JamesXIIC Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Okay I'll make this simple. Want to buy my first hardware synth. 3 possible candidates. - KORG microKORG - Alesis Micron - Roland Juno-106 (second hand) All are roughly the same price. I want a synth that is easy to program and sounds rich and dynamic. I'm going for very retro 80's sounds here. What one would you recommend? I have actually played a microKORG at my local music shop and was pretty impressed by its sound and ease of use, but they don't have anything else in that's cheap, or any second hand alternatives. The pickings are slim here in Scotland so there aren't many 2nd hand synths floating about. I know it's all down to opinion but if the good members of OCR could give me some guidence it would be gladly appriciated. Also a lot of people say the Micron can do everything the microKORG can do and better. Do any of you believe this is the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argle Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Also a lot of people say the Micron can do everything the microKORG can do and better. Do any of you believe this is the case? I believe it. Alesis generally excels at kick-assery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Consider the new Roland SH-201. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesXIIC Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Well, I don't think there is a place in whole of Scotland that will let me demo an Alesis so I'll just have to buy it in good faith if I decide to go down that path. As for the Roland SH-201, I watched a video on Roland's site. Looks very good I must say but I doubt we'll be getting it anytime soon over here. Also $500-600 is pushing my budget and whilst it has direct feed ins for external audio so does both the KORG and the Alesis. I don't think I can see myself using that feature much and am more interested in the vocoders supplied with the Alesis and KORG, but for that price it does look very impressive....and sexy. Still, i'm going to the seller of the Juno-106's house to check it out. Is £240 for a Juno-106 a little steep? That's 425$ for you Americans. I think that's a little bit expensive sounding but I'm a synth newb so what would I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelebes Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I have an Alesis Ion. I absolutely love it, however my friend who has the Micron will only use it for making basslines. As for 80's sounds, get a DX. I kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Actually Xelebes has a point. If you want the 80s sound... you can still get synths from the 80s. Usually for very, very cheap, unless it's one of the really popular ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_nihilist Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 You might want to hunt down an ESQ-1. It's pretty damn easy to program, has a very nice sound, and you can probably find one for cheap if you look. Also might wanna try hunting down an Akai AX-60, which is very similar to a Juno 106, though the filter has alot more balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 You might want to hunt down an ESQ-1. I would have said that! ...because I own one Yes, they are cool, and the vocal synthesis is neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Whaddya know. I'm seriously considering buying an Alesis Micron, myself. I went to the store and played with one for who knows how long. I just kind of sat there and banged away at the keys and turned the knobs until the salesperson came back to check on me. I have no idea how much time I spent there. Unfortunately, the price in the store is more expensive than the price I can get by ordering online from the US and having it shipped to me (I live in Canada and am considering ordering from Novamusik, which I hear hasn't screwed people living in Canada based on reports from my friends). In total, it'll cost me about $600 CAD (taxes & shipping in). The only reason I'm hedging on it is because I'm really not sure if I can afford to be spending $600 on *anything* that has no immediate utilitarian use at the moment. There was a Novation K-Station in Ottawa (used) for sale that I wish I had looked at before flying out west. It was selling for $525 + tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Okay I'll make this simple.Want to buy my first hardware synth. 3 possible candidates. - KORG microKORG - Alesis Micron - Roland Juno-106 (second hand) Maybe. Maybe. No. All are roughly the same price. I want a synth that is easy to program and sounds rich and dynamic. I'm going for very retro 80's sounds here. What one would you recommend? A Roland JX3P over the 106. A Roland JX8P because it's even more 80's than the 106 or the 3P. You will have to sacrifice ease of programming though. I have actually played a microKORG at my local music shop and was pretty impressed by its sound and ease of use, but they don't have anything else in that's cheap, or any second hand alternatives. The pickings are slim here in Scotland so there aren't many 2nd hand synths floating about. MS2000 via ebay.co.uk. It's the MicroKorg but in a bigger package. Also a lot of people say the Micron can do everything the microKORG can do and better. Do any of you believe this is the case? Yes and no. The MicroKorg has a vocoder you can use directly. It's more accessible. You can hook up the mike, switch immediately to vocoder presets, and you can do a trick called Formant Freeze (say "UAAAH" and you can play all the "UAAAH"s you want on the keyboard - almost like a sampler. The Micron would like you first to pick the vocoder preset and then it wants you to hook up a decent microphone. It may seem not that much of a difference, but it is . The Micron's vocoder is better though. The MicroKorg has so-called DWGS waves - digital, sampled waveforms instead of the "calculated" waveforms. The Micron does not have these. However, the Micron does have a third oscillator and tons of modulation possibilities the MicroKorg lacks, so programming can make up for these. The Micron has more voices. This makes playing chords and bass easier - in fact, the idea behind the Micron is that you use split and layered voices to combine rhythm, bass, chords and lead at once. The MicroKorg is more of a solo synth - one part, and then use multitracking for the next. Then there's the character of the sound. Korg always was a master in making "polished" sounds. The Micron does not have this advantage and a lot of people judge a synth by its presets. However, the MK is a first-generation VA, which means that the Micron is able to sound "more analog". It depends if this actually counts for you. It could be that the Korg is initially really nice but at the end not enough rewarding, while the Micron has the opposite . Why do I advise against the 106? I've owned every Juno. The JX8P is nicer and the 106 is hyped and not all that spectacular. Of all the Junos the 60 is the best, but it's not MIDI and rather bulky. Also, 240 quid is indeed steep (thanks to the hype). The ESQ is a really good suggestion because the thing is powerful and does the wavetable stuff, too. It lacks onboard effects though. It's got a big display and it's userfriendly. An SQ-80 is the same but better. Check out http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/ds_sq80.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesXIIC Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Right, I've decided the Juno is probably not a good idea from what you guys are saying. It's a decent synth but seems too expensive and I couldn't care less about having a "well known" synth. I looked at the ESQ-1 and its big brother (SQ-80) and it looks VERY nice indeed. I like how it has sampled waveforms on it so you can get some kick ass piano and string sounds. Also aftertouch on a late 80's synth? Always a bonus! Only problem is finding one here. No luck on either eBay or anywhere else (AdTrader included). I might just settle for a dispute between the microKORG and the Micron because I would love to spend less and get an 80's or early 90's classic but it's just not for happening. Looked up all those synths and no luck on 2nd hand sources at all. Oh and as for the MS2000/B, I went to the shop and was not impressed. Yeah it looks cool and retro but it sounds slightly worse than the microKORG (the sound chips were improved over the years), costs double, is bulky, much less forgiving to program (okay there are knobs that control almost everything but the way they are laid out is totally stupid). Plus no vocoder and DWGS or on-board delay. I don't mind the microKORG's approach to programming. Once you get your head around it that is. As for the Micron I downloaded the manual and was not impressed in the slightest. I'm sure it's much more forgiving when you sit down and try it yourself though. So unless any of you guys can give me a link or tips on where to get a good 2nd hand synth like the ESQ-1 in the UK, I'll be better off getting a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Oh and as for the MS2000/B, I went to the shop and was not impressed. Yeah it looks cool and retro but it sounds slightly worse than the microKORG (the sound chips were improved over the years), costs double, is bulky, much less forgiving to program (okay there are knobs that control almost everything but the way they are laid out is totally stupid). Well, the "B" is the mkII, new presets, mic input on top, that's pretty much it. Plus no vocoder and DWGS or on-board delay. Eh, yes it has those. As I said, the MicroKorg was derived from the original MS2000; it's got everything the MS2000 has minus the stepsequencer. As for the Micron I downloaded the manual and was not impressed in the slightest. That's because it's a very sparse "look wut we got here" manual . So unless any of you guys can give me a link or tips on where to get a good 2nd hand synth like the ESQ-1 in the UK, I'll be better off getting a new one. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ENSONIQ-ESQ1_W0QQitemZ7385264072QQcategoryZ20080QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem There you go . Also, check out the Sound On Sound classified ads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesXIIC Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Ahhh.....Yoozer, hot damn! That certainly has got me very interested! Starting at £100 though and it has 4 days left with 77 views....I'd be willing to maybe pay up to £180 for it me thinks. I searched for "synths" on eBay and "ESQ-1" which is why I probably didn't find it. The only thing I can say is I hope my Christmas tips from work will cover it. That and too bad it's not the SQ-80... EDIT: Checked SoundonSounds ads and found.... - £175 for an Alesis Micron - £250 for an Alesis ION - £160 for a KORG microKORG - £120 for an Ensoniq ESQ-1 Now that's what I'm talking about....some good second hand prices. Is the extra £125 really worth paying for an ION over a Mircon? Is it MUCH easier to program or anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 The Ion has many more knobs and a bigger screen, and is also much larger. I haven't played around with an Ion much, since I wasn't planning to buy it, but it should be easier to coax some good sounds out of it compared to the single multi-function button on the Micron. The Ion is definitely more powerful than the Micron and relies a little more on traditional synthesis techniques, but the Micron has a few more features (pattern sequencer and an arpeggiator) and is much smaller (awesome for gigging and live use). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 EDIT: Checked SoundonSounds ads and found.... - £175 for an Alesis Micron - £250 for an Alesis ION - £160 for a KORG microKORG - £120 for an Ensoniq ESQ-1 Now that's what I'm talking about....some good second hand prices. Is the extra £125 really worth paying for an ION over a Micron? Is it MUCH easier to program or anything? The engines of both are the same. But, yes, I think the Ion is really worth it. Yes, you'll miss out on the reverb and delay effects but you get a MIDI controller with high-res endless rotaries (the knobs on the Ion and Micron don't have a maximum or minimum which means the values never "jump"). The Micron's more fit for stage use where a boatload of controllers is not that necessary but those you need for expression are there. Come to think of it, you could also try to find an AN1x for that money. Mine just returned yesterday. Joy! . See, thing is; Britain's big. Germany's big. Moving stuff from A to B as long as it's in the UK costs the same (right?). This means a second-hand market with fierce competition, which puts prices at more realistic levels compared to shops who essentially have a monopoly on second-hand synthesizers in your vicinity. The Netherlands aren't that big so a lot of people here do their shopping in Germany; for both new and eBay stuff. Also, some search engines can't handle stuff like ESQ1 and ESQ-1; try both for maximum effect . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 See, thing is; Britain's big. Germany's big. Moving stuff from A to B as long as it's in the UK costs the same (right?). This means a second-hand market with fierce competition, which puts prices at more realistic levels compared to shops who essentially have a monopoly on second-hand synthesizers in your vicinity. The Netherlands aren't that big so a lot of people here do their shopping in Germany; for both new and eBay stuff. Shopping in Canada for synths is retarded. All of the prices are set from when the dollar was really, really low compared to the US dollar, so if you go to a store, they charge $625 Canadian for the Micron. If you buy one online for $399 US, then it comes out to $465... but once you do, you end up having to pay $60US for shipping. I don't understand why the Canadian market for gear is so pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesXIIC Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 Okay, I finally managed to locate a shop in Scotland that stocks the ION. Had to get a train from Edinburgh (the capital) to Glasgow (the biggest city in Scotland) just to have a little go on one but boy was I impressed! The sound was really powerful and meaty - even the tiny little speakers in the store were cranking out mind-shattering basses. The pads were lush and warm and the effects were interesting and very synthetic sounding. The filters seem really alive and the layout of the keyboard is dead friendly. I like it, I like it! So I started programming a few patches from scratch but I ran into problems locating the LFO destinations. The guy came over, pointed at the tiny "mod matrix" button and all was good. Source --> Destination. Couldn't be easier. Anyways, there's a guy down south selling one for £275 so we are talking things through and hopefully I'll be a proud owner of some hardy, American synth relatively soon. Good thing American-made synths fare better than their lackluster cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_nihilist Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 One thing to note about the ion is that it can take some EQing to sit well in a track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelebes Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 See, thing is; Britain's big. Germany's big. Moving stuff from A to B as long as it's in the UK costs the same (right?). This means a second-hand market with fierce competition, which puts prices at more realistic levels compared to shops who essentially have a monopoly on second-hand synthesizers in your vicinity. The Netherlands aren't that big so a lot of people here do their shopping in Germany; for both new and eBay stuff. Shopping in Canada for synths is retarded. All of the prices are set from when the dollar was really, really low compared to the US dollar, so if you go to a store, they charge $625 Canadian for the Micron. If you buy one online for $399 US, then it comes out to $465... but once you do, you end up having to pay $60US for shipping. I don't understand why the Canadian market for gear is so pathetic. I assume quite a bit of their stock has been there for a few months and prices don't go down much until there is talk of something that will be the new flagship product. Anyways, with this time difference, they may have imported the product when the dollar was not doing so well or that the distributors down south are not being fare. Actually, I think it is worth some investigation here. Our dollar is up but we can't import anything at the proper price conversions. Might be the case of distributors milking us. Either the distributors or the stores doing the selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Actually, I think it is worth some investigation here. Our dollar is up but we can't import anything at the proper price conversions. Might be the case of distributors milking us. Either the distributors or the stores doing the selling. Where would I start to do this kind of "investigation"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelebes Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Look for the chain of getting goods here. Look up logistics companies and distributors for Roland, Yamaha, Alesis, Mackie and other products related to music. Internet searches and taking a look at certain things. Compare and make observations, I presume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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