PRC421 - Techno And Opera Will Save The Earth (Rave Racer + Lufia 2)

[The Vodoú Queen]

Thanks everyone for the support and critiques--will do my best to try and be more intricate with harps / pizzicatos / arpeggio runs and be more aware of tempo / key signature shifts. It's really hard for me, at least, to temper that latter aspect, especially when working with 2-3 separate sources PLUS the loops in BandLab Online. Guess my ears for certain tones and keys just needs more practice. ^^;

Also gonna send my pick to @Bundeslang in like the next few minutes. Hope people enjoy it. :3

@anachromium You're certainly welcome. ♥ Your criticism (nor anyone else's) was too harsh or anything. I think, if anything, it's just a tad overwhelming for me cause I'm fairly new-ish to this gig, so trying to keep everything in mind and get better with each song made is crazy to say the least. But thank you too, for your kindness.

I think I am OK with composition crafting, at least, but I understand your delimma. I never really ask about or seek out collabs for similar reasons--because I don't wanna drag others down with my limited knowledge on music crafting / theory or use of a kind of so-so DAW (not anything more legit like Cubase or FL, GarageBand, Ableton Live, etc.) And because I don't know how well it'd mesh taking someone's work on MIDI or WAV or MP3 and slapping it onto BandLab to mess with it further, I don't ask.

However, I will keep your offer certainly in mind. And maybe when we're both a little more comfortable in our spheres of music crafting, we can do something way more defined, complex, and cool.

@TheVideoGamer I replied to your query above BTW, hun.

[TheVideoGamer]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:20 PM, The Vodoú Queen said:

@TheVideoGamer

Bandlab Online -- sadly I don't have the money to get FL Studio and the like.

I do have Cakewalk downloaded, but standard DAWs for me, ATM, is very intimidating to look at. BLO kind of has a bit of the training wheels look with simplified DAW, but the sacrifice is no good instrument VSTs and you're using their loops and stuff unless you find you own .wavs online. It's all royalty free so no laws broken, but my hands are tied to limited things using it, I know.

Also yeah I think I saved my song for the highest, best MP3 it could do. I thought it was less than 20 mb, but I'll have to re-check.

Why do you ask?

The only reason i ask, is because as a FL user, my method for reducing the kbps may differ in other DAWS. So if i were to say something, you might be lost, because your DAW is different.

I mentioned this method, because i learnt length wasn't the factor in uploading, it was file size. And whenever i had a large file size, i would reduce the kbps, which brings the total file size by megabytes down.

If you ever feel like you can't upload, this is an idea. Sure you might loose a bit of quality, but so far nothing major has really been affected.

I also heard LMMS is also a good free daw to use. Never tried it myself, since i've had FL Studio for so long, but some say it's the next best thing.

[TheVideoGamer]

On 2/8/2021 at 8:31 PM, Bundeslang said:

It's results time.

TheVideoGamer and Brainstar both did a two bonus mix.

Wassup Thunder got 10 points and gets the last place wooden spoon

And the winner of PRC421 by unanimous decision is with TheVodouQueen with 15 points.

TheVodouQueen may pick a source for PRC423. Send the source to me (with a MID/MP3 file, otherwise send a second source with a MID file) by PM, other options are PM me @ ThaSauce or by e-mailing to bambombim@gmail.com (I prefer a PM @Ocremix). Send your source as fast as you can, but before next Wednesday (17 February 2021), 11:00 AM ThaSauce time (18:00 UTC, 19:00 GMT).

You may select any source from any game, but not a source with an OverClocked remix or a source which has been used in PRC before. An overview of the past PRC's can be found in the following links (I recently updated this site):

http://sites.google.com/site/bambombim/prc

http://bambombim.googlepages.com/PRCRemixList.doc (also downloadable via the link above).

 

Next double source round I probably change the bonus rule for mixing both sources because the advantage is too big when only two people compete. This round, it didn't affect the result.

 

http://compo.thasauce.net/rounds/view/PRC421 for the votes and comments.

PRC422 already started: http://compo.thasauce.net/rounds/view/PRC422

I've been so busy i've forgotten about this lol. I'll give some thoughts in a post here, one second.

[The Vodoú Queen]

@TheVideoGamer I'll keep that DAW you mention, LMMS, in mind. TBH starting next month or something I might try the move to using more legitimate DAW to work with.

Just wish I had a MIDI keyboard and pads to work with lol. Feel off with a typing keyboard and mouse.

[TheVideoGamer]

Ok here goes some thoughts about each of you's:

TheVodouQueen - Wooow this one is long, and with good reason too. Both of these sources need a lot of time to develop, especially since Ridge Racer on it's own is 4 minutes, and a fully fleshed out variant of Lufia would also be about 4 minutes. So in theory, long tracks for long sources are good. Now what i really liked about this, is the recognisable elements from each. I like how you took the choir of the original Rave Racer track. (Which for those who are wondering, is actually taken from Soul Edge, released on the PS1. They sampled it for this track), that was a nice touch. The 80's synth elements were outstanding, the instrument choices were just great. Now unfortunately i don't know the exact process, i know you've said it's experimental, and i've taken that to account, however i feel like your trying to deliberately make the sources clash. I don't know, it just feels...dissonant. I mean this is the intention, but maybe for me, it needs to be better integrated. It felt more like 2 separate tracks being forced to work together. Oh well, the arrangement is spot on here. Definitely did not bore me for the whole 9 minutes. Also while were on this topic, i would have loved for you to explore more ridge racer. Like make a full blown section, dedicated to Rave Racer. Sure the last part of the track is mostly Rave Racer, but i could go for more of it, than maybe parts of it. I think it has something to do with my bias towards the game lol. Before i ramble, i just wanna say this is very well produced, and worth the whole journey. Well done!

Wassup Thunder - This is definitely a kind of sound i would imagine for Lufia. I always love your orchestral pallets, it sounds soo nicely done. The rock elements work surprisingly well here too, i was not expecting that for a man of rich orchestral sounds. I really love the way you've blended the sounds, it sounds so much like Anime music, which i think it's a compliment. If i had to critique it, it would be that the rock element is getting pushed down by the orchestra. I feel the drums could be louder and bigger (The rock drums, not the orchestral ones), and maybe the guitar could be more pronounced. I mean i said it fits super well, because it does, however if you really want to amplify the hard guitar parts, i suggest beefing it up, to make it more aggressive. Also i felt this was a bit too consistent. The drums just kept going, not stopping, and the strings were full force. However though, i think this is super nicely done, and definitely enjoyable to listen to. Well done!

Brainstar - Feels like a start to 2 tracks. