Nintendo Wii U

[Crowbar Man]

Doesn't mean its a mainline Mario game. It is their version of NSMB basically (like I said before, its kinda like "What if we made an old school Mario in 3D?). A much better product than NSMB mind you, because this team is better at it than the other one.

But it doesn't remotely look or play anything like a mainline 3D Mario (neither did 3D Land). I'm still looking forward to it, but it just is NOT a follow up to the mainline series.

I'm 100% certain one is in development (along with the new Zelda). At least I hope so, because I'd be depressed if all we got were NSMB and "3D Land" style follow ups

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Mirby]

Doesn't mean it isn't a mainline game either.

Just because you don't like it or look at it as a mainline game doesn't mean that it isn't a mainline game.

Also, pretty sure that Sunshine didn't look or play like the mainline games before it. And quite certain that Galaxy didn't look or play like the mainline games before it either.

[Crowbar Man]

Sunshine looked and played like Mario 64: Hub world to explore where you entered sub levels, sprawling 3D levels, multiple missions within a same level collecting stars ("Shines"), Life Bar which filled with coins. The only thing different was FLUDD instead of the cool powers ups (which really made the game feel dull IMO)

Galaxy looked and played like Mario 64 and to a slightly lesser extend Sunshine: Hub word to explore where you entered sub levels, sprawling 3D worlds (though some were more linear, you still had multiple paths to take and tons of exploration in most), multiple missions within a same level collecting stars, Life bar that refilled with coins. The only thing different is it was in space (funky cool gravity effects), and some of the levels were more linear and/or abstract than others

3D Land/World play/look dramatically different, again, more like an old 2D Mario game in 3D with 3D controls rather than a follow up to Mario64/Sunshine/Galaxy. Its pretty great all in itself, but not the same

Have you never seen/played 3D Land? If you haven't, I'd recommend it that way you could understand what I'm talking about

Anywho if they wanted this to be a mainline Mario title, they wouldn't of given it a tile indicating it was a follow up to 3D Land. Nintendo has NEVER made a Mario mainline title on a handheld, nor have they ever made a mainline Mario title out of a follow up to a handheld. They have however, made co-op console follow to NSMB, and this is more akin to that. Mainline Mario series always on the console

Now as I keep stating: I am EXCITED for this game. I really want to play it. I'm buying it day 1 if possible.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Native Jovian]

Another thing I hate about the new Mario games is (ok, I'm sorry for all the ranting, they're fun games)

The time trial for every level. In the HD era, time trials are obsolete, they just manage to rush you along and force you to skip a lot of the content of a level. Trying to play NSMBU, on EVERY SINGLE LEVEL I find myself getting a bit through and then having the clock get low and the "speed up" music start. Then I say screw it and hoof it to the end of the level, skipping everything. This worked in the 80s, but it's an outdated concept to keep shoehorning into the new games.... come on Nintendo, cut that out. Even Mario 3D World has it.

First of all, I don't think "time trial" means what you think it means. A time trial is basically a speedrun, you're trying to finish the level as quickly as possible.

As far as time limits, which is what you're actually describing, though, I completely agree. Artificial time limits and limited lives are both relics of the arcade era, where the goal was to get players to pump as many quarters into the machine as possible. That hasn't been a game design constraint in 30 years -- so why do we still have those mechanics? It's dumb.

[liquid wind]

Galaxies were really more like a follow up to the Shadow Mario levels of Sunshine, linear, kind of a 3D imitation of the 2D style.

idc if it's a "mainline" Mario or not, I think it's more questionable that Nintendo always has two or three Mario titles in development(or more if you're counting spinoffs) when they have dormant franchises. Mario is great but can we get some Star Fox or F-Zero? Maybe even something new(that isn't a tech demo for the newest controller gimmick)?

[The Derrit]

First of all, I don't think "time trial" means what you think it means. A time trial is basically a speedrun, you're trying to finish the level as quickly as possible.

As far as time limits, which is what you're actually describing, though, I completely agree. Artificial time limits and limited lives are both relics of the arcade era, where the goal was to get players to pump as many quarters into the machine as possible. That hasn't been a game design constraint in 30 years -- so why do we still have those mechanics? It's dumb.

i would agree with you if the time limits were actually constraining; the 300-count you get in most mario games is SO much more than enough to see everything in every level that it's hard to really complain against it

on the other hand 'time trial challenges' are awesome and don't factor into the level's completion in and of itself so it's really a completely separate challenge. see rayman origins for a really good example of time trials being completely outside the regular scope of the game, and really fun to boot.

in short, if standard time limits were constrictive then i'd probably agree with you. but they're really not so i don't think it's worth complaining about

[Foxdyfx]

I personally enjoy a lot of games with time limits, I find it really focuses your gameplay. My favourite zelda is Majora's Mask mostly for this reason. As for limited lives I simply like the challenge it can present.

