Rexy Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 I know this may be an odd question, but I'm hoping in one of my incoming tracks to manipulate the drums so that they sound really gritty and dark sounding, but I don't want to overdo it and be shrugged off as a noob when I do that () so I thought I'd come here for help. All I want to know is what kind of effects I should put on the drum kit being used, in what order and if possible in what quantities. If it helps, this is what they currently sound like. (Default demos for the win.) Thanks for the help in advance Quote
zircon Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 As always, this kind of question is nearly impossible to answer without reference MP3s of the effect you're going for. Quote
OverCoat Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 typically "dark" means it sounds muffled and the highs are absent or mostly absent, so just run it through a simple filter. Quote
Rexy Posted March 4, 2006 Author Posted March 4, 2006 It would help if you mention which one Distortion? Flange? Delay? Nonetheless, what I'm thinking specifically tone-wise is late 80s-early 90s dance riffs, with artists I'm looking at here including the Prodigy, the Crystal Method and the Chemical Brothers. I could even point at Khalan's "DevilLab Acid" for the kind of mood to look for, but that's five years old and I don't even know if the effect remains now. Quote
sgx Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 I'd go with some combination of really heavy compression, distortion, lowpass filter, and maybe reverb (in the chain actually BEFORE the compressor...makes a neat sound). That's what I think of when I think 'dark'. Quote
zircon Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 It would help if you mention which one Distortion? Flange? Delay?Nonetheless, what I'm thinking specifically tone-wise is late 80s-early 90s dance riffs, with artists I'm looking at here including the Prodigy, the Crystal Method and the Chemical Brothers. I could even point at Khalan's "DevilLab Acid" for the kind of mood to look for, but that's five years old and I don't even know if the effect remains now. I have pretty much every CD from all three artists you listed, but I wouldn't characterize their drums as "dark" at all. Can you please provide an MP3 example with a specific time of the exact effect you're referring to? I guarantee I can help you if you can do that. Quote
Jens Wulvik Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 To get this dark sound, you have to adjust down the cutoff filter. When I do this I use a wah-wah VST, like on this rearrangement of Maroon 5's This Love: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=39791 Quote
Rexy Posted March 4, 2006 Author Posted March 4, 2006 It took a lot of browsing, but this 14-second clip has the tone I'm looking for, although not quite as compressed as crazy as shown in the explosion further on. Quote
zircon Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 These are really stupid drums, in my opinion, and I have no idea why you would want to make something like them (they're also much different from typical TCM, Prodigy, or TCB material). However, that being said; It's a Roland TR-909 kick and what sounds like an 808 or 909 handclap or similar electronic snare/claps. They are both being distorted heavily with standard waveshaping distortion, as well as samplerate and bitrate degradation (I estimate somewhere around 8-12 bits and 22khz). Both delay (low feedback) and reverb (metallic) are being applied. As the clip progresses, the samples are pitched down further and additional bit degradation is applied. At :09 they are pitched much higher. Finally, heavy compression (low threshold, high gain, high ratio) is on the whole thing. It is conceivable that the distortion and bit reduction were applied on the entire loop before the compression, rather than to the individual samples. I'm not sure, but the effect is similar. Quote
GrayLightning Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 Well covered by zircon, so I have nothing to add. Man, talk about overcompression on these things though. The beginning parts do sound very degraded, lofi and messy, which means if it were on the panel, larry would YES it cause it supposedly sounds classic. Quote
Xelebes Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 Amplifier simulator distortion for the kicks and maybe the snares. Another, less harsh amp simulator distorting the hi hats and the percussion. Put through a compressor. Some reverb before the compression might not hurt. Quote
zircon Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 This isn't amp simulation, it's basic distortion.. and you can hear the effects of the bit reduction in the decay of the reverb in between the drum hits (the "grainy" quality). Quote
Xelebes Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 The bit reducers and digital distortions are optional, however they don't get that warm fuzz to the beats that you might want. Quote
zircon Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 Well.. two things; 1. If we're analyzing THIS particular MP3 example, then yes, simple distortion and bit reduction was used. It's very clear to me. 2. Though it's difficult (if not impossible) to come up with an objective definition of "dark drums", I don't think I would characterize warm fuzz as being part of that. Quote
Xelebes Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 Well, I'm saying that we are not wholly aiming for cold-as-possible drums, but rather just simply dark. Warmth can be applied, especially when dealing with large booming drums (coldness makes them song repugnant.) And no, I wasn't refering to the specific mp3. Quote
suzumebachi Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 when rexy was asking for dark drums i didn't think she was asking for this lame shit which is really, really, quite lame. while i understand that imitation is the first step to synthesis and further innovation, why the hell would you want to base your sound on this flaming pile of dung? i'm disappointed to say the least. Quote
the_nihilist Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 when rexy was asking for dark drums i didn't think she was asking for this lame shit which is really, really, quite lame. while i understand that imitation is the first step to synthesis and further innovation, why the hell would you want to base your sound on this flaming pile of dung? i'm disappointed to say the least. There's lots of interesting stuff based on these kinds of drum sounds. Antigen Shift, Muslimgauze, Gridlock, Detritus, Stendeck... It's a style that works really well when contrasted against ambient sounding pads, or ethnic instrumentation. EDIT: some clips of a couple of the above-mentioned artists. http://www.5-25.com/gridlock/playlists/formless/return.m3u http://www.adnoiseam.net/label/catalog/51/sounds/detritus-dead_daffodils-excerpt.mp3 http://www.adnoiseam.net/label/catalog/26/sounds/detritus-atone-excerpt.mp3 Quote
zircon Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 I guess we'll just have to disagree there. I find this kind of drum style to be stupid, uncreative, and dull. I was hoping Rexy would cite something like "Roll It Up", "PHD", "Ten Miles Back", "Poison", or "Narayan". Quote
Rexy Posted March 5, 2006 Author Posted March 5, 2006 It's not necessarily the samples used in the clip (a reason why I would never work with 808 kits), but it's more like the kind of effect work that's being driven across. I will consider experimenting with what's been said in the thread, but even here I understand there's some controversy on the sample I've put up with. That said, if anyone knows any places to find reference drum samples, I should be able to find a better explanation for my intensions. And if anyone must know, that clip was done by Bentley Rhythm Ace. I'm expecting more missiles being hurled towards me after what I towed back, but that's the problem when the usual web browsing won't give me much else Quote
zircon Posted March 5, 2006 Posted March 5, 2006 That said, if anyone knows any places to find reference drum samples, I should be able to find a better explanation for my intensions. For the third time, the best way to communicate an effect you're going for is to simply load up a song that has the effect you're going for, edit out the section you want to show off, and upload that clip. It's really VERY VERY simple. For example.. Downtempo, "phat" acoustic/electronic drum sequencing; http://soundtempest.net/example1.mp3 (The Crystal Method - Over the Line) Electronic drums w/ pwm/sync bassline.. very 'techy' sound; http://soundtempest.net/example2.mp3 (The Crystal Method - High and Low) Huge synth bass with phat electronic and acoustic drums; http://zirconstudios.com/example3.mp3 (The Crystal Method - PHD) "Chemical" type breakbeat, with very tight processed acoustic drums; http://zirconstudios.com/example5.mp3 (The Crystal Method - Comin' Back) Massive, hugely saturated and compressed drums.. very 'in your face'; http://zirconstudios.com/example6.mp3 (The Crystal Method - Name of the Game) Quote
Patrick Burns Posted March 6, 2006 Posted March 6, 2006 Massive, hugely saturated and compressed drums.. very 'in your face'; http://zirconstudios.com/example6.mp3 (The Crystal Method - Name of the Game) Aww, man... that played during the original Splinter Cell credits. It's takin' me back. [/randomness] Quote
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