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SOLDIER0m3ga

Suggestions, please!

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Why? You should at least explain. :P

Because, for one, more of the more popular and higher rated softwares for this kind of stuff are specifically for Mac, OR, they are more preferred for the Mac, because the layout of the Mac seems to be an easier layout for music production and film production (it is, at least for me).

Also, more pros use Macs. I am the son of a professional studio drummer and producer, and I have yet to find a professional recording studio that uses a PC rather than a Mac. I almost always see Pro Tools being used on a Mac (though, again, it can be used for the PC), and occasionally Logic Pro.

Logic Pro is something I see more of at a professional's little home studio. Lots of professional recording studios, though, are actually in houses, and I'm seeing less and less of big studios that people invested hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars on, because those studios (and sort of unfortunately) aren't really needed anymore. Every year it's becoming easier and easier to make music and have a little studio of your own.

But back to the point, Logic Pro is something I normally prefer for people alone who are working on stuff by themselves, or are more into the programmy and techno stuff. Though those are clearly not its limits. My record was half acoustic. It can pull off stuff just as good as Pro Tools. But the layout and some of the features and tools in Pro Tools are better for the big studio recording and engineering.

That was a really long reply. :D

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Because, for one, more of the more popular and higher rated softwares for this kind of stuff are specifically for Mac, OR, they are more preferred for the Mac, because the layout of the Mac seems to be an easier layout for music production and film production (it is, at least for me).

Also, more pros use Macs. I am the son of a professional studio drummer and producer, and I have yet to find a professional recording studio that uses a PC rather than a Mac. I almost always see Pro Tools being used on a Mac (though, again, it can be used for the PC), and occasionally Logic Pro.

Popularity of a system doesn't make it better. :|

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At the risk of inflaming said war, 90% of film composers use Logic Pro to simultaneously compose and produce.

Actually, I knew about that. Lol, sorry, that's one huge exception. :D

Popularity of a system doesn't make it better. :neutral:

No, but if more people (including professionals) are using it and saying it works better (as it does for me, as I have figured out from experience from originally using PC and then moving to Mac when I heard its goodness), then that normally means it probably works better.

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DAW wars and PC vs MAC are all a bunch of baseless bullshit, like Gibson vs Fender, Roland vs Yamaha, NESkimos vs Minibosses.

In the music world (ESPECIALLY the professional side of it) all it comes down to is tradition and principle. You have to use Protools because you have to use Protools because some asshole who got lucky with a hit album in 1983 uses Protools.

What it comes down to are the key differences in these software packages:

Pro Tools was crucial for high end recording because of the hardware that it interfaced with. The dedicated PT boxes (digi 192, HD, Lynx, Prism) have the absolute best A/D converter options available. Pro Tools is severely lacking as a DAW when it comes to compositional tools, since it doesn't NEED to be the best at that.

Cubase/Sonar are the best DAWs you can get for composition. They have the best feature combinations for MIDI, audio, scoring, mixing. What makes them stand out is that they both support VST, which is the premier plugin format. For me, Cubase works must faster (less UI lag and such) and it has the absolute BEST vst support (since VST is native to Cubase and the other DAWs have to use internal wrappers to support it... or logic with it's external wrappers that barely support it without crashing).

Logic is good but most people use it because it's an apple product and most musicians who swear by macs are uneducated and they own every single ipod/iphone/ipad model on release day, they don't count. It works well for composing, not so well for mixing, and it's overall a nice DAW. Lack of decent VST support means you have to use wrappers that don't work correctly with every plugin.

Reaper is great on paper, I don't like it. Lots of people love this DAW, for me the workflow isn't ideal and the VST support is buggy at times. Great price, great features.

FL is decent. It doesn't really shine in any one area but it works well overall. I've heard some great music done by people who use FL. From what I used of it, I didn't like it at all.

Reason is not a DAW.

Overall the way it works for pros is, they'll compose music in Logic, Cubase, Sonar. They then export the score, demo, whatever else, and have the song recorded on a Pro Tools system.

Now this is all changing a bit, because pro tools isn't as exclusive as it used to be. In the last 5 or so years there has been a huge boost in development of mid-priced high quality ASIO interfaces, so much so that pro tools was forced to start supporting it due to declining business. So the entire playing field is slowly changing now.

I use Cubase primarily, I also use Logic and Pro Tools. The ONLY reason I use Pro Tools is when a client says that protools is a must because they somehow know that protools is the best sounding DAW. The only reason I use Logic is to import Logic projects from clients who use it.

As far as computers, I use both PCs and Macs for music. I have Cubase and Protools installed on both, Logic is Mac only so that's that. I overwhelmingly prefer to use PCs and Windows for my DAWs. OSX is good but the window layout and lack of workflow makes it feel more cumbersome and less productive than Windows. Performance wise there is no difference, since PCs and Macs both use the same internal hardware. My PCs interface better with outboard gear and work better with PCI audio cards, the Macs I use primarily for people who believe that I need a mac to correctly mix their shitty punk rock wannabe album.

So basically, I prefer Cubase, I prefer PC, and I prefer Windows. The only reasons I use Pro Tools, Logic and Mac are because they help me get gigs because some people think that you need those things to be a musician. There is no right or wrong answer to any of is. You have to try all the available demos and get a feel for how your brain likes to make music. All these software packages do basically the same things, the difference is in HOW they do these things. There is also no right answer for hardware either. PC and Mac work the same, but PC needs more maintenance and more knowhow when building it. Macs are easier and less problematic, like a bike with training wheels. Most professionals don't want to mess with defragmenting and formatting and selecting compatible hardware and tuning their ram and working out the best cooling/OC solutions, they just want to plug in->turn on->compose, so Mac works for that.

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Popularity of a system doesn't make it better. :|

pretty much.

The reason people like Macs for studio is because Macs are popular for high-graphic work and people assume this extends to audio. Personally, if I had a Mac I would install Windows on it. Preferences are personal but I find Windows much easier than Mac (and much less idiot-proof, which is fine by me). To me, a Mac is bad on general workflow, but maybe that's just because I grew up on the simplicity and edit-ability of Windows.

However, on to this argument:

I took a music production class two years ago.

Tried to write a song in Garageband. Got ok results.

Tried to write a song in Pro Tools. Didn't work.

Garageband was fantastic to use, but it's on a Mac and is Mac-exclusive. However, the workflow is very easy to use, which is why I had to find a "garageband equivalent for windows", which I now use: Mixcraft. Don't get me wrong, other DAWs like FL are great to use and have really cool features, but I really like the workflow of Mixcraft.

If you're low on budget, look around at multiple DAW websites. Some are cheaper than others, some have different benefits over others (for instance, Mixcraft can't do the advanced pitch-bending that FL can with some of it's plugins).

My suggestion is downloading trial versions of different DAWs. Find a DAW that you enjoy using, is easy to use, but not too easy (and by too easy I mean you can't do some things in this DAW no matter what you try and it's holding you back), and is relatively budget-friendly.

Actually, one thing I looked at before deciding on a DAW was the trial mode itself. Does this DAW let you save and load project files again? Is there a certain trial period, day-wise? If so, what happens at the end of the trial? so on and so forth.

What I've found out is that some DAWs have funky trial-mode workarounds (FL doesn't let you load trial project files, but you can leave FL open and shut down your computer with "Hibernate" instead; Mixcraft won't let you mix down to an audio file after X days, but you can bounce multiple tracks to waves, then combine them into a single WAV file) that you can exploit when/if the trial mode ends and you don't want/can't buy a full version yet.

tl;dr shop around and try different DAWs and see what works best for your budget

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Ok, well I guess SnappleMan just answered every question, but I enjoy Macs better because I believe the format and layout of a Mac is easier, simpler, and works better for me and music production. Again, I totally have nothing against Windows, but I just think Macs works better for this stuff because it's just much simpler for me. And maybe it's just Tennessee, lol. Most people down here seem to think Macs are better. Of course, that doesn't make them better. More people just own them and enjoy them more.

PCs are great for business and gaming, though, and programming and whatever. I just can't work with the format of Windows.

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And maybe it's just Tennessee, lol. Most people down here seem to think Macs are better. Of course, that doesn't make them better. More people just own them and enjoy them more.

