OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming

[Nabeel Ansari]

Also your Angry Birds example is not too good, as they already have Angry Birds on consoles, Google TV, Roku, etc.

Do you read?

I'm sorry, I didn't know "almost every indie developer" amounted to a total of 7 quotes.

[Gario]

Do you read?

Pretty sure he does read - kind of hard to use a forum if he refused to do so. Reading between the lines and looking at things past their literal implications are also things he can apparently do, too - seven quotes from well known indie developers can easily infer a lot of other unspoken support ("almost every indie developer that's heard of OUYA" might be a pretty accurate guess, in fact).

Also, in the little coding experience that I have I could easily see the transfer to OUYA from other platforms (specifically the Android) being incredibly easy, since it runs on the same engine. Changing from one input style to another is not a big deal - it's just making a few changes to what input affects what variable. Since the touch screen is rarely used in such a way that a controller would not physically be capable of handling the same functions, I could see a lot of popular games being transferable.

[Nabeel Ansari]

("almost every indie developer that's heard of OUYA" might be a pretty accurate guess, in fact).

It would've been, if that's what he actually said.

He said "almost every indie developer's interest" and until he cites something credible, I simply don't believe him.

[Crowbar Man]

Do you read?

What is this a counter argument to?

I don't even know what you are arguing anymore. If you aren't going to take whats on the kickstarter page, with just a small pool of the bigger indie developers listed, and the games they've already shown, AND the continous announcements of games being announced for OUYA, as "evidence", what would you take? Does there need to be a list of every indie developer in the world saying "Why yes, i am interested!"?

Heres a better question, I'll repeat: Why would ANY indie developer, especially if developing already on Android, NOT be interested in the first place?

You are pushing my words way too literally just to make some odd point that doesn't exsist. All I said was that I was sure any indie dev would be interested. Sorry I worded it in a way you didn't like?

I guess if you can't gain any footing on the other things (Coding, Input) might as well focus on something eh?

Edited August 4, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Gario]

It would've been, if that's what he actually said.

I was clarifying, for your sake. Sometimes people mean one thing and say another, since in normal human interaction they don't expect people to trip on details like that. There is no possible way that he could have meant anyone who hasn't heard of OUYA, as that makes no logical sense (unless one were to assume he's an imbecile - I don't, and I see no reason you should, either).

EDIT: Crowbar Man is now Ninja Man.

I see they have an extra 40$ campaign to give people a unique OUYA at launch. I can see that giving their systems a nice push in this last week, but I'll have to pass on it. Starting to feel the pinch on my pocket, and I'd rather spend that money on FF6 if/when that gets moving again.

[The Derrit]

Heres a better question, I'll repeat: Why would ANY indie developer, especially if developing already on Android, NOT be interested in the first place?

Because there are better, larger, more established marketplaces to sell your games in for more money.

That was a lot simpler than I thought it would be.

[Nabeel Ansari]

What is this a counter argument to?

I don't even know what you are arguing anymore. If you aren't going to take whats on the kickstarter page, with just a small pool of the bigger indie developers listed, and the games they've already shown, AND the continous announcements of games being announced for OUYA, as "evidence", what would you take? Does there need to be a list of every indie developer in the world saying "Why yes, i am interested!"?

Heres a better question, I'll repeat: Why would ANY indie developer, especially if developing already on Android, NOT be interested in the first place?

You are pushing my words way too literally just to make some odd point that doesn't exsist. All I said was that I was sure any indie dev would be interested. Sorry I worded it in a way you didn't like?

I guess if you can't gain any footing on the other things (Coding, Input) might as well focus on something eh?

You should really stop veering off topic. (And for the record, your Angry Birds comment was completely off the mark because you didn't read the details of what I was saying)

Your point is completely invalid that this has TONS AND TONS of support and EVERYONE is on board with this.

7 people on the kickstarter page. I want you to go on Steam and count the number of Indie game developers you see there. If you think 7 is indicative that the even half the rest of the indie developer population feels the same, you don't know a thing about basic statistics. Have you ever thought that maybe the few big indie developers are the ones that are interested because they're established enough (therefore confident) to try such a venture?

You realize the issue with the Ouya game business model, right? That the games are free? Just because something is an Indie game doesn't mean it doesn't cost money to make. That's an ignorant suggestion that I hope neither you nor anyone will make.

I am not pushing some odd point that doesn't exist. You can't say "we have tons of indie games!" if you all have is Minecraft and Canabalt (and the few others).

Edited August 4, 2012 by Neblix

[Dhsu]

Ouya games aren't free. They have to have a free demo, but other than that prices are set by the developer. Ouya gets a 30% cut of sales.

Because there are better, larger, more established marketplaces to sell your games in for more money.

That was a lot simpler than I thought it would be.

Yes, of course there are larger and more established marketplaces. Duh. I mean, why would ANYONE sell their game on PSN or XBLA when Steam is a much larger and more established marketplace???

