Good DAW that can take advantage of modern computers?

[Kanthos]

1 hour ago, YoungProdigy said:

It's like I said. It is what is man. It works for you but not for me. It's whatever.

 

That's actually not how software and computers work. EVER. If something doesn't work, there is ALWAYS a reason, 100% of the time, whether it's bad configuration, a hardware problem, a software problem, or a user problem. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for stuff to randomly 'stop working' with no cause. Physics, computer hardware, software, they simply do not and CAN NOT work that way. I'm a few months away from the 10-year mark as a full-time software developer, and have had interactions with customers in every position I've had, and you're exhibiting the behaviours of the most difficult customers I've had to deal with. The whole "It doesn't work and I want to have others listen to me whine about it" approach is a good way to annoy people and a terrible way to solve problems.

You've been given a lot of suggestions in this thread and have provided little to no indication that you've even considered any of them, let alone tried them out. If you want help from intelligent people, you need to ask intelligent questions and you need to follow through on what they say, otherwise you're wasting everyone's time.

If you're serious about finding a solution to your problem, please go through this thread again, top to bottom. The answer is probably in here already, or in the video that someone linked. Watch that video, and do EVERYTHING it says. Chances are VERY GOOD that it will solve your problem. If you have questions or don't understand things, google it or ask specific followup questions. There's more than enough knowledge in this thread to help you get the performance you should out of your setup.

The one thing I can pretty much guarantee is that switching DAWs is going to do very little for you besides be a good way for you to throw away money. Your performance issues are from your configuration in some way, NOT simply from the fact that you use FL Studio. (If you don't want to believe the ton of evidence in this thread, then don't, but that attitude is one I would call stupid, given by someone who doesn't deserve help). By all means spend money on Cubase. A new program isn't going to solve your defeatist attitude, and it isn't going to fix any issues with how your system is configured. It may have better multi-processor options turned on by default, but no DAW is going to get rid of all configuration issues forever. What happens when you try to get a larger Kontakt sample library? Or add new plugins? Or upgrade your hardware?

You don't seem like much of a reader, but on the off-chance that you actually care about getting better, you should read this. David Sirlin is a game designer with a lot of titles under his belt. While the eBook (available in full for free on his website) uses examples from Street Fighter and other fighting games, his ideas apply to other games and to other parts of life, especially the stuff about being serious about wanting to win, not having a defeatist attitude (what he calls a 'scrub'), and so on.

 

I hope you listen to the advice you've gotten in this thread, about your software setup and about your attitude. Maybe you'll make some changes to both and accomplish some cool things! But I agree with Flexstyle; don't come here, or anywhere, and waste people's time asking for advice and ignoring it.

[Nabeel Ansari]

8 hours ago, YoungProdigy said:

you're wasting your time replying.

You can say that again. Side note: don't call yourself a "grown man". Saying "grown men don't make subtle jabs at each other" demonstrates you've actually never been in the real world and have never hung out with "grown men".

Again, when you're ready to make coherent sense and try to learn something from people who have extraordinarily more experience and skills than you (and actually understand how computers work), then we'll still be here.

Until then, don't start threads and then act like a jackass to people who take time out of their busy days to help you understand a pittance of what you're talking about.

P.S. Stop using Sampletank 3. Eliminating your system being at fault (for the incredibly idiotic reasons you've put forth), Sampletank is the only possible culprit left.

[Flexstyle]

1 hour ago, Neblix said:

Eliminating your system being at fault ..., Sampletank is the only possible culprit left.

If it helps, I have an issue that's plagued me for a while, which slipped my mind until just now. Whenever I use more than one Steven Slate plugin in an FL project, it does spike and make FL behave similar to what you're describing. I solve this issue by not using more than one Steven Slate plugin in each FL project, and forgive it for now since they're (meaning Steven Slate) using a beta Windows client to make 'em work on PC. I'm just waiting for an update is all. Could be something similar with Sampletank or another plugin in your lineup, though--that's not out of the question.

[Garpocalypse]

I don't use FL but just to offer a possible solution to the problems YP is having is there a quick and easy way to bounce the audio from each VST?  I've been using a 4gb machine and also get the stutters and skips when i use a large sample library. The way I get around this is by sticking to running two instances of PLAY at a time then using Sonar's freeze synth function to quickly (sorta) bounce it to a wav that gets deleted when I need to reload the synth to work on it. The  trade off is that even though it takes an ungodly amount of time to go back and fix minor details in the midi, I am able to load a ton of synths on a relatively low ram machine. 

