Sonic 3 - Ice Cap Zone (Oh No Not Another One!)

[Kylethedarkn]

This is what you could call the skeleton of an Ice Cap Zone remix I am working on to submit to OCR. As of now the mixing is sub par and there is not enough variation from the source. However this does have the basic feel I'm going for I think, so with that being said, I'd appreciate all reviews and critique, but keep in mind this is nowhere near finished.

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/386368

http://soundcloud.com/kylethedarkn/sonic-3-ice-cap-zone-remix-wip

[DjMystix]

would be great if you can upload it to somewhere else as well. I can't seem to access anything on newGrounds for some reason. How about SoundCloud, TinDeck, youtube etc?

Thanks,

[Kylethedarkn]

Sure thing. Might still be processing, but here's a soundcloud.

http://soundcloud.com/kylethedarkn/sonic-3-ice-cap-zone-remix-wip

[DjMystix]

Sure thing. Might still be processing, but here's a soundcloud.

http://soundcloud.com/kylethedarkn/sonic-3-ice-cap-zone-remix-wip

Thanks! Sounds nice. Are you going for a retro-sounding mix? Otherwise, some of the instruments (strings, guitar etc.) needs better samples/replacements.

Anyway, good start. Those Ice Cap mixes are always welcomed.

[Damashii!!]

OH NO, NOT ANOTHER ONE!!!

actually this has a very nice approach. when the hats came in it seemed like you would take a synthpop/disco approach with it. I would personally be very pleased if you DID finish this with a synthpop/disco approach!

[SonicThHedgog]

this is good really , but close to source , and a electronic kick would be great instead of a real sampled kick.

Other then that this is good.

[Kylethedarkn]

Changed a few things based on your guy's advice. Sound better? I'm probably gonna replace that kick though. I don't like the tone too much.

http://soundcloud.com/kylethedarkn/sonic-3-ice-cap-zone-remix-wip-2

[SonicThHedgog]

Changed a few things based on your guy's advice. Sound better? I'm probably gonna replace that kick though. I don't like the tone too much.

http://soundcloud.com/kylethedarkn/sonic-3-ice-cap-zone-remix-wip-2

instruments are more clear, good puncy kick, this is good. [will edit soon]

[Nintendude794]

Changed a few things based on your guy's advice. Sound better? I'm probably gonna replace that kick though. I don't like the tone too much.

http://soundcloud.com/kylethedarkn/sonic-3-ice-cap-zone-remix-wip-2

This is progress. Great so far, let's make it jus' a little more awesome! Lol. Better samples never hurt; that snare just sounds fake, which may work for what ye're goin' fer, but maybe you could toy with that snare sound a little bit.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Violins in the beginning are really fake, they have the same attack. Try raising the attack knob (lowering the attack).

The lead synth is too IN YOUR FACE, and is cutting way past everything else. AKA too loud.

What this song needs is nice bassline. Also, the guitar sounds fake. I suggest contacting someone to play it for you (or you can PM me and I might be able to with some practice).

As far as the arrangement is concerned, it's fairly conservative, which might or might not be what you're going for, but as I can hear and just see from the waveform in soundcloud, it's not very dynamic. Except for the first few parts, it really keeps the same energy throughout. Which again may or may not be what you want, if you want this long and dancy sure it sounds great except for the stuff above this paragraph, but if you want this to stand on its own or you want to sub this, you should have different parts. Not just small variations, but have different energy levels, maybe different chords and a different beat. Throw a synth solo in there; I always do that with everything.

[Kylethedarkn]

Violins in the beginning are really fake, they have the same attack. Try raising the attack knob (lowering the attack).

The lead synth is too IN YOUR FACE, and is cutting way past everything else. AKA too loud.

What this song needs is nice bassline. Also, the guitar sounds fake. I suggest contacting someone to play it for you (or you can PM me and I might be able to with some practice).

As far as the arrangement is concerned, it's fairly conservative, which might or might not be what you're going for, but as I can hear and just see from the waveform in soundcloud, it's not very dynamic. Except for the first few parts, it really keeps the same energy throughout. Which again may or may not be what you want, if you want this long and dancy sure it sounds great except for the stuff above this paragraph, but if you want this to stand on its own or you want to sub this, you should have different parts. Not just small variations, but have different energy levels, maybe different chords and a different beat. Throw a synth solo in there; I always do that with everything.

