I have some equipment... now what?

[OverCoat]

FINGERDRUM FINGERDRUM

Reason is far more useful as a synth rack than a sequencer. ReWire for the win eh?

[scarred1928]

You guys sure know how to confuse a n00b....

Maybe you could condense all this info into a tidy little solution for me:

1. Drums will need to be programmed.

2. I would like to use my Fantom as a MIDI controller to record what I'm playing verbatim as MIDI data to be played back by a sequencer. I would also use it as an easy way to enter notes in to a sequencer.

3. I would also like to record what I'm playing on the Fantom as audio data and be able to take, for example, a 4 bar bassline and turn it in to a loop that I can drag out/copy to any length that I want.

4. I also want to be able to, for example, record me playing piano for something like an outro and be able to simply place it in the song.

Don't worry about price with these programs, I have a friend that works at a music store that can get me a great discount.

[The Vagrance]

You guys sure know how to confuse a n00b....

Maybe you could condense all this info into a tidy little solution for me:

1. Drums will need to be programmed.

2. I would like to use my Fantom as a MIDI controller to record what I'm playing verbatim as MIDI data to be played back by a sequencer. I would also use it as an easy way to enter notes in to a sequencer.

3. I would also like to record what I'm playing on the Fantom as audio data and be able to take, for example, a 4 bar bassline and turn it in to a loop that I can drag out/copy to any length that I want.

4. I also want to be able to, for example, record me playing piano for something like an outro and be able to simply place it in the song.

Don't worry about price with these programs, I have a friend that works at a music store that can get me a great discount.

1. Any sequencer can do that.

2. Any sequencer can do that.

3. Reason drops out here, although I think FL can do it

4. Now FL and Reason are out, best bets are Sonar, Cubase, Logic, etc.

There are work-arounds for each of them to be able to do all of them in Reason and FL and such but full-fledged DAWs such as Sonar, Cubase, Logic, and even Ableton Live are your best bets. I reccomend you try them all out (well, I don't think Cubase has a demo) before you buy.

[Souliarc]

I recommend you try them all out (well, I don't think Cubase has a demo) before you buy.

Cubase or Pro Tools doesn't anymore I think the latest demo released for Cubase was in 2002, and Pro Tools a couple years ago.

Oh yeah, don't count out Pro Tools either (unless, ya know, you want to). It doesn't get much support here but it's very common in recording studios due to it's hardware integration and processing power. Pro Tools LE is the home based version, and probably the one you'll be interested in (considering costs don't start at $10,000 like for Pro Tools HD). MIDI capabilities have vastly improved and there are different packs you can get that include more plug-ins if you wish. For $450, you get the Mbox 2 audio interface (with MIDI I/O), Pro Tools LE, the Ignition Pack with a host of popular software tools, and a very informative instructional DVD called Method One.

[zircon]

Uh, FL can record just fine. Right click on the track you want to record, arm the sequencer, hit play, and just... play. Stop when you're done. It's the same process you would use if you were recording in Pro Tools. The audio will immediately appear in the playlist and you can then slice it up, add effects, add automation, etc.

[Splunkle]

You guys sure know how to confuse a n00b....

Maybe you could condense all this info into a tidy little solution for me:

1. Drums will need to be programmed.

2. I would like to use my Fantom as a MIDI controller to record what I'm playing verbatim as MIDI data to be played back by a sequencer. I would also use it as an easy way to enter notes in to a sequencer.

3. I would also like to record what I'm playing on the Fantom as audio data and be able to take, for example, a 4 bar bassline and turn it in to a loop that I can drag out/copy to any length that I want.

4. I also want to be able to, for example, record me playing piano for something like an outro and be able to simply place it in the song.

Don't worry about price with these programs, I have a friend that works at a music store that can get me a great discount.

1. Any sequencer can do that.

2. Any sequencer can do that.

3. Reason drops out here, although I think FL can do it

4. Now FL and Reason are out, best bets are Sonar, Cubase, Logic, etc.

There are work-arounds for each of them to be able to do all of them in Reason and FL and such but full-fledged DAWs such as Sonar, Cubase, Logic, and even Ableton Live are your best bets. I reccomend you try them all out (well, I don't think Cubase has a demo) before you buy.

