with adventure and mystery.

The transition to the main part at 0:24 is coming in too abruptly imo.

It isn't introduced by anything, yet didn't felt as surprising as it should have.

May I suggest either letting the strings in suspension for one second, or fake fade them before transitioning to the main part.

Really dug the part from 0:41. Sounds fierce and dynamic, and while drums created a bit of a repetition, has an epic battle feel to it.

After this second part fading, you could eventually go a more intimist road.

Starting with minimal soundscape, and building the song back up, adding melodic material progressively to end up on a climatic finale.

I feel that's what this arrangement is calling for right now.

Finally, I'll make the same comment on your drums that I made on Total Disaster: a bit dry and prominent. But that's my personal bias.

The potential is here. Keep it up!

[DragnBreth]

Me likes!

Okay so, I'ma gonna have to agree with Dj Mokram about the transition into the guitar. You definately need a fade out or something in there and then BAM! Metal! (We need a headbanging emoticon on here...)

Also, I gotta say the riffing that comes in at :44, although awesome, gets kinda repetitive after a while. Might wanna throw some variation in there... like, not right away, but maybe after the melody comes back in again.

Keep workin' on it, man! Looking forward to the finished product!

[jabond23]

Me likes!

Why thank you! I'm hoping you'll ike this update.

We take the same source and we start over!

Yeah, while i like my original version and a lot of people feel the same way, i just thought it could be better.

Well this version is close to the length i want it, but i need to still work some things out. About the drums, i'll mess around with it for my next update. Its late here and i already had this mixed down from earlier. I kept the same dark, metal sort of vibe as the first part of the track. I really am hoping to sub this, although we'll about that. I made some basic changes to the production of the track as well as make it longer. I tried making the orchestration, especially in the beginning more vibrant and prominent. As for the ending, i'm not really sure how to end it yet, so it just kinda ends, lol. I'll work on that too for my next update. I also kinda made a quick quiet spot before the guitars come in, let me know if i should make it longer? Also i switched up the drum track after the :45 part. I meant to switch it up more, but i'll do that tomorrow.

Let me know what you guys think?

[DragnBreth]

Why thank you! I'm hoping you'll ike this update.

Your hopes are not in vain! Still awesome.

Okay, so, on first listen, I gotta say, as soon as the riffing kicks in the choir sounds off until it cuts out. When it comes back in later it sounds fine, but its just after that pause that is sounds kinda off.

The pause, by the way, works nicely, imo.

I'm still gonna have to go with my original comment about the guitar riff that comes in at 0:45. Still sounds a bit repetative. Its an awesome riff, but its short and repeated a lot. Varying the riff a little after a bit might be advisable. (However, since I'm the only one who has brought this up, it may just be me lol )

Keep up the awesome work!

[Dj Mokram]

Allright update, let's see:

I think you cut the strings at 0:23 even earlier than before instead of making them suspend. The sensation of something missing is now amplified.

Dragn Breth is on the money: that rythm guitar pattern from 0:45 gets old very fast and last longer than it should.

Drums need a little rework, but you already know all about that (if not check the comments from Snappleman on the Total Disaster thread).

The choirs add a nice high presence and light atmospheric touch that counterbalance the dark low guitars riffs.

The song gets better later on, when the musical madness return, and you deviate from the source in a very unpredictable and personal way.

I like the swift break at 2:55 that transition back toward the source material.

But imo the ending would benefit from not repeating the very first pattern so obviously.

By adding a solo over it and keeping the energy going, you could close the song on a strong note instead of a fade.

That's generally an good incentive to get people to listen again right away.

Some more effort should pay off on this one. Keep up the good work here!

[jabond23]

Alright, so i fixed some more things. First is replaced and sort of extended the section just after the orchestration and before the guitars come in to be more suspenseful. Your welcome Dj Mokram .

Also i tweaked the choirs a bit, especially in the beginning. Then i did a little more tweaking of the track as a whole. I tried bringing the orchestration and leads out more from the rest of the track. I added some slight reverb to the drums to make them not so dry. I think it may still need a bit more. ALSO, i cut the part in half the plays at :45 so its not so long now. Then i added a solo over the last part of the song and switched up the instruments slightly that play that last part also.

[DragnBreth]

Okay, now the choir right at the beginning is sounding off to me. Like there are notes that are out of key or something.

I think it may still need a bit more. ALSO, i cut the part in half the plays at :45 so its not so long now.

Better . Repeating 8 times before the melody kicked in was a bit much. It works much better now, me thinks. And once the melody kicks in it adds the variation necessary to keep the riff from becoming too repetative.

Then i added a solo over the last part of the song and switched up the instruments slightly that play that last part also.