[timaeus222]

@YoungProdigy

Aside from the subtle (and not so subtle) "jabs" at you (which, keep in mind, are essentially a bit of tough love and character building), there has actually been very useful advice given here that you can easily try (or check out) without too much effort I would think.

• Kat ~ Adjusting the buffer length (seeing as you apparently are already using the ASIO driver):

Quote

I would mess around with FL Studio before jumping the gun and switching DAWs though. [...] Try upping your buffer length and maybe using ASIO drivers and see if that helps. I'd hold off on switching until you're absolutely sure, as learning the ins and outs of a new DAW can really mess with the creative process.

• Flexstyle, Neblix ~ Check your multi-threaded processing settings. See Flexstyle's images: [1] [2] and see Neblix's screenshot of multi-threaded processing working in FL: [3]
• Neblix ~ Consider spending 30 minutes learning the differences between real-time vs. CPU performance:

Quote

Real-time computer performance is dependent on how fast your devices in the computer communicate with each other. You have a good processor, and 8GB RAM is plenty, so it is likely that if with max ASIO buffer you[r] audio [drops out], something is deficient in your computer.

• Flexstyle ~ Try another very large sample library if possible, or load a bunch of other VSTs until you break past 1 GB and see if you still get those popping issues without using Sampletank.

Quote

Whenever I use more than one Steven Slate plugin in an FL project, it does spike and make FL behave similar to what you're describing. I solve this issue by not using more than one Steven Slate plugin in each FL project, and forgive it for now since they're (meaning Steven Slate) using a beta Windows client to make 'em work on PC. I'm just waiting for an update is all. Could be something similar with Sampletank or another plugin in your lineup, though--that's not out of the question.

 

[Nabeel Ansari]

33 minutes ago, timaeus222 said:

Aside from the subtle (and not so subtle) "jabs" at you (which, keep in mind, are essentially a bit of tough love and character building), there has actually been very useful advice given here that you can easily try (or check out) without too much effort I would think.

Why fix your problem when you can throw money at it instead?

[AngelCityOutlaw]

4 hours ago, Neblix said:

Why fix your problem when you can throw money at it instead?

It's the American way

[YoungProdigy]

Anyway guys; I did some research and narrowed it down to DPC latency. Whenever the CPU spikes; the latency goes up. So I just have to fix or delete whatever program is causing excessive latency. Strangely; if I restart my computer, the 100% CPU Spikes seem to go away and FL Studio becomes bearable to use again.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

 

Well, the good news is you saved yourself money.

[Nabeel Ansari]

"It's not my computer I swear"

[YoungProdigy]

I tried out Cubase and I think I'll be switching to that eventually. It doesn't give me the same GUI lag as FL Studio, when I'm moving stuff around in the piano roll. This lag isn't with a huge project either; I could have a few instruments and low cpu usages but the piano roll is still laggy. Cubase has a similar feel; but doesn't give me the same problems.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Again, I urge you to figure out what's wrong with your set-up instead of throwing money at your problems.

GUI lag doesn't inherently exist in FL; it's happening to you because somewhere your settings are awry.

[timaeus222]

6 hours ago, YoungProdigy said:

I tried out Cubase and I think I'll be switching to that eventually. It doesn't give me the same GUI lag as FL Studio, when I'm moving stuff around in the piano roll. This lag isn't with a huge project either; I could have a few instruments and low cpu usages but the piano roll is still laggy. Cubase has a similar feel; but doesn't give me the same problems.

It's not a problem with FL Studio in and of itself. Clearly, if you have a problem in a practically empty project file and I don't (and never will), it's not a problem with FL Studio as a DAW. My computer is good, but it's not like it's incredibly strong and fast. More likely than not, it's a problem with your settings IN FL Studio. You even said that apparently Cubase worked fine, but if you then assert that it's automatically because it's not FL Studio, you've implicitly assumed coincidental correlation (post hoc, ergo propter hoc).

Seriously, compare your FL Studio settings again with Flexstyle's configuration and experiment some more before shelling out money to avoid trying to solve your own problems.