That's pretty funny, as the violin, the drums(except the kick) and the guitar are from very expensive Sample Libraries. XD I'm not sure how to make something sound more real, than real. I'm short on time now, but I will provide a fuller response later.

[Nabeel Ansari]

That's pretty funny, as the violin, the drums(except the kick) and the guitar are from very expensive Sample Libraries. XD I'm not sure how to make something sound more real, than real. I'm short on time now, but I will provide a fuller response later.

It's not so funny. Expensive sounds have nothing to do with sounding real; it's how you write your music. Money doesn't buy production

If you have something like Kontakt VSL or EWQLSO those are award winning and expensive libraries they can sound pretty beastly amazing in the right hands. However, they are way too easy to make sound fake. and they require some or a lot of knowledge to make them sound authentic. From the way you're speaking, you've probably never done humanization before. You're saying you're not sure how to make something sound more real than real? Well, you don't have to worry about that, cuz this doesn't sound real. xD

Also, there are only four or five sample libraries with a really good sounding guitar. Don't think guitars are like the rest; they're not. They have more human in them than a lot of other instruments. Your best bet to getting a realistic guitar is spending $400 on

a sample library that gives you just that: one guitar with lots of clever programming and scripting. If you really wanna go that far, you can try Electri6ity for leads and get Guitar Rig 4 Pro or a similarly good amp sim, and if you want rhythm guitars for metal/rock, I'd get Shreddage by Impact Soundworks in a heartbeat if I didn't already play guitar.

[SonicThHedgog]

It's not so funny. Expensive sounds have nothing to do with sounding real; it's how you write your music. Money doesn't buy production

If you have something like Kontakt VSL or EWQLSO those are award winning and expensive libraries they can sound pretty beastly amazing in the right hands. However, they are way too easy to make sound fake. and they require some or a lot of knowledge to make them sound authentic. From the way you're speaking, you've probably never done humanization before. You're saying you're not sure how to make something sound more real than real? Well, you don't have to worry about that, cuz this doesn't sound real. xD

Also, there are only four or five sample libraries with a really good sounding guitar. Don't think guitars are like the rest; they're not. They have more human in them than a lot of other instruments. Your best bet to getting a realistic guitar is spending $400 on

a sample library that gives you just that: one guitar with lots of clever programming and scripting. If you really wanna go that far, you can try Electri6ity for leads and get Guitar Rig 4 Pro or a similarly good amp sim, and if you want rhythm guitars for metal/rock, I'd get Shreddage by Impact Soundworks in a heartbeat if I didn't already play guitar.

or he can buy a guitar, most amp(and sims) these days can turn a low end guitar to high end tones.

and learning to play chords only takes 2 months

[Nabeel Ansari]

or he can buy a guitar, most amp(and sims) these days can turn a low end guitar to high end tones.

and learning to play chords only takes 2 months

Why is that always your suggestion to everything?

Not everyone feels like buying a guitar and learning how to play. It's really not worth it (even if you have a cheap guitar) if you don't plan to practice a lot.

That's like going up to a guy writing an orchestral song and telling him he should just rent an orchestra/ learn how to play an entire orchestra.

[SonicThHedgog]

Why is that always your suggestion to everything?

Not everyone feels like buying a guitar and learning how to play. It's really not worth it (even if you have a cheap guitar) if you don't plan to practice a lot.

That's like going up to a guy writing an orchestral song and telling him he should just rent an orchestra/ learn how to play an entire orchestra.

thats like saying you dont feel like learning to play the piano but you want to produce by controlling synths/samples with a musical Instrument digital interface that requires some key skill or skills for a midi device.

this is not that time consuming unless you want to learn to solo.

open chords for standered

power (5) chords

not that time consuming, alot better then buying samples that dont even give you much control or even a decent sound.

[Nabeel Ansari]

thats like saying you dont feel like learning to play the piano but you want to produce by controlling synths/samples with a musical Instrument digital interface that requires some key skill or skills for a midi device.

Actually no, it's not like that at all. I can get by using my mouse, and zircon is a mouse musician too.

