djpretzel Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) ReMixer & real name: Eino Keskitaloe-mail: forum id: 20708 ReMixer name: Jorito Real name: Jorrith Schaap e-mail: forum id: 3917 Names of games arranged: Shovel Knight Name of Arrangement: Diskotanssi der Doden Names of individual songs arranged: La Danse Macabre, A Thousand Leagues Below La Danse Macabre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDGaqUskBRM A Thousand Leagues Below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynLNyLH8MbY MP3: FLAC: Submission notes: Eino: This was our first round tune for the Shovel Knight compo of 2014 in the team side of the competition. Going against timaeus222 (minus drop-out teammate) and his Specter Knight, we went for a disco approach complete with lyrics. We started the compo with the intention of being a Renoise team and using only sample-based tracker instruments for lightweight project file sharing, but Jorito found abandoning his VSTi arsenal a bit painful. We (somewhat clumsily, but ultimately effectively) arranged the tune with chip sounds on Renoise, after which Jorito worked out the proper sounds and additional arrangement in Logic. I did some "disco of the dead" -style lyrics. Inspiration from Thriller should be quite obvious, but perhaps you can also spot the Rocky Horror Show reference. I sent an awful take of the vocals to Jorito, who vocoded them into perfection, and added a fun nod to Bee Gees while he was at it. Once again I have to admire & thank Jorrith for his inspiring work ethos, we had a remarkable drive & put in a lot of hours to make a satisfying, complete competition entry. Further work went into this version, again with the help of Andy Booth from http://www.cheaponlinemixingmastering.co.uk/ Jorito: This was actually my first collab from scratch for a game with a soundtrack I didn't know and started in a DAW I didn't use in a while. Combined with the tight compo deadlines it made for lots of good energy and drive and an entertaining ride. Since I didn't know the soundtrack that well, Eino took the lead. From the start he already imagined La Danse Macabre it as a disco track, whereas I heard a more baroque, Castlevania Symphony Of The Night-esque influence in A Thousand Leagues Below. Needless to say that we went with the disco vibes, because you can never have enough of teh cheeze, but I did manage to squeeze in a few bits of harpsichord and organ here and there Eino did a lot of work on the track and arrangement, foregoing sleep at points in creative rushes. I was always pleasantly surprised by the new updates that appeared. I also added a few parts and leads here and there but I mostly focused on instrumentation and getting the right vibe (which is tricky if your working version is all chiptune!). Anyways, a fun track to work on with a good final result and as always it's a joy to work with Eino. Source breakdown: Sources are La Danse Macabre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDGaqUskBRM A Thousand Leagues Below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynLNyLH8MbY LDM is transposed a whole tone down to fit the keys together. The main idea was to use LDM to form the meat of the song structure, and use ATLB as background writing material. It's been a while and I don't think we made proper notes of the source usage during arranging, so I might be missing some less obvious bits of source usage. Intro 0:00-0:30 0:00-0:10 is original, if I recall correctly. The organ riff 0:10-0:30 is from ALTB at 0:55-1:18. Verse 1 0:30-0:46 Melody from LDM verse 0:09-0:25. Chord progression in the later half loosely follows LDM. The later half of the melody is sung an octave lower. Chorus 1 0:46-1:03 Melody from LDM chorus 0:26-0:43. Chords (apart from the last one) from A Thousand Leagues Below 0:36-0:45. Harpsichord arpeggio from ATLB 0:19-0:36. Verse 2 1:03-1:20 As in verse 1, with additional countermelody modified from ATLB at 0:19-0:36. Chorus 2 1:20-1:36 The same as Chorus 2, except the harpsichord arpeggio is now from ATLB 0:36-0:55. Bridge & solo 1:36-2:43 The melody and chord progression from LDM 1:18-1:51. 1:34-1:51 repeated twice. 2:27-2:43 uses the organ riff from intro to host the tail end of the solo (ATLB 0:55-1:14). Extended 12" mix drum break & disco stuff 2:44-4:07 Not overtly source-y jamming up to 3:17. The bass fills are loosely source-based (for example 2:50-2:52 & 2:58-3:00 bass was at least at some point based on the bass fill from ATLB at 0:34-0:35) but I wouldn't bother say stopwatching this part. Oh, the harpsichord at 3:02-3:04, 3:06-3:09 3:10-3:12, 3:14-3:16 is from ATLB 0:21-0:24/0:26-0:28/0:31-0:33. 3:17-3:33 is of course the intro (0:00-0:19) from ATLB. The last "hear the beat, do what you're told" uses the melody of that phrase from the chorus of LDM. 3:33-3:50 is ATLB 0:36-0:55, with bits of the vocal melody from LDM. 3:50-4:07 neatly continues with the intro riff, from ATLB 0:55-1:14. Verse 1 repeat 4:07-4:24 With the countermelody from ATLB 0:19-0:36 again. Chorus 3 & outro 4:24-4:54 Sticking to a single bass note for a while here, always works well. Same usage as the previous choruses, though I guess the final 4:38-4:54 is not that source-based. Lyrics: hear the drum beating through the night calling everyone to arrive here they crawl out from underground emptiness in their eyes and you listen to the puppet master hear the beat! do what you're told! and the rhythm is too much to keep under control listen to the puppet master hear the beat! do what you're told! they all follow emptiness in their eyes don't you think that you have a chance their corrupted bodies advance with strange passion they do a dance emptiness in their eyes and you listen to the puppet master.. you're invited too it looks so cool and you'd like to just go home but there's no time so you put up some resistance the only one to keep the distance that's the price you pay for staying alive ha ha ha ha staying alive, staying alive ha ha ha ha staying alive ha ha ha ha staying alive, staying alive ha ha ha ha staying alive hear the beat hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told hear the beat, do what you're told you're invited too, do what you're told do what you're told do what you're told don't you think that you have a chance.. and you listen to the puppet master.. their eyes their eyes their eyes their eyes their eyes their eyes their eyes the-e-e-eir eyes Edited March 7, 2016 by Liontamer closed decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_NutS Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 It's pretty hard to vote on this one. I love this stuff, I breathe 80s electronica. Sadly as much as I like this one there are several issues that hold it back from posting as it is now. First, my main problem are the vocoded vocals. They are indecipherable and as much as I try I can't tell what they are saying for most of the duration of the song. Now, in my own songs I use vocoded vocals that are processed in a way that people can't tell what's being said, but this is used more as a rhythmic element, as another type of synth, that accentuates the arrangement. When you have lead vocals, that go throughout the mix, it's better to tilt in favor of a more human vocalization. I like the tones of the vocoder and you guys did try to keep it interesting by not using a static tone, but in my opinion it would be better to either have less carrier signal in your vocals, or work on it so they are clearer. I think that you could still use the carrier-heavy versions, but more sparrringly. Second, I think the vocoded vocals don't quite sit well in the mix. I think the beat could hit slightly harder. These two aren't dealbreakers but something that could be worked on. When it comes to the arrangement it's hit and miss. The first half is awesome, groovy, interpretative but true to the spirit of this era. But towards the end, it gets lost, with sections that feel longer than they should, and also weird entonations. For example, 3:16 - 4:06 feels very innecessary. There are cool melodies in there, but this section breaks the flow of the track and all the awesome groove just grinds to a halt. In my opinion, the culprit here is the compo limitations under which this track was created. I've always pointed out in these kind of compos, that it's better to do a great remix than a remix that abides by the rules, specially if you plan to submit it to OCR. Sometimes trying to marry two sources together doesn't quite work, and here you can hear the parts where it doesn't very clearly. You've got a good idea here, but I suggest reworking the vocals so the vocoded parts are a highlight and not commonplace across the mix, and cutting out the sections that don't quite blend together with the groove you're going for. If you need to focus 90% of the track in just one of the themes so it feels right, then do so, as the compo rules don't apply anymore. I love this idea, specially the first half is groovy as hell, but I can't pass it with the current issues. Jorito, if you need more/detailed pointers feel free to contact me. NO(Please Resubmit) Eino Keskitalo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAvenger Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Mr. Nuts has a lot of good points here. I definitely agree that if I didn't have the lyrics in front of me I would never be able to make out what is being said. The vocoding sounds like a good fit for the disco style, but it definitely needs to be more recognizable when it is your lead. I feel like the balance between the parts isn't quite right. The bass feels a little weak, and the soundstage sounds a little empty as a result. Some of the synths feel a bit blocky and thin as well, like at 1:09 and 1:38. Some layering might help out there. I do also agree that the song does get a bit stretched out, though I didn't see that being as much of an issue. Mostly the groove is holding its own, though a little trim here and there might help keep things moving a little better. I think it's on the right track, and the concept is good, but reworking the vocals will take some effort. I'd definitely like to hear this again, and more collars from you guys in the future! No (resubmit) Eino Keskitalo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMonz Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 There's lot to love in here. The funky backing guitar, the sweet, sweet organs (nice usage of the rotor speed changes), the cool E. Pianos. Some nice synth lead action as well. Although, I also agree that the vocoder is a pretty big problem. Maybe I'm biased because I'm used to hearing stuff like Daft Punk in which the words are (mostly) easily distinguishable, but I do recommend trying to clear it up. I also think that the structure of the arrangement started feeling aimless after a while, and I suggest taking the time to rethink the value of each section of the arrangement to try and rework the structure to keep things more interesting throughout. I think this is very close, so I'm really hoping you'll send in a reworked version! NO (resubmit) Eino Keskitalo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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