I would, however, suggest ending it with something other than a sudden stop. It may just be me, but I'm not a big fan of songs just suddenly ending (although I'm sure there are any number that I listen to that do just that). Something that tells the listener "hey, I'm ending now!"... and making sure you end on the root chord. Because the song is meant to loop in the game, it likely does not end on the root chord. It just brings a sense of finality to the song, instead of leaving you hanging.

[SLyGeN]

oh jesus. I had a whole thing written up for you, and when I went to click submit I accidentally hit a navigation button on my mouse, and now it's gone. FUCK ME SIDEWAYS.

The basic idea was this:

-metal kicks ass

-compression on the kick drum is ruining the mix, take it off or fix it

-more edge on the kick so I can hear those blast beats

-use a better choir and better strings, or replace them with something you have that sounds more authentic, or perhaps even consider using a synthesizer instead without trying to reproduce orchestral instruments

-make sure your choir isn't adding a fifth above or some shit that might cause it to sound out of tune

-this track is gonna kick some ass once it's done.

[jabond23]

oh jesus. I had a whole thing written up for you, and when I went to click submit I accidentally hit a navigation button on my mouse, and now it's gone. FUCK ME SIDEWAYS.

I'm glad you enjoyed and i've had that happen to me before also. I HATE when i do that. Or when you type a whole message out and click post and the f***ing connection times out, lol.

Anyways. I didn't even realize that the kick was overcompressed. I'll fix that in the next update. Also, its funny cause the strings at least are East West Play samples and are the closest to authentic that i could get, lol. I'll try another choir vst i have and see if that helps also. I'll post an update later or tomorrow probably.

Thanks guys, Joe

[DragnBreth]

Also, its funny cause the strings at least are East West Play samples and are the closest to authentic that i could get, lol.

Strings sound fine to me. Its just the choir, for me, anyway. I don't think its the choir's sound, but rather the notes that are being played. But I guess it would not hurt to attempt a different VST.

Or when you type a whole message out and click post and the f***ing connection times out, lol.

I get that problem here. The heat plays havok with the wires that run through the attic (the idiot who thought of running them up there needs to be slapped). We use DSL, so you get these phone lines running through a literal hot zone and attenuation runs rampant. ; I hate living in Arizona.

Anywho...

Lookin' forward to the next update!

[jabond23]

Alright, well i used a different choir vst entirely but also trimmed back the notes the choir sings. I also tweaked the kick drum. Its not compressed and i tried bringing the sound of it out more so its clearer.

[jabond23]

Alright. I did a little more cleaning up and i think its pretty decent now.

Let me know if there's anything else in need of change.

ALSO, i'm really not sure how to change the status of the thread to is says Mod Review. I'm sure its somewhat easy, but i can't figure it out. thanks

I forgot a link to the source as well: Legend Of Zelda NES Underworld (Dungeon)

[DragnBreth]

I think all you have to do is go in and edit the first post. It'll show the drop-down box for WIP/Finished/Mod Review.

[jabond23]

I think all you have to do is go in and edit the first post. It'll show the drop-down box for WIP/Finished/Mod Review.

HA! i knew it was something pretty simple, lol. Thanks man.

[DragnBreth]

HA! i knew it was something pretty simple, lol. Thanks man.

No prob!

[Nutritious]

Ok, metal's not my forte, but here are my thoughts:

Starting off, the choir/string elements sound washed out in the mix. I think it's due to them sounding all centered and a bit dull, tone-wise. Try panning around some parts to give it a fuller sound and see if you can get some more high-end presence. The balance could be a little better here with the toms/cymbals - cymbals especially sound fakey and pretty quiet.

Choir in general sounds good. Strings aren't quite as strong, but I think they'll work with some better spacing.

When things kick it it's getting pretty crowded. I should reiterate that metal isn't my strongest point, so it'd be great if someone else could chime in who's more familiar with the production points of the genre. Anyway... snare is appropriately punchy here, sounds good to me. Kick is cutting through clearly as well. I'm a little concerned the quick rhythm guitar is getting buried, but that could be the point (see above).

Ok, :45 things are really clicking here. Great sounding guitars and drums. I'm not hearing much bass guitar here. Is it absent? Machine-gun drums could get a little bit fatiguing on the ears, but you switch it up enough here to not be too big a deal.

At 1:16 you've got this cool guitar part I can BARELY hear in the backround. It's really getting overpowered by everything else - bring it out more.

On the arrangement side, source is very clear throughout the first half of the song. Second half, though, sounds predominately original stuff. I haven't timed it out, but it's a pretty big chunk of original stuff dominating the second half of the mix. I do hear where you connect it back to the source at 2:47 with the stabs and later with the choir. This may or may not be an issue when you submit, but wanted to give you a heads up.

I'm mixed on the solo near the end over the choir - it kinda sounds messy and unfocused to my ears, but that could be just me.