[YoungProdigy]

On 2/25/2016 at 11:35 PM, timaeus222 said:

It's not a problem with FL Studio in and of itself. Clearly, if you have a problem in a practically empty project file and I don't (and never will), it's not a problem with FL Studio as a DAW. My computer is good, but it's not like it's incredibly strong and fast. More likely than not, it's a problem with your settings IN FL Studio. You even said that apparently Cubase worked fine, but if you then assert that it's automatically because it's not FL Studio, you've implicitly assumed coincidental correlation (post hoc, ergo propter hoc).

Seriously, compare your FL Studio settings again with Flexstyle's configuration and experiment some more before shelling out money to avoid trying to solve your own problems.

Perhaps it's not a problem with FL Studio. But I've turned the Asio4All buffer to the max, resampling to the lowest setting, multithreading options on and still get lag when adjusting the piano roll. Besides that, I get random pops even with zero underruns and low CPU usage.

Anyway, I've made my decision; I'm switching to Cubase. I'm running Sampletank 3 on Cubase and have not yet had one stutter, pop, crackle or slowdown with a huge 3GB project.

What matters to me is what works for me. FL  works for you guys; but not for me. However, Cubase works perfectly for me. Now I just need to save up $99   to buy Cubase Elements.

[DarkeSword]

DPC spikes?

Do you have an NVIDIA graphics card, by any chance?

[Brandon Strader]

Very tl;dr thread but I read enough to see Cubase recommended I third (or fourth, or however many) the recommendation for Cubase.

My laptop is a 2.5GHz with 8gb ram, 64-bit of course.. Windows 8.1 right now. Nothing fancy. No pops with Cubase and I use an ASIO driver that keeps my input/output latency waaaay way low.  Just basic ASIO 4 ALL v2 that you should have in FL Studio is what I use with Cubase. It also works well with Generic ASIO driver. 512ms sample buffer or less.

If FL Studio can't offer you the same then I'd say stomp on. I never thought FL Studio was particularly efficient. Does it even have  64bit version yet? Last time I used it, it was still 32-bit... producer 11 or something.. crazy.  You might get more mileage out of Reaper and you could try that for free. 

Ok I read up a little. Damn, if I was looking for help with fruity loops and fl users responded like that, I'd jump ship too.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

5 hours ago, Brandon Strader said:

If FL Studio can't offer you the same then I'd say stomp on. I never thought FL Studio was particularly efficient. Does it even have  64bit version yet? Last time I used it, it was still 32-bit... producer 11 or something.. crazy.  You might get more mileage out of Reaper and you could try that for free. 

Ok I read up a little. Damn, if I was looking for help with fruity loops and fl users responded like that, I'd jump ship too.

There are plenty of reasons to jump ship from FL Studio that have nothing to do with CPU performance

[timaeus222]

5 hours ago, Brandon Strader said:

If FL Studio can't offer you the same then I'd say stomp on. I never thought FL Studio was particularly efficient. Does it even have  64bit version yet? Last time I used it, it was still 32-bit... producer 11 or something.. crazy.  You might get more mileage out of Reaper and you could try that for free.

Actually, FL 12 does have a 64-bit version, so it's all fine and dandy there.

[Nabeel Ansari]

8 hours ago, Brandon Strader said:

Ok I read up a little. Damn, if I was looking for help with fruity loops and fl users gave me perfectly reasonable advice that I ignored and then they got understandably angry when I posted responses disrespectfully wasting their time, I'd jump ship too

Doesn't surprise me, Brandon. Doesn't surprise me.

3 hours ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:

There are plenty of reasons to jump ship from FL Studio that have nothing to do with CPU performance

Of course... I mean, I was also of the advising voices to stay with it here, but I'm not an FL user. I think FL is extremely primitive and turns every small aspect of music making into a long chore (besides penciling in MIDI notes, the only thing it's good at doing), but I'm not deluded enough to think it doesn't function as a software.

 

That being said, valid points have been brought up elsewhere that explain why FL "sounds bad"; the mixer isn't 0-latency. Try putting a compressor on a channel, turn the dry/wet knob. You get comb filtering (sounds like you put a Phaser on it, you're not supposed to). If you route channels through different tracks with effects, it's a phasing nightmare; IL says it has plugin delay compensation but some remixers have noted it doesn't really work that well at all when doing lots of complex stuff.