[Bleck]

Doesn't mean its a mainline Mario game.

that's exactly what it fuckin' means god damn

[Crowbar Man]

I have no idea why you guys want to insist 3D World is a mainline Mario title when it is clearly labeled as a follow up to 3D Land, and clearly plays like 3D Land.

3D Land isn't a mainline title, so why would 3D World be? 3D Land plays NOTHING like a mainline title, and everything they've shown off on 3D World looks IDENTICAL to 3D Land, just larger levels and co-op added in.

I'm going to enjoy it, and also I'll enjoy the real mainline Mario game whenever it comes out. But why keep insisting 3D World is something it isn't?

Its a console, co-op follow up to 3D Land. That's it. It'll be a great game, and a fun game, but why insist its the next Mario, when clearly its not?

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Bleck]

I have no idea why you guys want to insist 3D World is a mainline Mario title when it is clearly labeled as a follow up to 3D Land?

3D Land is a main Mario title

[Crowbar Man]

Well there is your problem thre. 3D Land is not a main Mario title, it is a handheld title. None of the mainline Mario's have ever been put on a handheld. It also plays nothing like a mainline Mario title. It is an excellent title, because it was handled by the main Mario team for a change, but it doesn't make it a main Mario title. It was built with limitations of being a handheld game in mind, an experiment with 3D effects, and aimed to be a more retro experience.

Anywho this is silly. The only way you can consider this a mainline Mario title is if they never create a follow up in the style of Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy, and that I think would make us all sad

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[DusK]

Crowbar, your definition of what makes a main Mario title is arbitrary and nonsensical. Stop.

[Bleck]

None of the mainline Mario's have ever been put on a handheld.

so what you're saying here is because none of the main Mario series games have been on a handheld (which isn't actually true) that it's therefore impossible for any other handheld Mario game to be considered a part of the main series

well that's uh wrong

It also plays nothing like a mainline Mario title.

yeah, jumping on stuff in levels until you get to a flagpole? I've never ever seen that in a Mario game, it must be some kind of crazy spin-off!!!

It is an excellent title, because it was handled by the main Mario team for a change, but it doesn't make it a main Mario title.

seeing as though the main Mario team is the team that makes main Mario games and this is a Mario game made by the main Mario team I'm having trouble discerning how you've reached this conclusion

[Crowbar Man]

Super Mario Land (1, 2, 3, etc) is in the handheld subseries, not even created by the Mario team. They aren't in the mainline Mario series [sMB1, 2, 3, World, 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 & 2]

Flagpoles have been removed from Mario since SMB1 (and 2 Japan), end level gates period have been removed since Mario 64 with the introduction of Stars/Mission based system. Flagpoles are clearly a retro reference. Just like NSMB uses them.

Again, the only way I'd consider 3D World a mainline series is if they never ever made a follow up in the style of Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy. And I think that would make most of us extremely sad.

I'm keeping hope up here.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[The Derrit]

Super Mario Land (1, 2, 3, etc) is in the handheld subseries, not even created by the Mario team. They aren't in the mainline Mario series

Flagpoles have been removed from Mario since SMB1 (and 2 Japan), end level gates period have been removed since Mario 64 with the introduction of Stars/Mission based system. Flagpoles are clearly a retro reference. Just like NSMB uses them.

Again, the only way I'd consider 3D World a mainline series is if they never ever made a follow up in the style of Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy. And I think that would make most of us extremely sad.

I'm keeping hope up here.

look whatever you want to tell yourself is fine but nobody agrees with you, including but not limited to Nintendo, Wikipedia, major fansites, and reasonable people with brains

opinions are fine but acting like your opinion is just how things are when everyone including the game makers themselves don't agree is a really stupid thing to do

[Crowbar Man]

Nobody agrees with me? Multiple people in this thread are wanting a follow up in the style of Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy and can clearly make the distinction that this game isn't like those, and in fact a completely different play style.

Its not an opinion when literally the play style / set up is completely different.

Some people just don't want to make a distinction and lob everything into the same category.

The Mario franchise is HUGE and diverse set of subseries

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Dexie]

Nobody agrees with me? Multiple people in this thread are wanting a follow up in the style of Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy and can clearly make the distinction that this game isn't like those.

