"Dancing Mad" from FF6 and "Nisus" from The Last Remnant fusion remix

[HeavenWraith]

So I'm approaching the finish line with this track and am seeking some tips/comments on certain parts of the mix and also everything in general, I guess. This is a symphonic metal (not entirely sure, I'm not any good at distinguishing between music sub-genres) remix of "Dancing Mad" from Final Fantasy VI (Uematsu Nobuo) and "Nisus" from The Last Remnant (Sekito Tsuyoshi), my 3rd OC-oriented remix in total.

Soundcloud stream link.

[quintin3265]

So I'm approaching the finish line with this track and am seeking some tips/comments on certain parts of the mix and also everything in general, I guess. This is a symphonic metal (not entirely sure, I'm not any good at distinguishing between music sub-genres) remix of "Dancing Mad" from Final Fantasy VI (Uematsu Nobuo) and "Nisus" from The Last Remnant (Sekito Tsuyoshi), my 3rd OC-oriented remix in total.

Soundcloud stream link.

On to particular points I'm unsure with.

1:39

The essence of this part is accentuated choir octaves, however the choir sample I'm using is not exactly capable of that. So I was thinking some of you might now free samples/sample packs of "orchestral hit"-like mixed choir, that wouldn't sound out of place in this particular mix.

2:43

Though I've tried to refine the sound of the clean guitar to my satisfaction, I still cannot make it sound... clean and bright like in professional mixes. Maybe the preamp plugin is the problem, perhaps my guitar just isn't able to provide a sound of quality. I'd like those of you, who use clean guitar(s) in their mixes, share a bit of knowledge on how to make it sound better.

3:50

I feel like the slow part is overloaded with mid-range frequencies. I guess I just want someone to confirm it and motivate me to get off my lazy ass and fix it.

4:47

Just listing this because I want to make sure if I'm not the only one who thinks this solo is out of place.

While I'm listening to the track while writing up this post, a thought crossed my mind: the mix seems to be too muddy overall. Though I've come up with an ingenious plan to fix that - lower the reverb levels. Yet again, I guess I just need a confirmation from someone.

Extremely sorry for a lengthy post, the tl;dr people may as well just ignore the body and comment on the track. Any advice is appreciated!

I'm impressed by this remix. I don't know why nobody has commented on it yet.

I'm not familiar with "Nisus," but what immediately struck me was that you varied up the tune in Dancing Mad. That song has been done so many times that it's difficult to find a remix that doesn't sound similar to some other mix.

Unfortunately, production is always the killer around here, because it's usually not possible to pay an orchestra tens of thousands of dollars to play a remix. Nevertheless, I think that this mix could perhaps be improved by simply substituting some samples. For example, I don't think that the drums hit hard enough, or perhaps they aren't loud enough. You definitely get the metal feel from the guitars, but a metal band would have drums that are louder and sharper than these.

When I edit movies, one of the ideas I try to follow is to maximize your strengths. I don't have cameras that handle the dark well, so when I do weddings, I edit the videos to avoid dark scenes. I could have tried to fix up the lighting in post-production, but it would take a lot of time and would be difficult to get right.

Since a choir is difficult to find, try to minimize the use of the choir, or replace it with other instruments in some or all places. I wouldn't worry so much about trying to find better samples (which may not exist) and instead see what can be done with the stuff you have. One bad sample (or bad scene) can make a song (or video) seem amateur. People usually don't notice if you simply don't include something.

[HeavenWraith]

I'm glad you feel that way about the remix. Noted the drum part, I will certainly enhance them the moment I get to the mastering phase. Regarding the choir samples, that's a nice kind of approach you're suggesting there. Even though it seems obvious, I literally didn't even think about replacing it with anything else because somehow I was 100% sure that only choir will do the trick in this mix, but now that I rethink things, I can think of at least 3 samples from my weaponry that would fit the role perfectly. Oh well, live and learn, I should constantly keep reminding myself to be open-minded.

[jnWake]

Nice song!

I like the piano at the beggining of the song.

Guitars entering at 0:18 should be louder. It sounds like bass + a bit of distortion. Drums are kind of weak too, the snare doesn't really fit a metal song, way too wet.

I like how you add the classic organ section at the 1:10 mark, nicely done!

Like quintin3625 mentioned, the string sample is very weak, sounds like directly taken from FFVII or Legend of Dragoon.

