DJ H3L10S - Hard Zeal

[dbrown1986]

Yet Another...

...Remix

ReMixer: DJ H3L10S

Real Name: David Brown

User ID: 30784

Name of game(s) arranged: Chrono Trigger

Name of arrangement: Hard Zeal

Name of individual song(s) arranged: Corridors of Time

Original Composer: Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda

System(s): SNES, PSX, DS.

Link to the original soundtrack: http://ocremix.org/chip/6132, http://youtu.be/Xsj5xjoLXtE

A good mix so far, I like the direction it's going, good drum loop, nice portomento (slide) and I even included the famous "but you're still hungry..." sound. My concerns are that some parts of it seem a little crude, the drum loop seems to be cracking a little bit (maybe too loud), a lot of the elements of this track are blending together at certain points, there are some loops that end up louder than everything else at certain points and the tempo (112) may be a little too slow (I think 120 might be better). Phew! I think I covered just about all the things I need to fix; but before I go any further, I would like some words from the community. So HAVE AT IT! Gimme your criticism!

Hey! Listen!

112 BPM (The reason for such an odd tempo = it closely matched the source)

http://tindeck.com/listen/jngw

120BPM (More progressive)

http://tindeck.com/listen/dvmn

[ambient]

This made me think of one of my early attempts at remixing - Fields of Time from Chrono Cross. Sounds just as sparse and yet cluttered at the same time.

Dude, love your fancy post with images and all. But your remix needs a lot of work. First of all, you are obviously using one loop (and chopping it occasionally) that sounds a little wrong for either of the BPMs. I like that you are at least trying to break up the track into different sections, have a bit of a drop, that's cool. But it is still very close to the original. Production is weak as well - drum loop is very lo-fi, instruments drown in reverb and yet still sound low quality.

Keep at it and ask peeps for more feedback!

[Rozovian]

I actually like the sound design here, except that first instrument. Mixingwise, there's the aforementioned reverb issues, low and mid range clutter, and a lack of giving each track its own place in the frequency range. There's some compression issues that might be resolved by cutting excess lows from tracks.

Of course, the drum loop does get old, mixing it up with a different loop or intercutting or filtering them would give you more variation and dynamics to the rhythm tracks. The lead is an octave too low to really cut through and just adds to the low range clutter and compression problems. Making the source stand out some more wouldn't hurt.

Dude, more effort on the mixing, less on the post.

[dbrown1986]

That's the #1 thing I hate about FL Studio too, is that what you export to MP3 never sounds like what you have on your mixer and the fact that you import a 120bpm loop into a song that's 120bpm and it isn't synched with the song, so you make adjustments to the time/tempo of the loop and in doing so; the stretch makes the loop sound quite shitty.

I have yet to have any of the many songs I have done accepted by the judging panel, even those that I have poured a lot of work into. Two of my songs have been considered PASSABLE by the JP but have too much of the "Source" material. While I understand that OCR is a lot about bringing a new touch to VG music, I don't think it's true to the original when a remix has 1/8 of the source, I guess what I am saying is if I'm not much of a skilled musician and I'm not ready to get into the big leagues there isn't much I can do with my experience level. Yes, everyone's criticism is VERY helpful, but I suppose it would help if I understood what people meant, and I don't, like cutting the mid-range clutter, frequency ranges, compression, excess lows, filtering, dynamics and mixing are all terms I know NOTHING about, which makes me think I'm in a strange place where I don't belong and I'm trying too hard. Maybe I should take musical theory, but I can't afford school (even with FAFSA and loans).

I don't blame the software for not having a way to do these things automatically, I blame the fact that their documentation doesn't help very much with the aforementioned things, not to mention that there are far too few tutorials for those just starting with FL can thoroughly understand.

[PROTO·DOME]

I don't, like cutting the mid-range clutter, frequency ranges, compression, excess lows, filtering, dynamics and mixing are all terms I know NOTHING about, which makes me think I'm in a strange place where I don't belong and I'm trying too hard. Maybe I should take musical theory, but I can't afford school (even with FAFSA and loans).