Edited August 4, 2012 by Dhsu

[Nabeel Ansari]

Ouya games aren't free. They have to have a free demo, but other than that prices are set by the developer. Ouya gets a 30% cut of sales.

Yes, of course there are larger and more established marketplaces. Duh. I mean, why would ANYONE you sell their game on PSN or XBLA when Steam is a much larger and more established marketplace???

I must have misunderstood the lady when she said "We'll have a full store of games, all free to play."

[Crowbar Man]

Because there are better, larger, more established marketplaces to sell your games in for more money.

Larger/Better/More Established, and just as inexpensive to put your game on?

And uses the same codebase as Android?

Angry Birds comment was completely off the mark because you didn't read the details of what I was saying

I read the details, you were already countered by everybody else posts. I just added the fact its already on consoles / Google TV / Roku . I didn't feel the need to repeat what was already said by others, but if you would like I can?

That the games are free?

Correction: There is a push for access to free material. As in, at least a portion of the game free. This can range from Ad sponsored to Free 2 Play to Demo w/ Paid full version (like MC/Shadowgun/FFIII). Maybe you've been ignoring the booming mobile sector and PC market that has established this type revenue over the last few years? This is a lucrative market that makes tons of money for devs big and small.

Just because something is an Indie game doesn't mean it doesn't cost money to make. That's an ignorant suggestion that I hope neither you nor anyone will make.

Except for the fact there are tons of indies who release games absolutely free. Cave Story being a prime early example of a top quality product that had no funding, and didn't ask for a dime for years. Maybe you've heard of it? No, not all Indie devs are like this, but it is entirely possible to make a game funded with nothing but your will power.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Nabeel Ansari]

I don't know, Cave Story+ looks like $9.99 to me...

[Crowbar Man]

Thats Cave Story+, the remake. Cave Story, the original, is still free. Nice try?

Edited August 4, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Nabeel Ansari]

Thats Cave Story+, the remake. Cave Story, the original, is still free. Nice try?

Nice try, what? I wasn't saying Cave Story was $9.99. I even said Cave Story+.

[Crowbar Man]

Do you have a point to the post then? CaveStory+ a remake co-developed and released by Nicalis on Wii, and later Steam, neither of them free or cheap to publish, one not cheap to develop for (Wii), charges money for the product.

Yes? I agree?

As stated in MY post: several years ago, Studio Pixel, a one man developer, made Cave Story in his spare time and released it free on the PC, where you can still get it for free.

I dont know what more to say

Edited August 4, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Newt]

I must have misunderstood the lady when she said "We'll have a full store of games, all free to play."

Yes, you did.

You missed literally everything else where they directly indicate that games need only have a free demo. This makes the service essentially no different from what you find on XBL.

If you're going to treat the internet like a peer-reviewed journal, you really shouldn't pick and choose comments without maintaining the proper context. Doing so tends to make you fail peer review.

From the ouya kickstarter:

"We're handing the reins over to the developer with only one condition: at least some gameplay has to be free. [..] Developers can offer a free demo with a full-game upgrade, in-game items or powers, or ask you to subscribe."

[The Derrit]

As stated in MY post: several years ago, Studio Pixel, a one man developer, made Cave Story in his spare time and released it free on the PC, where you can still get it for free.

congratulations to him. unless it got him a job that was a complete waste of time.

nobody puts hours and hours into making a game for no personal benefit whatsoever. implying that it's often done, or even done at all, would be ignorant.

Larger/Better/More Established, and just as inexpensive to put your game on?

if the only amount of money you're considering is the initial up-front cost, sure. the only thing being there is a major difference in exposure and likelihood of success. it's akin to buying a 10 dollar advertisement in the bottom corner of the sports page, or paying 200 dollars to get your advertisement up on a huge billboard in the middle of a packed freeway for a month. one's less expensive, and it's for a pretty good reason.

Yes, of course there are larger and more established marketplaces. Duh. I mean, why would ANYONE sell their game on PSN or XBLA when Steam is a much larger and more established marketplace???

because one is on pc and one is on console. pc gaming and console gaming are separate markets; don't compare apples and oranges. on the other hand, ouya is a console and xbox/ps3 are consoles. so it actually is the same thing with a smaller, less established base where you're likely to make less profit. i don't get what you guys see here, if i open a sports company and say 'hey my spandex shorts are going to be 10 dollars less than Nike's!" Nike is still going to crush the shit out of my company. i don't get where you all seem to see this amazing expansion of market size that's going to magically happen, the gaming industry is frankly overcrowded already.

This makes the service essentially no different from what you find on XBL.

SO WHY IS IT SPECIAL OR IMPORTANT, IF IT'S ALREADY DONE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Edited August 4, 2012 by The Derrit

[Crowbar Man]

congratulations to him. unless it got him a job that was a complete waste of time.

nobody puts hours and hours into making a game for no personal benefit whatsoever. implying that it's often done, or even done at all, would be ignorant.