EDIT: If you mean a MIDI controller, that's also wrong. You don't need to know piano to control by keyboard, you just need to know what keys are what.

this is not that time consuming unless you want to learn to solo.

open chords for standered

power (5) chords

Who buys and learns a few chords on guitar just to play for like ONE song? That's a very crappy reason to pick up any instrument.

not that time consuming, alot better then buying samples that dont even give you much control or even a decent sound.

You know what's even better? Asking someone who's been doing it for a while and knows what they're doing. It doesn't extend the process by a few months and doesn't require any money or time at all. And the end result is much better.

Nevermind, we're going off topic. My point was instead of wasting time learning to play an instrument that one might not even be interested in, one could just ask someone to do it for him. It saves time and money, and I also think it would benefit this WiP because the guitar sounds fake.

[SonicThHedgog]

Actually no, it's not like that at all. I can get by using my mouse, and zircon is a mouse musician too.

EDIT: If you mean a MIDI controller, that's also wrong. You don't need to know piano to control by keyboard, you just need to know what keys are what.

Who buys and learns a few chords on guitar just to play for like ONE song? That's a very crappy reason to pick up any instrument.

You know what's even better? Asking someone who's been doing it for a while and knows what they're doing. It doesn't extend the process by a few months and doesn't require any money or time at all. And the end result is much better.

Nevermind, we're going off topic. My point was instead of wasting time learning to play an instrument that one might not even be interested in, one could just ask someone to do it for him. It saves time and money, and I also think it would benefit this WiP because the guitar sounds fake.

1.

Im guessing your using fl studio,lots of piano roll tools indeed, but cant get you what you want always, especially for specific types of peices you want to record....

1a. this post made no sense, (not saying you dont have) if you have no skills on a midi piano, then you would not know what the keys are nor the pitches, you need atleast a minimal amount of skill on the ''keys'', not matter how little, atleast a minimal amount, and it would speed up work flow.

2a.

Dude thos ''few'' chords like the 5 chords(powerchords if you will) are what most guitarist use, most songs played within rock and sub genres are played with mostly (or all) power chords........ and the guitar is layed out in whole and half steps and each string is keyed by 2 intervals except the B string (correct me if im wrong).

youtube has lots of useful tuts

things like diminished, augment, and suspend chords are one of the hard chords to finger if your going to ask

3a. I concur, but your in control of a few things, tone, changes, speed , effects, and other things you generally will want that will not bother the guy you asked for help.

EDIT:: well op can try this, some decent sounds you may like

.

[Nabeel Ansari]

1.

Im guessing your using fl studio,lots of piano roll tools indeed, but cant get you what you want always, especially for specific types of peices you want to record....

1a. this post made no sense, (not saying you dont have) if you have no skills on a midi piano, then you would not know what the keys are nor the pitches, you need atleast a minimal amount of skill on the ''keys'', not matter how little, atleast a minimal amount, and it would speed up work flow.

2a.

Dude thos ''few'' chords like the 5 chords(powerchords if you will) are what most guitarist use, most songs played within rock and sub genres are played with mostly (or all) power chords........ and the guitar is layed out in whole and half steps and each string is keyed by 2 intervals except the B string (correct me if im wrong).

youtube has lots of useful tuts

things like diminished, augment, and suspend chords are one of the hard chords to finger if your going to ask

3a. I concur, but your in control of a few things, tone, changes, speed , effects, and other things you generally will want that will not bother the guy you asked for help.

EDIT:: well op can try this, some decent sounds you may like

.

Never mind, you most obviously are missing the point of what I'm trying to say.

Your midi controller example is bogus anyway; why would anyone want to use a midi controller and not want to learn how to use it? You are making absolutely no sense.

EDIT: I'm finished with this conversation, we've filled the entire page with off topic posts.

[WillRock]

or he can buy a guitar, most amp(and sims) these days can turn a low end guitar to high end tones.

and learning to play chords only takes 2 months

For now I think Kylethedarkn is better off asking someone else for guitar parts than learning himself. Also when it comes down to learning to play an instrument takes a long time, saying it takes two months is naive because it takes alot of work to get to a certain level at the guitar or any instrument, it depends on various factors.

It might not take him long to learn how to play his part, but playing it fluently... he might do it in 2 months, he might not, but don't go saying "it'll take you X amount of time to get this good" because it depends on the person.