For the 1:39 section, I can't really suggest samples, but you should go with Orchesta Hits (like Children of Bodom!). The piano sample also sounds a bit bad here, like a bit too weak, maybe lower it one octave.

1:50 section is very cool too, I like the drums. Piano at 2:05 feels a bit weak too, maybe you used too much reverb or something?

Choir sample at 2:30 is bad, but I think it really fits, I hope you can get a better sample for that section.

Transition at 2:43 is fun, reminds me of (very) early Symphony X. The Clean Guitar needs to be louder, and maybe try to let less notes ringing, since it sounds a bit messy. Delay is a bit strong on the following lead.

The choir sample at the 3:10 section reminds me of Symphony X again! This time you could easily change it for a pad (look for DSK's ChoirZ sample, it's free and could be useful here).

Piano has a bit too much reverb again I think in the following section. Low quality samples with too much reverb sound bad (like, really fake echo sounds). Flute is a bit low on this section.

Nice solo at 4:50. You got out of tune a few times though (4:58 and another short bend later). Choir could be changed for a pad sample here too.

Following sections are similar to what I've already commented, same strengths and weaknesses.

Overall, I really like the arrangement you created, not something I hear often here on OCRemix.

Main criticism is that you used too much reverb (you noted that too). The string sample is weak, I believe DSK has better ones than the one you used (but they aren't very good either). Choir can be replaced by pads on the slower sections, I think it doesn't sound that bad in the other sections.

Also, raise the volume on the rhytm guitar! They are really low, feeling like a small complement to the bass (it should be the other way around!).

[HeavenWraith]

Thank you for the comments, I took them into account and baked a new revision of the remix. I replaced some of the samples, made the mix clearer and adjusted some output levels. I still need to rerecord that horrid solo at 4:47, rerecord some rhythm guitar samples (mainly in the coda) and... whatever issues will come up in the future. The link is in the OP and any kind of advice/comments are appreciated.

[quintin3265]

Thank you for the comments, I took them into account and baked a new revision of the remix. I replaced some of the samples, made the mix clearer and adjusted some output levels. I still need to rerecord that horrid solo at 4:47, rerecord some rhythm guitar samples (mainly in the coda) and... whatever issues will come up in the future. The link is in the OP and any kind of advice/comments are appreciated.

This remix has the potential to be a seminal work. The latest version is amazing, vastly improved compared to the previous take. Everything is crystal clear in this mix, and the guitar solo, contrary to what you might think, is not horrid.

There are some things you could do to get the remix up to the absolute top level. First, the guitar solo you mentioned isn't bad in that it was played poorly; instead, I think that the production of it is at issue. It sounds like you were playing guitar in a hallway far away from the mic. If you added post-production on that track, then it should be easy enough to fix by eliminating some reverb.

If you decide to replay it, then I think you need to find a place with fewer echoes. Even though that guitar solo is not in the "dancing mad" portion of the remix, listen to the Black Mages' version of Dancing Mad and pay attention to the guitar solo beginning at 10 or 11 minutes. The guitar is clear and rings out above everything else, rather than sounding like it is in a large hallway or auditorium.

The drums have received significant improvements. The volume on all the instruments seems right now, but at 5:05, you need different instrumentation on percussion. The melody is right, but the single drum is too weak. I think the mix would be better served if a sharper and slightly louder drumbeat were used there.

All in all, I look forward to listening to the next version. Please consider posting this remix to gameremixes.com for three reasons: first, because it is good; second, because I'd like to listen to the 24-bit source on my stereo system; and third, because we could track versions. It would have been easier to rate the improvements had the previous version been easily available.

[HeavenWraith]

So after a lengthy struggle with this piece I've finally managed to come up with something at least decent sounding. The instruments are finalized unless I will find something horrible when I listen to this yet another time with a clean ear. Though now comes the mastering part, and before I start ruining my mix, I'd like to hear some opinions on what would any/every you do if you had to make this specific mix louder, clearer and all that jazz.

Enough of my tootin', the mix is here: http://soundcloud.com/heavenwraith/upheaval-michaels-judgement

Yet again, thanks in advance for all the advice.

[quintin3265]

So after a lengthy struggle with this piece I've finally managed to come up with something at least decent sounding. The instruments are finalized unless I will find something horrible when I listen to this yet another time with a clean ear. Though now comes the mastering part, and before I start ruining my mix, I'd like to hear some opinions on what would any/every you do if you had to make this specific mix louder, clearer and all that jazz.