I don't blame the software for not having a way to do these things automatically, I blame the fact that their documentation doesn't help very much with the aforementioned things, not to mention that there are far too few tutorials for those just starting with FL can thoroughly understand.

How do you think half the people here learnt this stuff, at school? Pfft. You learn through experimentation. When someone says, "the low end is really cluttered, perhaps use an EQ", you go try and find the "EQ" setting in your DAW. You play with it, see what sounds it makes, perhaps Wiki it to see what's going on technically. With any of these criticisms you simply Google words you don't understand, perhaps ask for clarification if you're really stuck and just experiment.

You're not good right off the bat, it takes time.

[Nutritious]

That's the #1 thing I hate about FL Studio too, is that what you export to MP3 never sounds like what you have on your mixer and the fact that you import a 120bpm loop into a song that's 120bpm and it isn't synched with the song, so you make adjustments to the time/tempo of the loop and in doing so; the stretch makes the loop sound quite shitty.

Navigate to the loop in your browser window (left side of FL screen), right click it, select open in Fruity Slicer. Fix original tempo if necessary. Now you can rearrange the notes easily. Also see: beat slicing.

EDIT: I think I misread what your problem was. You may want to mess around with different stretching modes too, like slice map (or whatever that's called)

[psychowolf]

Ok the first one with the weird time signature, the first lower beat i kinda disliked but as it goes in with the other parts joining it it works really well.

Personally i prefer the later time signature 120bpms

I'd say chrono trigger has been done to death remix wise but to be honest it was an amazing game so it rightfully deserves the remixes anyway...but im going off track.

Don't give up with the program it takes time to learn new things with anything and as protodome stated "you learn by experimenting".

And as i learned with drawing you don't get better at it if you don't practice and experimenting

And i'l just link a tutorial i found

And if those are any help that'll be great

Don't give up mate your on the right track just need a little more coaching and direction to succeed

Good luck on learning more about FL Studio and the terms and stuff

[ambient]

How do you think half the people here learnt this stuff, at school? Pfft. You learn through experimentation. When someone says, "the low end is really cluttered, perhaps use an EQ", you go try and find the "EQ" setting in your DAW. You play with it, see what sounds it makes, perhaps Wiki it to see what's going on technically. With any of these criticisms you simply Google words you don't understand, perhaps ask for clarification if you're really stuck and just experiment.

You're not good right off the bat, it takes time.

Totally agree with everything ProtoDome said. Experiment, look up stuff on the net, there are a million tutorials out there, even on youtube you can find a ton of useful stuff. I actually constantly refer to different tutorials I find on different sites. I use Reason, so don't really know what the links to FL tutorials are. But I am sure you can find plenty of them very easily. Plus, if you spend more time in the community, log into the IRC channel, participate in a couple of remixing competitions on the site, you will pick up all the terminology and you will find a lot of people who are really good at teaching you better techniques and giving practical advice or are simply willing to share what they know.

Definitely keep on doing it and don't get discouraged!

P.S. Sorry, started drafting this before psychowolf made his post but didn't get to post it due to connection issues.

EDIT. zircon has a few tutorials posted on his site:

http://zirconmusic.com/tutorials/videos/

[Rozovian]

I have yet to have any of the many songs I have done accepted by the judging panel, even those that I have poured a lot of work into. Two of my songs have been considered PASSABLE by the JP but have too much of the "Source" material. While I understand that OCR is a lot about bringing a new touch to VG music, I don't think it's true to the original when a remix has 1/8 of the source, I guess what I am saying is if I'm not much of a skilled musician and I'm not ready to get into the big leagues there isn't much I can do with my experience level. Yes, everyone's criticism is VERY helpful, but I suppose it would help if I understood what people meant, and I don't, like cutting the mid-range clutter, frequency ranges, compression, excess lows, filtering, dynamics and mixing are all terms I know NOTHING about, which makes me think I'm in a strange place where I don't belong and I'm trying too hard. Maybe I should take musical theory, but I can't afford school (even with FAFSA and loans).