As Zirc said, Fruity is fine for number 4. Audio clips! But maybe the others do it better? Anyways, totally agreed on Reason's lack of audio recording. =[

Anyways, since price is no object, get demos of Sonar and Fruity. Except you already got the fruity demo. Get the Sonar demo as well then. Oh! and that is assuming you are on windows! If you are using a mac, Logic all the way, though GarageBand is apparantly neat for starting.

[scarred1928]

Yes, I'm on Windows.

I have Sonar 6 but for some reason MIDI playback does not function. It can not detect my MIDI device.

Probably going to have to buy a soundcard for my computer. My computer has nice integrated audio (It's an ASUS mobo) but it is just that, integrated. I've been wanting to add a SC for awhile now, this is just another one. Fruity Loops impressed me with it's demo project file with the vocoded vocals... but I really am lost by it's interface. Sonar's makes much more sense to me so far, but the lack of MIDI function leaves me stranded...

[zircon]

The FL website has a huge repository of tutorial videos that show you exactly how the workflow operates. It will make so much more sense when you see it in action. Trust me; I initially used Sonar, and after getting the hang of FL, I couldn't go back.

Also, you will certainly want a dedicated soundcard. I recommend the EMU 0404.

[scarred1928]

zircon - You should really be a FL rep... you really make me simply WANT to use FL...

I will watch those videos and definately mess around with FL.

One problem that you may help with, what about all this talk of FL having poor synths? What can I do to work around that?

Another, what about creating loop patterns? i.e. taking raw audio data recorded with my Fantom and making a loopable audio sample?

[Souliarc]

I have Sonar 6 but for some reason MIDI playback does not function. It can not detect my MIDI device.

As long as you're connected (i'm guessing USB?) and your drivers are installed correctly it should be a no brainer. Choose your I/O from Options -> MIDI Devices, load up the PSYN II synth (optional), arm the MIDI track for record, and go at it.

One problem that you may help with, what about all this talk of FL having poor synths? What can I do to work around that?

I heard that Sytrus is pretty sweet (the pun, please excuse).

[scarred1928]

I have Sonar 6 but for some reason MIDI playback does not function. It can not detect my MIDI device.

As long as you're connected (i'm guessing USB?) and your drivers are installed correctly it should be a no brainer. Choose your I/O from Options -> MIDI Devices, load up the PSYN II synth (optional), arm the MIDI track for record, and go at it.

Well it detects my Fantom just fine. I'm referring to playback of MIDI data through the program through my speakers. The only way I've gotten it to work is by outputting MIDI data in to the Fantom and playing it back through there. FL works just fine though... maybe it's a sign?

[zircon]

FL's built in synths are indeed not the greatest if you compare them to $200+ softsynths or $2000+ hardware synths. However, let's go down the list. Some of these must be purchased separately, if you don't get the XXL edition.

3xOsc is a very simple subtractive "virtual analog" synth with very vanilla oscillators and filters. However, it uses basically no CPU. It's ideal if you want a basic synth sound that any ol' subtractive synth can do. My favorite use is for basic sinewave basses and leads, gliding saw leads, and supersaw pads. FL comes with a layer tool also so you can build a 3xOsc patch, clone it 3 times, and then layer 'em all together to play it like a 12-osc, 4-filter synth. Cool stuff.

Simsynth (comes with XXL) is a Minimoog-ish synth. It's more advanced than 3xOsc in that you have control over the pulse width of the oscillators, as well as a better built in filter, and easy controls for doubling octaves and 'warming' the sound. Again, ideal for analog-style sounds without using a lot of CPU.

Wasp and Wasp-XT are also cool (XT was a free beta DL last I checked). They are small synths with limited controls, but a potentially HARSH sound. They have FM and distortion built in, as well as some badass filter types (double notch, fat LP) and an easy tool for stereo spread and analog detuning. Great if you need something with some bite to it. Also has very low CPU.

Sytrus is the big daddy of 'em all. This is the one that goes toe-to-toe with any other synth I've used. It's got a massive 6-osc FM/RM matrix with a full effects sections, tweakable unison, an X/Y controller, THREE filters, and envelopes/LFO on basically every control imaginable - not to mention incredibly deep oscillators where you can draw your own waveform. It sounds fantastic and has a big preset bank. The only draw is it's a little CPU heavy, but hey, with the added power, that's to be expected.