This is news to me. I've been bumming around various studios and equipment setups, including the stage ones at Dollywood, and the only time I've ever seen a Mac was at my old community college studio.

Maybe its different in Nashville, but to the best of my knowledge, everyone down here use their own performing skills to record, not with computers.

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This is news to me. I've been bumming around various studios and equipment setups, including the stage ones at Dollywood, and the only time I've ever seen a Mac was at my old community college studio.

Maybe its different in Nashville, but to the best of my knowledge, everyone down here use their own performing skills to record, not with computers.

It's Nashville. :D I live around Nashville.

Again, I have yet to see a PC being used in a professional recording studio. I always see Pro Tools and a Mac.

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Seems snappleman hit the nail on the head.

Personally I think macs are more stable, and in a pro studio environment it's not a good idea to make your clients wait for a quick reboot. Then again the only PC I've used in a studio environment was running Pyramix. Not sure if it was a Pyramix fault or Windows but that fell over more than you might hope for.

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Hey, I was just saying I like Macs more and I think they work better for this stuff. I also said I have nothing against PCs. I meant nothing of any war, and I didn't mean to make any of my replies something to debate upon... though I do enjoy debating. Lol.

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Hey, I was just saying I like Macs more and I think they work better for this stuff. I also said I have nothing against PCs. I meant nothing of any war, and I didn't mean to make any of my replies something to debate upon... though I do enjoy debating. Lol.

I think the problem is your initial posts just made some straight up generalizations about Macs and Logic and how "they are just better." When in fact, as you later stated, this was just your opinion. Would have avoided this whole mess if you directly stated they were your views from the beginning based solely upon your opinion.

And to another topic Reason isn't as closed as it used to be. Audio recording and it's own plug-in format has being more of an open system than before. It's def a different cup of tea and not for everyone.

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actually, nevermind guys...Google Chrome, my browser, is awesome...i typed in DAW...and it automatically brought up 38,700,000 results in 0.47 seconds

SOLDIER0m3ga

...don't you mean "browser"?

ATT is an ISP, Verizon Home and Business is an ISP. Time Warner Cable HSI is an ISP.

IE is a browser. Chrome is a browser.

But I digress. Yes, DAW is a Digital Audio Workstation, and there are dozens of them out there.

So find a couple you might like and take them for a spin.

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One thing I like about OSX's Core Audio is that I can run audio at low latencies, and at the same time still maintain system sounds (i.e. listen to youtube, email beeps etc)

Last I was on windows (this was at least a decade ago, with a Tapco Link.USB audio interface), when I had asio engaged, everything else had no sound. I'm not sure if this is the case in newer versions of windows, but that is part of why I went with osx.

On the flip side, osx has issues like having to load vsl/play before kontakt due to memory server issues, blah blah blah. Platform/daw has its plus and minus points; pick the best for yourself. I have tried very hard to like and use fruity loops back in the day, but it just does not work for me :-/ Logic otoh is :3

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One thing I like about OSX's Core Audio is that I can run audio at low latencies, and at the same time still maintain system sounds (i.e. listen to youtube, email beeps etc)

Last I was on windows (this was at least a decade ago, with a Tapco Link.USB audio interface), when I had asio engaged, everything else had no sound. I'm not sure if this is the case in newer versions of windows, but that is part of why I went with osx.

ASIO must have changed before I started using it, because I've never had that problem.

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ASIO must have changed before I started using it, because I've never had that problem.

I've had this problem with ASIO4All, but I'm using it on a laptop so that might have something to do with it

it seems like ASIO4all wants to exclusively control my computer's sound output, but if it can't it won't play any audio. It's very cranky most days, and so I don't use it often for this reason

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I'm pretty sure I used asio4all back in the day, can't remember why I didn't use the manufacturer's drivers. I'm thinking if your audio hardware has proper drivers on windows, simultaneous playback is fine?

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I'm pretty sure I used asio4all back in the day, can't remember why I didn't use the manufacturer's drivers. I'm thinking if your audio hardware has proper drivers on windows, simultaneous playback is fine?

It is for me. My Line 6 POD Studio's ASIO drivers work fine for simultaneous playback. Which is good, because I kinda need that to learn the songs I'm remixing. :lol:

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