If you render the same WAV files out of different DAW's, you will get the same result. However, if you render audio through the same routted/bussed FX chains (so same VST's, same groups of signals) in different DAW's, you can actually get different results.

And there is a perfectly valid and scientific reason why one would want to jump off FL. "It has GUI lag" or "It can't address multi-core processors" is not :U

[shadowpsyc]

56 minutes ago, Neblix said:

That being said, valid points have been brought up elsewhere that explain why FL "sounds bad"; the mixer isn't 0-latency. Try putting a compressor on a channel, turn the dry/wet knob. You get comb filtering (sounds like you put a Phaser on it, you're not supposed to). If you route channels through different tracks with effects, it's a phasing nightmare; IL says it has plugin delay compensation but some remixers have noted it doesn't really work that well at all when doing lots of complex stuff.

If you render the same WAV files out of different DAW's, you will get the same result. However, if you render audio through the same routted/bussed FX chains (so same VST's, same groups of signals) in different DAW's, you can actually get different results

 

I'm also suspicious that either something with that is changed for rendering or maybe most of the native plugins have some kind of HQ rendering mode that you *can't* turn off. Haven't tested it enough to say definitively, but I do feel like there's some difference between live playback and render in FL that I haven't noticed with Renoise or Modplug. If I'm really nitpicky about the mixing and mastering on a particular piece I can wind up rendering it 50 times trying to fine tune it.

 

Then again taking a few minutes off to render can give a different perspective and I obviously have confirmation bias since I had this idea at some point in the past and am now looking for it every time. Although a few months ago I did have one lead that was perfectly audible in FL render as nearly inaudible repeatedly until I changed it. Not sure why that would happen unless it actually renders differently, any DC offset or phasing issues and such should be apparent live wouldn't they?

 

2 hours ago, Neblix said:

(besides penciling in MIDI notes, the only thing it's good at doing)

 

I'd say per note controls and slides on native generators is also something really good about FL that most other DAWs aren't even attempting. That kind of granular control does make some things easier in FL or trackers than they would be with VST instruments, but then your average listener won't notice most of it anyway and it's only really applicable to synthesizers or drum samples since DirectWave is very basic

[timaeus222]

3 hours ago, shadowpsyc said:

I'm also suspicious that either something with that is changed for rendering or maybe most of the native plugins have some kind of HQ rendering mode that you *can't* turn off. Haven't tested it enough to say definitively, but I do feel like there's some difference between live playback and render in FL that I haven't noticed with Renoise or Modplug. If I'm really nitpicky about the mixing and mastering on a particular piece I can wind up rendering it 50 times trying to fine tune it.

Well, you aren't crazy when it comes to doing that. If I'm thinking of the same thing you are, sometimes I make music containing synths that don't reset their phase upon rendering (because I didn't set it to do so), so I get versions of the piece that don't quite sound how I want it, and I render until I get exactly the phase offset I want. It's almost like a specific set of "round robins" is cycled through, in a sense. I would hesitate to say that there is an actual difference between perfect non-laggy playback and an actual render in FL though.

[DarkeSword]

On 2/26/2016 at 2:07 PM, DarkeSword said:

DPC spikes?

Do you have an NVIDIA graphics card, by any chance?

Still wondering about this.

If you're seeing DPC lag issues it might be result of NVidia's Powermizer messing with your audio; the symptoms are almost always clicking and popping in your audio. This is a known issue that sometimes crops up; just do a search for NVidia and DPC and you'll see a ton of people posting about this.

There are tools available to disable Powermizer too.

[YoungProdigy]

On 2/28/2016 at 0:41 AM, DarkeSword said:

Still wondering about this.

If you're seeing DPC lag issues it might be result of NVidia's Powermizer messing with your audio; the symptoms are almost always clicking and popping in your audio. This is a known issue that sometimes crops up; just do a search for NVidia and DPC and you'll see a ton of people posting about this.

There are tools available to disable Powermizer too.

Yes, but if it's a latency issue, how come I don't notice any noticeable CPU spikes in other DAWs like Cubase?

I really want FL Studio to work for me; but the popping [with a max Asio4All buffer and low CPU usage], CPU spikes and crashing are too much for me.

I mean; if it wasn't for the random popping I could tolerate the lag. But I can't tolerate that annoying popping noise, which only happens in FL Studio for me. This random popping occurs whether it's a big or small project or whether the CPU usage is high or low.