Looking to buy Komplete Elements & Razor. Any reason i shouldn't?

[Derceto]

Hey guys, I am looking for a good general instrument as well as a good synth. I should preface this by letting you know my experience. I've taken 3 midi classes at college & have been playing around with Midi for the last couple years so i know my way around, but i'm still no where near the level of most OCremix composers. I haven't spent a lot of time around the OCremix community, or any real composing community for that matter so I remain fairly naive when it comes to VSTs and other hardware and software specific items related to midi I have been using the default Xpand2 (and a bit of work with Kontact and Absynth in my blass) that came with my DAW so I imagine it shouldn't be hard to please me . In any event i'm not opposed to shelling out a little bit of cash for a good solid instrument or two that i can begin to work with that will sound higher quality. Also let me know if theres a way to buy this from a site that will benefit me or OCremix more than buying straight from Native Instruments.

Thank You

[Rozovian]

Any reason you shouldn't get it? Well...

You shouldn't expect it to do the work for you, you'll still have to mix the tracks right to make it sound good. You get some great sounding instruments straight out of the box with it, but as with everything they're no good to you if you don't know how to use them together. Which you'll have to learn - and you can't expect to not have to learn.

Then there's the hardware issue. If you have an old, underpowered computer, you won't be able to use some of the more demanding parts of Komplete. With little RAM, you won't be able to load a lot of Kontakt instruments. With a slow processor, Guitar Rig and other processing-heavy stuff might not work for you.

Not everything "most ocremix composers" do is done with Komplete (and certainly not with Elements). Some people use other samples, other synths, other effects, real instruments etc.. So be careful with your expectations.

And finally... the full version gets you so much more. Yes, it costs so much more, but it's worth it. If you can, buy that one instead.

There's some reasons not to get Komplete Elements. That said, if you don't have anything else, it's still a good buy.

[Nabeel Ansari]

And finally... the full version gets you so much more. Yes, it costs so much more, but it's worth it. If you can, buy that one instead.

I don't understand why you always say this to everyone considering buying an NI product. It's useless, inapplicable advice because it's common sense. It's like saying you want a fast computer for $1000 and then some guy telling you to put a $1000 processor with three $500 gfx cards in it, telling you it costs more but is "worth it".

"80GB more is better? LOLWUT?! I should go way above my budget then..."

He probably picked Komplete elements because he couldn't afford the whole thing.

The rest of your post is sound, and I echo for emphasis.

Don't expect to get good sounding music right off the bat just because you have good samples.

[Rozovian]

I don't understand why you always say this to everyone considering buying an NI product. It's useless, inapplicable advice because it's common sense. (...) He probably picked Komplete elements because he couldn't afford the whole thing.

I'm saying it because I bought Logic Express instead of the full version (because it was cheaper, obviously), and find myself needing some of its functions but never really wanting to shell out the cash for an upgrade; and how I bought two sample packs that would have been included in the full version. I'm saying it because the same thing happened to my sis in buying Final Cut Express instead of Pro, and it's lacking some much-needed functionality. Or my dad getting a laptop without the appropriate screen adapters, for a few bucks less probably. This just keeps happening when you settle for less.

So if I'm faced with a choice between a cheaper version that lacks feature x, and a more expensive version with feature x and lots of stuff I probably won't even use, I'd still rather pay for the more expensive version, if feature x is something I think I'll need. Like how I've recently been looking to get a strings package with spiccato samples, but they're either too expensive or don't have the stuff I think I need such as an adequate number of round robins or velocity layers (physical modeling strings section plz).

It gets especially annoying when you're talking to ppl who have the full version and assume you do too, or reading about all the things you can do... with the full version. You wonder why such an obvious feature wasn't included in this top-notch tool you bought, and then find that it is... in the full version.

So ultimately, if you can afford it but think there's stuff in there that make you question if it's worth it - get the full version. That's why I'm saying this all the time.

tl;dr: crippleware. not cool.

[Nabeel Ansari]

True, but I would think it's common sense that the more expensive versions give you better functionality.

[Rozovian]

I think it's common sense that ppl don't suddenly start to make good music just because they suddenly have good samples, but you felt it was worth stating anyway.

Common sense - repeating it is a good thing.

[Tensei]

On the other hand, shitty samples can be extremely limiting, especially if you want to spend more time actually making music instead of trying to polish a turd.

[Derceto]

Yeah I could buy the full 560$ instrument, that's just quite a bit more expensive than the 60$ version and i just paid a big down payment on a house with the need to furnish the home, I admit i'm a little cautious about big purchases, but it is important to hear that its worth the extra price-tag. Being unfamiliar with the area of purchasing of VSTs if I'm going to drop 500 bones I want to make sure its worth it, so your recommendation was helpful. You're tempting me! I think I'm leaning toward the complete package now.

The computer shouldn't be a problem I'm running a nice gaming computer with plenty of resources. And I'm not so naive as to think that buying better sounding instruments will somehow transform my music. I'm working on the learning aspect too, but i think upgrading my instruments will help that along, if nothing else it will provide more motivation and a deepened commitment to it.

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen, please feel free to provide more, especially knowing that I think I can stomach the higher price tag. I'd like to be able to buy it and download it tonight as I'm off work tomorrow, so please let me know anything I should know sooner than later.

Thanks again

[Rozovian]

Let me also suggest that you have a look at the free options available before shelling out any money on anything. If you're not used to virtual instruments, go check out the freebies Native Instruments have, whether they be feature-limited freebies or time-limted demos or whatever. This also lets you get into the products faster when you do buy them, when you're used to how the interfaces work. There's also a wide range of other freebies on the net, such as my favorite freebie synths: TAL-Elek7ro II and FreeAlpha. They come with presets.