Enough of my tootin', the mix is here: http://soundcloud.com/heavenwraith/upheaval-michaels-judgement

Yet again, thanks in advance for all the advice.

This remix is so vastly improved over the original version that it's almost not the same piece. The first thing that struck me in this latest version is that the guitars are very clear, with none of the distortion that was present in the first versions. The guitar solo at 5 minutes is incredible. The piano also separates very well into each ear in the stereo recording, which is something you rarely hear in remixes.

A few things you should not change:

• The guitar solo at 5 minutes; it sounds great
  
• The piano and its stereo mix
  
• The arrangement is good almost in its entirety
  

Some things I think could still be improved upon:

• The drums at 5 minutes, which I previously criticized, have improved, but there is still one drum that still doesn't have enough oomph to it. It doesn't do the guitar justice. It's the one with the syncopated rhythm, and while that drum appears to be present in the rest of the mix, it doesn't sound right at that point. I'm wondering what it would sound like if you simply removed that drum for the duration of the solo.
  
• The Dancing Mad part of the remix is too loud, and the dynamic range is too low. Look at the waveform for yourself. At times, it grates on the ears. Metal is supposed to be loud, but perhaps there is some way to slightly reduce the range to bring out the different instruments in the mix.
  

Great work! Feel free to take or ignore my advice however you see fit.

[jnWake]

Sounding much better now!

This is just my opinion, but I feel that if you managed to get a guitar tone like

then this mix would be ridiculously awesome. Your distortion could be a bit more agressive.

[HeavenWraith]

I thank for everyone's cooperation and I present you what I think might be the very last revision of the remix, a release candidate, if you will. I've mastered it more like a metal track, making most of the channels heavily compressed (keeping the wavelength amplitude fluctuation very low), sorry for those who expected me to do otherwise. Without further ado, here is the track. If I find nothing wrong with it within a time of a week, I'll submit it.

http://soundcloud.com/heavenwraith/upheaval-michaels-judgement

[timaeus222]

You should try soft knee compression before you finalize it. It'll make a huge difference.

[HeavenWraith]

That's a really handy piece of advice. I will for sure, thanks.

[Rozovian]

Too much low bass. Can't say I like that trashy snare either. The whole thing sounds pushed too hard, and yet doesn't sound loud. get your dynamics under control. I can't really hear the cymbals hit, I only hear the rest of their sound. Looking at the soundcloud player, I see the whole this squashed. Just... no.

There's a weird echo to the piano, could be your reverb's early reflections or something. I like how the track flows into this and builds up from here. Your metal sound drum doesn't quite fit with the soft piano sound you've got. More dynamics to the piano and it might work, but I would just use different drums for the softer parts. i know that's cheating. The alternative is to soften your metal drums a bit, which might be a better option anyway.

And then we're back into squashy, overly bassy stuff without dynamics. The piano stuff here sounds weird, as if reversed or something. It's a cool effect, but it also sounds really mechanical. Could be the piano sound itself, could be fixed with humanization, idunno.

I hate having to do one of these lazy source checks, but I'm really not that familiar with FF6's soundtrack, and don't think I've even heard anything from TLR before. I can hear both tracks in the first half of the remix, but I'd need a lot more time (or a source breakdown) to figure out the rest. Someone more familiar with the tracks could probably pick stuff out a lot easier, but I'm not sure about the second half of the mix.

It's a pretty kickass track, but it needs a more dynamic mix. getting rid of the excess lows should put it in a much better state, it might be the only overall change you'd need to make for that.

ARRANGEMENT / INTERPRETATION

~ Too liberal - not enough connections to the source (too much original writing) - Can't say without a lot more listening to sources and mix.

PRODUCTION

- Overcompressed (pumping/no dynamics)

[timaeus222]

Looking at the soundcloud player, I see the whole this squashed. Just... no.

Just wanted to make an important point here, and I'm surprised you said that---

Soundcloud does not have an accurate waveform representation. One time I downloaded a track that didn't look overloaded, and it was practically all 0dB.

[Rozovian]

Just wanted to make an important point here, and I'm surprised you said that---

Soundcloud does not have an accurate waveform representation. One time I downloaded a track that didn't look overloaded, and it was practically all 0dB.

So it's worse than soundcloud makes it appear? That would only prove my point.

[timaeus222]

So it's worse than soundcloud makes it appear? That would only prove my point.