Basically, this is what it comes down to - Kylethedarkn - do you use guitar a lot in your music? If you do then it might be worth investing into a getting a guitar. For now though, you're better off asking someone who is good at guitar to help you out.

As for the remix - I like this more than I thought I would when the intro started. The samples are ok, nothing special, and the mixing is off slightly. Sounds like alot of the synths and bells are fighting for the center of the mix and the drums are stuck in the background. The guitar is obviously fake, but thats been covered by others.

Arrangement - The intro drags on a little too long for my liking, but once everything kicks in, the arrangement is pretty engaging to me, if not a little repetitive. I'd consider changing up a few things in later section repeats for more variation, be it chords or melody change ups, or maybe I solo section (i'm a sucker for solo sections).

Some good stuff here, thread has been derailed slightly, lets see it get back on track!

[SonicThHedgog]

For now I think Kylethedarkn is better off asking someone else for guitar parts than learning himself. Also when it comes down to learning to play an instrument takes a long time, saying it takes two months is naive because it takes alot of work to get to a certain level at the guitar or any instrument, it depends on various factors.

It might not take him long to learn how to play his part, but playing it fluently... he might do it in 2 months, he might not, but don't go saying "it'll take you X amount of time to get this good" because it depends on the person.

Indeed but i still say he should try to learn, i mean its not an insane learning curve like the french horn, nor is it as easy as reading small drum line notation, but atleast try. (well all intruments are hard at a point)

Yahh maybe i should have not use my 2-4 months example (or what month i typed) of how fast I learned, its really is diffrent for everyone, like it took me a year to figer out how to play quake at a lvl while it took some less.

why would anyone want to use a midi controller and not want to learn how to use it?

posts.

thats not the point..... it was a counter example..

[Kylethedarkn]

Ok, I have looked at all your comments. I do not plan on buying a guitar, as I rarely use a guitar in my songs, but for sonic I felt it would be a nice touch.

Most likely it is humanization, but what is there to humanize for something like a snare drum? Also how would I go about doing it for cello and guitar?

As for having somebody else play it...I don't think so, not with electric guitar. To be honest unless one of you has almost professional record equipment and perfect rhythm I'm going to not like it. XD

[Damashii!!]

Well, actually I like the guitar part except at 1:43 (that's where its synthetic sound seems most obvious to me. It didn't even bother me as sounding "fake" until that part).

The breakdown around 2:23 [and onward] was pretty groovy, but I only have two complaints:

1) the keychange was phat at first, but modulating back down doesn't sound or feel good (in contemporary/tonal songs, actually)

2) I still like your first version MUCH better because it had a more Disco-ish vibe rather than the over-used techno feel. It's your ReMix, but I seriously think you would get mad props if you take the electro-synth Disco route instead of typical techno. To me, the only [blatant] issues with the first one was a weak kick and not enough DB in the bass (or not enough drive).

like I said, your call. but there's a PLETHORA of entire galaxies built from Ice Cap Zone remixes and arrangements (just google it if you think that's an understatement). It wouldn't hurt to have a Disco version:)!!

[Nabeel Ansari]

As for having somebody else play it...I don't think so, not with electric guitar. To be honest unless one of you has almost professional record equipment and perfect rhythm I'm going to not like it. XD

You've never been to OCR before, have you. Trust me, don't doubt anyone on here, because if you do, someone will pop up and prove you wrong.

But not for this. For electric guitar? Come on man, guitar players are very common on OCR. You're less likely to find a guy who uses FL Studio than a guy who plays and records guitar.

[Kylethedarkn]

You've never been to OCR before, have you. Trust me, don't doubt anyone on here, because if you do, someone will pop up and prove you wrong.

But not for this. For electric guitar? Come on man, guitar players are very common on OCR. You're less likely to find a guy who uses FL Studio than a guy who plays and records guitar.

Well if somebody could do Direct Input using a preamp, I suppose that would get the crispness I want. I just don't want something that sounds as shitty as this: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/384639

[Nabeel Ansari]

Well if somebody could do Direct Input using a preamp, I suppose that would get the crispness I want. I just don't want something that sounds as shitty as this: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/384639

Once again:

You've never been to OCR before.

I suggest posting on the Recruitment & Collaboration forums. If you put "guitar player needed" in the title, you'll probably get four or five responses within a day. If you don't, it could just be that no one's looking at that forum, in which case you can just PM some people.