Ending was pretty abrupt, kinda sounded like you just quit playing. Consider something a bit more... ending-ish .

Overall, I think you're close here. Some pretty simple production tweaks, maybe some more arrangement connections in that long original section, and an actual ending and I think you're golden.

[jabond23]

Ok, metal's not my forte, but here are my thoughts:

Whether or not it is, i really appreciate the feedback. Especially so quickly I went back and improved on everything mentioned and i think its one step closer maybe? I also added a quick rising then slow dropping string section right after the solo. I really think that helps add a bit more of the source as well as make it sound very climactic right before the final part of the song.

Let me know what you guys think?

Thanks, Joe

[SLyGeN]

Let me just take a moment to implore you not to remove the blastbeat drums you have now. Metal is my forte, and they need to stay. One thing about the snare, though. Whenever you just have it constantly hitting 1, 2, 3, 4; 1, 2, 3, 4, consider adding an eigth note here or there to vary it.

I'm still not satisfied with the kick drum.. I'm not sure why it sounds the way it does.. it almost sounds like the attack is up a bit, and that all of the mids/highs have been totally cut.

Let me show you an example of two of the kinds of machine-gun drums I like. Although, I'm sure I don't even need to give you any examples. If you're making this, you know how well-mixed metal sounds.

But here they are anyway:

Youtube sucks, so there's barely any bass in those kicks, but even though they're "bass" drums, they have plenty of trebs when the beater makes contact.

ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM, if you can't get that to work, allow me to show you an example of a band who pulls off just the opposite very well. Almost no highs on the attack to speak of:

They also cut the highs on the rest of the drumset, so keep that in mind if you end up going that route.

Hell, honestly I'd say the best solution is to find a kick sound you like online (or shit, I'll give you one that comes with Reason), and load it into a sampler.

Also, the guitars kinda mud together a little bit. Consider perhaps turning the gain or distortion level down, and tweak the EQ so that your rhythm guitar covers the mids while the lead guitar gets the highs.

[jabond23]

Of course since i'm doing a metal remix of anything i think i kinda understand what the bass drum should sound like, lol. Its just figuring it out within drumkit from hell. I've only had it for a few weeks now so i'm still tinkering around with it. I tried tweaking a lot of things for the bass drum track and hopefully got a nicer sound out of it. I really wanna give it a more Dimmu Borgir sound cause i like that sound better. I also made the rhythym guitars a little more prominent.

If it still doesn't sound quite right SLyGen, let me know and i'm more than welcome to you giving me a sample to use instead.

[Emunator]

You've been getting some pretty awesome feedback here so I'm not going to go into too much detail until you switch it over to mod review. However, I'm going to tell you one thing that bothers me about the WIP in its current form - the velocities of your machine gun drums are extremely robotic when they need to sound like they're being played by a real drummer in this kind of music. I'm not sure how specifically to go about doing it, but between the static velocities and the sub-par drum samples, it really brings the song down. So, in addition to the sample issues that SlyGen pointed out, I think you've also got to watch your velocities and try to make it sound a bit more humanized, however you go about doing that.

[jabond23]

You've been getting some pretty awesome feedback here so I'm not going to go into too much detail until you switch it over to mod review. However, I'm going to tell you one thing that bothers me about the WIP in its current form - the velocities of your machine gun drums are extremely robotic when they need to sound like they're being played by a real drummer in this kind of music. I'm not sure how specifically to go about doing it, but between the static velocities and the sub-par drum samples, it really brings the song down. So, in addition to the sample issues that SlyGen pointed out, I think you've also got to watch your velocities and try to make it sound a bit more humanized, however you go about doing that.

YES!! Exactly! i obviously know how to edit velocities, which is why the cymbals aren't as loud as the snare and bass kick. The vst i'm using, ezdrummer, has what they call a "huminization" button, but that obviously doesn't work like its supposed to. You'd think it would just have a randomization button for the velocities. If anyone else knows how to set up the velocities in such a manner please let me know! Thanks.

[SLyGeN]

You've been getting some pretty awesome feedback here so I'm not going to go into too much detail until you switch it over to mod review. However, I'm going to tell you one thing that bothers me about the WIP in its current form - the velocities of your machine gun drums are extremely robotic when they need to sound like they're being played by a real drummer in this kind of music. I'm not sure how specifically to go about doing it, but between the static velocities and the sub-par drum samples, it really brings the song down. So, in addition to the sample issues that SlyGen pointed out, I think you've also got to watch your velocities and try to make it sound a bit more humanized, however you go about doing that.

I personally am not a fan of humanized slop, however I'm really the minority there. But, one thing that may help is making the kick that falls on the downbeat ever so slightly louder than the rest. And when I say slight, I mean slight. Humanization is one of those things where you shouldn't notice it if it's there, although you may notice it if it's not there.