Wait, so your saying all the small time indie devs who make fantastic games are all wasting their time simply because there is no personal benefit? Wow. Talk about ignorant.

Also CAVE STORY is a complete waste of time to have been made? Are you out of your damn mind?

SO WHY IS IT SPECIAL OR IMPORTANT, IF IT'S ALREADY DONE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

XBL is extremely expensive in both getting your game on (publish), development (dev kit), and upkeep (updates/new content all require tens of thousands of dollars each certification). Thats why? Have you not been paying attention?

EDIT:

Also to cure your vast lack of knowledge of the indie scene, I'd like to point you to this:

TIGSource Indie DB

Just a small database of how wrong you are. For your convenience, I've selected "Top" and "Freeware"

Edited August 4, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Newt]

SO WHY IS IT SPECIAL OR IMPORTANT, IF IT'S ALREADY DONE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I actually agree with you. I don't see a purpose to the OUYA, it will be severely outdated by the time it launches, even in the mobile space (presumably where it will get most/all of its games). I don't like how one of the key selling points is the ability to root it and "side-load" applications. Nor do I think there is a real demand for something like this by developers (and by proxy, consumers).

One of many reasons I didn't throw my money at them.

I'm far more interested in PlayStation Mobile and seeing if Sony can prevent that from becoming a cesspit that they try to silently kill, unlike XBLIG. I'd also like to see how Steam GreenLight turns out. These initiatives try to get smaller devs on existing and valuable platforms.

[Dhsu]

because one is on pc and one is on console. pc gaming and console gaming are separate markets; don't compare apples and oranges.

Wait, who was comparing them?

herein lies a system that creates no new market share, as the intended target audiences already use steam, xbox marketplace, psn network (whatever the hell it's called), the apple app store and direct indie purchases to get their games.

Oh right, it was you.

SO WHY IS IT SPECIAL OR IMPORTANT, IF IT'S ALREADY DONE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Let me ask you this: why do the PS3 and PSN exist when we already have Xbox 360 and XBLA?

Edited August 4, 2012 by Dhsu

[DaMonz]

Hmm I think this debate is getting extremely hot, and I also think there's no point in getting so angry about who's right and who's wrong x_x

There are valuable arguments on both sides, and I think it's pointless to try and destroy every argument that everyone brings. I'd rather wait and see what'll happen with the ouya when it's out than fight to the death to figure out who's "right" xD

Just my 2 cents

[Dhsu]

Also CAVE STORY is a complete waste of time to have been made? Are you out of your damn mind?

Also this.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Let me ask you this: why do the PS3 and PSN exist when we already have Xbox 360 and XBLA?

PS3 is a competitor to Xbox 360.

Ouya is not a competitor to any game console.

[zircon]

PS3 is a competitor to Xbox 360.

Ouya is not a competitor to any game console.

Something can be considered competition (or a substitute good) without having the exact same or even similar tech specs. For example, while The Sims and Rage obviously cater to different segments of the general game buying market, they still share the same product category. They're both video games. If aggregate demand for video games fluctuates, it will affect both those things. An example of two products/goods that are NOT substitutes/competitors would be something like movies and video games, or books and movies. You could broadly say they're both entertainment, but since they each have independent demand, that classification would be way too broad.

In other words, the Ouya isn't in its own category. It's functionally similar to an Xbox, PS3 or Wii, a statement further reinforced by the fact that it will share some of the same games. This fact also doesn't doom it to failure, since competing/substitute products can coexist successfully (see: Pepsi vs. Coke)

I don't buy Newt's argument about developer support since, as we've been noting repeatedly, this isn't a completely new platform with its own complex devkit and code base. It's running the same software (Android) as existing platforms, and so developers will have no reason NOT to port their games over unless the entry fees are extremely high (which I doubt). A good analog would be how there are many stores in which artists can sell their music. iTunes, in my experience, is by far the most lucrative. But if I can sell music on other stores at virtually no additional time/money cost to me, there's no risk, and potential reward. Even if, say, Rhapsody generates 1/100 the revenue of iTunes that's still an extra 1% income for me.

Edited August 4, 2012 by zircon

[The Derrit]

Wait, who was comparing them?

you were. either that or you're just throwing out snarky comments for fun now.

and you guys seem to misunderstand the meaning of "personal benefit." personal benefit can spring from a variety of things. small companies that make small games have a purpose. the purpose of their employees is to get noticed by a larger games company that can give them the payday they believe they deserve, or to find a monetary backer for their next game, or to build experience, or any number of things. it's the same as in any entertainment industry, in order to get noticed you have to put your work out for people to see, largely on your own time and dime. but it is NOT the end, it is the MEANS. obviously not everyone wants to work at a capcom or a nintendo but freeware has a purpose, it is not the mana from the heavens you people are making it out to be.

another thing you're all not thinking of is low barrier to entry means lower standard of quality.

[Dhsu]

Cool, way to completely ignore my point.

Also by your logic remixing is a complete waste of time.