Well, Liontamer doesn't let a mix onto ocr that isn't at least 50% source, and the rest of the panel also adhere to the "source must be dominant" rule in the submissions standards.

I'll add to the "you don't need school for this" by saying that taking classes is not a bad idea if you have the opportunity, but you can learn this stuff by reading stuff on the net, by experimenting, by practicing, by figuring stuff out, by letting ppl point out what you're doing wrong. Best advice, which I've been spamming all over the place, is to try to understand all feedback, whether you agree with it or not - and apply what you agree with. Trying to understand it can mean to go look stuff up (like the terms we use on a regular basis), to try out what ppl are suggesting (take backups in case their suggestions mess stuff up), or maybe just figuring out what the person was expecting - all depending on the feedback.

Anyway, lemme give you a kick forward by explaining those things you mentioned as having trouble with understanding:

mid-range clutter - this is when you have a lot of sounds in the middle range of the frequency spectrum/range (see below)

frequency range - every sound is made up of frequencies, and the lower a note is, the lower its low frequencies begin. by figuring out (by ear or with a spectrum analyzer) which instruments cover which ranges, you can eq the other other instruments out of those ranges to make all the instruments more clear. we often talk about lows, mids, and highs for different parts of the frequency range, but when you work with instruments you gotta divide the frequency range into more narrow parts (like tenths of the whole range or so). how you understand the frequency range and refer to it doesn't matter, as long as you know what it is and can work with it.

compression - a compressor pushes the sound together so loud parts get softer but soft parts are still soft. because the compressor is usually a bit slow to react (you can set how fast it should react) you get a volume drop right after a loud note. listen to how everything else goes soft when a bass drum hits. that's compression.

excess lows - not all instruments need low frequencies at the level they have them, and some effects (like reverb) can add some unnecessary lows. you can get rid of frequencies that don't add to the sound by using an eq.

filtering - a filter lets some things through and blocks others. in a mixing context, we're talking about frequencies. a typical filter cuts out high frequencies and makes things sound muffled (low pass - low frequencies are passed, high frequencies are cut). the opposite filter does, well, the opposite thing, lets high frequencies through and blocks lows. Combining these, and making the filter edge more prominent (called resonance) can give you some neat effects, especially if you change them over time (automation).

dynamics - dynamics usually refers to the changes in levels over time. soft part, loud part. it can also be applied to intensity rather than strictly to volume. mellow part, intense part. changes in dynamics make a track more interesting.

mixing - mixing is the process of combining individual tracks (instruments, singing, sound effects, stuff) into a single track (song, output, mp3), and all the tools and techniques we use to do this.

Do check out my in-progress remixing guide (in my sig) for some more info, and let me know if I'm explaining stuff well enough there, am missing something, am wrong, or whatever.

[DaMonz]

Just chiming in to say that I was in the same confusing situation as you currently are, a few months ago. All you have to do is to listen to the pros. I've been reading lots of tutorials, and trying lots of stuff in the past months, and all those new terms and concepts are already making much more sense to me. So, as everyone already said, don't give up.

And by the way, this WIP sounds way better than my first attempts

Just thought it'd be nice for you to have a fellow new guy's thoughts

EDIT: Don't be discouraged by my "few months" thing. I'm a full-time student and part-time programmer, so it probably can take less time than that to start getting used to all of this.

[Blackwinged Saron]

very basic, ok...very repetative, good intro...sound, check...emotion, check...time spent on post, way too much. This is a fantastic source, and you obviously have somethign great in your head. You're just not "getting it onto paper" well, so to speak. I have the same problem sometimes. There are a lot of programs out there to use and FL isn't bad...but it's not the best either. I think you need to spend more time planning on where you are going with this, and more time practicing your technique and less time making elaborate setups for something that can only be described as "a good start".