You haven't listed your DAW, so we can't comment on the tools it came with... or if it's even a full DAW. Make _sure_ it can handle the stuff you buy, or... it'll suck to be you.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I think it's common sense that ppl don't suddenly start to make good music just because they suddenly have good samples, but you felt it was worth stating anyway.

That's not really common sense at all. It's a n00b thought, but definitely not n00b enough to be called common sense.

[Moseph]

You haven't listed your DAW, so we can't comment on the tools it came with... or if it's even a full DAW. Make _sure_ it can handle the stuff you buy, or... it'll suck to be you.

Some version of Pro Tools -- that's what comes up when googling Xpand2, anyway.

[Nabeel Ansari]

You haven't listed your DAW, so we can't comment on the tools it came with... or if it's even a full DAW. Make _sure_ it can handle the stuff you buy, or... it'll suck to be you.

He could always just download REAPER.

[SnappleMan]

The #1 proven fact is that you absolutely get what you pay for.

[halc]

can't speak for Elements, but I purchased Razor about 2 weeks ago and it is a beast, especially at such a bargain price ($80 US, for those curious). great interface too, probably one of the simplest and most fluid I've used.

[PrototypeRaptor]

imo, the only thing worth it in NI's synth line is Massive

All the others are just not top shelf stuff anymore, sound-wise

save your money and learn how to program with one synth first, then look at the options...

I would recommend Massive for that - it can do just about anything you want/would need to learn.

[big giant circles]

It's not 100% what you have, but more how you use what you have.

Some people can make really rad music out of totally free/cheap samples/plugins. It depends a lot on what you're going for. If you're doing electronic music, there are a billion and one ways to achieve an end. Some people prefer to just go ahead and fork over the cash to go straight to the more pro-end stuff like Omnisphere, Alchemy, Komplete, etc etc while others can do really amazing work using entirely free stuff laying around on the internet.

If you're looking to experiment, Komplete Elements is fine. It's obviously not as fully loaded as the individual plugins are, but it's a lump of presets that might help you get some new sounds in your music. And there is nothing wrong with that at all, as long as your output sounds good.

If you've never used any Native Instruments stuff before, you can always download demo versions of their instruments. Not to mention they have some free versions like the Kore Player and Kontakt Player. Definitely pick those up, there's no reason for you not to. Alchemy even has a free player, and even it's got some great sounds. Again, you're limited when it comes to customizing the sounds they give you, but that doesn't mean you can't use them and make something that sounds cool.

Whatever you get, just try to learn to use it well. If you come to rely too much on presets, you might find that it hinders your creative process rather than help it. So those are the points to consider.

For $50, even though Elements is limited, that's a really good price for a decent quantity and variety of sounds, especially if you're not looking to spend $500 right this minute. You can always upgrade later.

As for helping OCR, you can pick it up by going through our affiliate links, which are through Amazon and Zzounds. I don't think Zzounds carries it, and it looks like Amazon only has Komplete 7 Elements, which is $99 (though it gives you 14 gigs of content as opposed to 3). http://ocremix.org/amazon/

Hope this info helps, don't let these guys overwhelm you :]

[Derceto]

Hey! Thanks again for all the helpful replies!

I am running Pro Tools LE. I did download the free 1 GB Komplete package and that seems to run just fine within my DAW, and I'm already really enjoying the sound so far. I figured that there was a lot of cool free stuff on the internet, but I think its probably worth the money to me to save all of the time that i would have to invest to find it. Its Time I would rather spend working on music.

[Derceto]

Looks like I can get the Komplete 7 package on amazon for 500 instead of 560, I will have to wait a week, but it's probably worth the wait, especially since I can support OCremix by so doing. So i think I'll do that.

Thanks all.

[ShrackAttack]

You also might want to take Komplete 6 into consideration. 6 comes with all of the core stuff and they are all the same version as Komplete 7, but it lacks some of the fluff (though some of that fluff is very nice). You can get Komplete 6 for about 300$ now from random music stores...they tend to put their older products up on ebay. Back when I bought it a few months ago it was only 250$ with no shipping cost which was a freaking steal. It looks like there are 4 copies up on Ebay right now from what looks to be a legit dealer. I'd say go with Buy.com but it looks like they are out of stock now.

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/komplete-7/?page=1656 - Comparison Chart (Massive, Absynth 5, Battery 3, Kontakt 4, FM8, Reaktor 5 are the core programs)

Even if you go the Komplete 6 route and decide you just really want 7 sometime down the road, the upgrade is still only 200$. So you'd still only be spending in the 500$ range.

Just my 2 cents if you're trying to save a bit on cash.

[zircon]

Yep, I would try to get 6 full instead of 7. You're not getting anything incredibly new and useful with 7. The key stuff is Kontakt and Battery.

As for Massive vs. everything else, I don't really understand the Massive hype. I use it myself, but while it has some nifty features, it's a CPU hog and sounds very digital (which may or may not be what you want.) Fundamentally it's just a wavetable synth with some neat FX. That's all. A synth like Zebra has far more powerful and flexible oscillators, plus a more flexible architecture. Razor at least has a novel synthesis method and a different timbre. Before you say that Massive is dirty/gritty, I guess it can be, but if you really want to get that ultra-commercial sort of bass sound you need to do a lot of processing outside your synth anyway, and/or resampling (a la Noisia, Prodigy, and so on.)