That's the weird part. Some songs that look too loud could actually be softer, and some that look too loud could actually be the same or louder. In this case it's softer. I actually ripped the audio directly and that's what I saw.

[HeavenWraith]

Ah, thank you for the review. Lowering the lower frequencies (especially of the rhythm guitar, which had a lot of them panned slightly to left, no idea how I missed that) made the whole mix brighter and easier on the ears.

You made me aware of this possible problem - whether the mix is too original. I'm not too sure myself honestly, since I have little experience with the judges' panel and their standards. I'd love someone with more involvement tell me whether it qualifies, so I'll make the source breakdown.

1:04 - 1:38 ________ 0:30 - 1:22 from Dancing Mad (slightly modified melody in the beginning)

1:38 - 1:47 ________ 0:00 - 0:13 from Nisus

1:48 - 1:58 ________ fusion of 0:14 - 0:27 from Nisus and 1:22 - 1:32 from Dancing Mad

2:18 - 2:38 ________ 1:09 - 1:36 from Nisus

4:29 - 4:48 ________ 0:55 - 1:08 from Nisus

6:21 - 6:36 ________ 0:30 - 0:54 from Dancing Mad (slightly modified)

The new version is here.

[Argle]

A couple of things really bother me. There's only one rhythm guitar take panned rightward. You gotta doubletrack it.

Guitar tone is pretty brittle sounding. Come to think of it, sounds like an amp without a cab.

Snare sounds pretty awful, to be honest. You need a new sound entirely.

Timing seems pretty loose in sections.

[Rozovian]

That's the weird part. Some songs that look too loud could actually be softer, and some that look too loud could actually be the same or louder. In this case it's softer. I actually ripped the audio directly and that's what I saw.

SC might filter something out, like subbass or high highs or something, then boost to fit. Idunno. Could also be something in the viewer itself that's weird. Thanks for pointing it out tho.

You made me aware of this possible problem - whether the mix is too original. I'm not too sure myself honestly, since I have little experience with the judges' panel and their standards. I'd love someone with more involvement tell me whether it qualifies, so I'll make the source breakdown.

1:04 - 1:38 ________ 0:30 - 1:22 from Dancing Mad (slightly modified melody in the beginning)

1:38 - 1:47 ________ 0:00 - 0:13 from Nisus

1:48 - 1:58 ________ fusion of 0:14 - 0:27 from Nisus and 1:22 - 1:32 from Dancing Mad

2:18 - 2:38 ________ 1:09 - 1:36 from Nisus

4:29 - 4:48 ________ 0:55 - 1:08 from Nisus

6:21 - 6:36 ________ 0:30 - 0:54 from Dancing Mad (slightly modified)

This looks like around 2 minutes out of 7, which is something like 30%. A rule of thumb is that at least 50% should be connected to source, so this doesn't look like a mix for this site. If the parts you didn't list source for are still based on those sources, like little parts of them, transposed and in different scales or modes, then it's possible your mix could get accepted. Otherwise, just put it on youtube or somewhere, ppl looking for mixes from TLR might find it.

Sorry I can't listen now, but I'm glad my comments helped.

[timaeus222]

Ah, thank you for the review. Lowering the lower frequencies (especially of the rhythm guitar, which had a lot of them panned slightly to left, no idea how I missed that) made the whole mix brighter and easier on the ears.

You made me aware of this possible problem - whether the mix is too original. I'm not too sure myself honestly, since I have little experience with the judges' panel and their standards. I'd love someone with more involvement tell me whether it qualifies, so I'll make the source breakdown.

1:04 - 1:38 ________ 0:30 - 1:22 from Dancing Mad (slightly modified melody in the beginning)

1:38 - 1:47 ________ 0:00 - 0:13 from Nisus

1:48 - 1:58 ________ fusion of 0:14 - 0:27 from Nisus and 1:22 - 1:32 from Dancing Mad

2:18 - 2:38 ________ 1:09 - 1:36 from Nisus

4:29 - 4:48 ________ 0:55 - 1:08 from Nisus

6:21 - 6:36 ________ 0:30 - 0:54 from Dancing Mad (slightly modified)

The new version is here.

I'm gonna echo what Rozo said, but also suggest that you put more source in between 2:38 and 4:29, and between 4:48 and 6:21. Those are pretty large gaps. As of right now you have 1:47 source in a 6:36 song. 27% source, so definitely add more, or find ways you can validly say you used the source.