But Galaxy wasn't in the style of Sunshine, and Sunshine wasn't really in the style of 64, other than the three games each having a big hub area.

So you kind of lose me when you say that 3D Land/World isn't in the same style of those three games, when those three don't really share the same style themselves.

[Crowbar Man]

I've already posted the similarities between Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy. They are all pretty much the same play style with minor differences.

[Hub world, free roaming 3D design that centers around analog control, sub levels with multiple mission based goals (with multiple Stars to collect), Life bar that refills with coins]

3D Land/World are completely different

[map style (retro), linear level design that feels like 2D in 3D (retro), a run button (retro), levels mostly have a single goal (flagpoke) (retro), Mario loses a power up or becomes small when hit, dies when small (retro) a reintroduction of a timer (retro)]

Why nobody can see this clear distinction is beyond me.

[The Derrit]

Why nobody can see this clear distinction is beyond me.

because the distinction you're making is 'these are the main series mario games' which is wrong and dumb instead of saying 'these are the open-world, 3d mario games'

which everyone already knows and thus is also a pretty useless distinction to make.

[Crowbar Man]

but the main Mario series IS "open" 3D platform games as of Mario 64.

But whatever, just seems you guys are saying "THEY ARE ALL THE SAME" when clearly they aren't, and again clearly people in this THREAD are wanting a "real"/"mainline"/"open world 3D"/whateverfloatsyourboat Mario game.

And I am almost certain a "real"/"mainline"/"open world 3D"/whateverfloatsyourboat Mario game is in development. THIS JUST IS NOT IT. I mean it is quite possible Nintendo could abandon that style and never look back, but I think hat would make people sad (see people in THIS THREAD). I'm going to assume they are working on one, and that 3D Land/World will fall into their own subseries like NSMB, Party, Kart, Golf, etc.

Geez.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Bleck]

but the main Mario series IS "open" 3D platform games as of Mario 64.

yeah see the thing here is that you're saying that's what the series IS whereas every other person and/or source is saying that that's what it WAS

And I am almost certain a "real"/"mainline"/"open world 3D"/whateverfloatsyourboat Mario game is in development. THIS JUST IS NOT IT.

a video has already been posted in this thread where the developers of Mario games contradict this objectively; 3D Land and 3D World are, according to Nintendo, the next step in Mario games

just stop posting about this bub

[Crowbar Man]

Must of missed the video where they said "We aren't working on any other style Mario games, EVER, 3D Land/World and NSMB is it from now on". All I heard in those videos were how they were implementing lots of ideas taken from other games in this one, most of that being advertising speak.

And why would Nintendo talk about a product that isn't being released yet in the video of a product they are releasing soon? They want to sell 3D World so of course they are going to talk up 3D World like its the cats pajamas (HA!)

Its just like how they didn't show off/talk about the new Zelda in the Wind Waker HD video, but a new Zelda is definitely coming out eventually. Zelda Wind Waker HD isn't the new one obviously

If Nintendo never ever releases a 3D Mario like Mario64/Sunshine/Galaxy then I am wrong. But do you really want to be right, honestly? :/ I'm staying positive here.

Anywho that aside, I can't wait to see how 3D World turns out. I'm extremely excited!

Edited June 16, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Native Jovian]

So how about those Wii Us, huh guys?

[Foxdyfx]

How can you only consider these games as part of the main series if Nintendo stops making mario 64/sunshine/galaxy kind of games? What kind of horrible logic is that? Obviously Nintendo will revisit something like those games later. Its as if you're saying the Mario series was created on 64.

[zircon]

Again to me it's more that each system has had a Mario game that added new innovations and pushed the system, adding brand new features and gameplay ideas.

* Super Mario Bros 3 on the NES had a somewhat non-linear map system, drastically longer gameplay, tons of secrets, many boss fights, and an item system.

* Super Mario World added more control and movement types for Mario, an even more expanded map system, savegames...

* Mario 64 - first 3D mario, totally new paradigm for all platformers.

* Sunshine - Major new gameplay element, enhanced graphics (of course), brand-new world...

* Galaxy - Tons of new mechanics and innovation across the board, gorgeous orchestrated music, too many new features to count.

NSMB, Mario 3D Land, etc., are more like retro throwbacks. Yes, they're new games and not remakes or ports, but they look and feel very 'familiar' as they are grounded in existing gameplay and don't take any major new risks or change core gameplay much. Whereas SMB3 -> World -> Mario64 -> Sunshine -> Galaxy all brought lots of serious innovation to the table. That's what I think MANY people besides me are expecting and hoping for in a future Mario game.