Now, as for as loop patterns go... well, you've picked the right host. FL is ideal for that. Anything you record becomes an "audio clip" in FL which can be manipulated as an individual object. Let's say you record a little over 4 bars of audio to a click track. Simply check that the quantization on FL is set to "Beat", take the cut tool, and drag it vertically across the excess audio that was recorded. You've now cut your recording into a clean 4 bar phrase, with a little extra. Right click on the extra to delete it. Very simple! You can then instantly make copies of the 4 bar phrase by using the pencil tool and clicking to the right of your initial phrase. Click and drag and you can draw in as many copies as you want, all of which can be moved individually.

Want to edit the audio in a more in depth fashion? Every "audio clip" has an options menu where you can access more features. The automation menu lets you superimpose a volume or panning envelope right over the sound, so you can draw in dynamics of some kind. Of course, the envelope itself can be moved anywhere to your convenience! There's a beat-slicer built in if you want to divide your audio up into discrete bits, and the new version of FL coming soon (beta is out already) has a dedicated audio editor that you can access with a single click to do really in depth stuff. The list goes on.

That's what I like about FL. It's non-linear when it comes to audio. When you record, the audio isn't locked into a set start and end point. It becomes its own object which can then be moved, stretched, and mangled separately from anything else - and you rarely have to switch tools.

edit: And of course, there are numerous ways to record MIDI loops. That's no problem.

[Souliarc]

I have Sonar 6 but for some reason MIDI playback does not function. It can not detect my MIDI device.

As long as you're connected (i'm guessing USB?) and your drivers are installed correctly it should be a no brainer. Choose your I/O from Options -> MIDI Devices, load up the PSYN II synth (optional), arm the MIDI track for record, and go at it.

Well it detects my Fantom just fine. I'm referring to playback of MIDI data through the program through my speakers. The only way I've gotten it to work is by outputting MIDI data in to the Fantom and playing it back through there. FL works just fine though... maybe it's a sign?

Have you tried getting any output through Sonar at all, not just MIDI? Maybe you have your sound card I/O set up wrong.

[scarred1928]

Well zircon... you've converted me! I'm probably going to work with FL. Everything you have described is exactly what I'm looking for.

In addition, I listened to all of your remixes in one giant playlist a few minutes ago, and after that... I decided that FL could do anything I wanted. Amazing stuff running the gamut of genres and with absolutely pristine audio quality throughout.

I have no business posting this here but this is what I managed to create before coming to this site.

Mind you... I created this song entirely in Sony VEGAS... I was tapping on the desk trying to line things up and just used the preset drum patterns on my Fantom X8. All synths etc. were presets including the bassline arpeggios... so creative!

http://www.myspace.com/thegrandsummoners

Crap, yes... but it was my first EVER endeavor in to electronic music of any kind.

[scarred1928]

I have Sonar 6 but for some reason MIDI playback does not function. It can not detect my MIDI device.

As long as you're connected (i'm guessing USB?) and your drivers are installed correctly it should be a no brainer. Choose your I/O from Options -> MIDI Devices, load up the PSYN II synth (optional), arm the MIDI track for record, and go at it.

Well it detects my Fantom just fine. I'm referring to playback of MIDI data through the program through my speakers. The only way I've gotten it to work is by outputting MIDI data in to the Fantom and playing it back through there. FL works just fine though... maybe it's a sign?

Have you tried getting any output through Sonar at all, not just MIDI? Maybe you have your sound card I/O set up wrong.

Yes, I'm getting audio output. Just not MIDI output.

Maybe this is a sign to go with FL...

I have a feeling it's a soundcard issue so I'm going to just start with FL. zircon sold me on that one!

[Yoozer]

Well it detects my Fantom just fine. I'm referring to playback of MIDI data through the program through my speakers. The only way I've gotten it to work is by outputting MIDI data in to the Fantom and playing it back through there. FL works just fine though... maybe it's a sign?

Whatever you play on your Fantom only comes out of your Fantom as sound - NOT out of your computer's soundcard. Your soundcard can only record it, but the Fantom isn't telling your computer how it sounds via USB, only what it plays.

Remember, MIDI is not Audio.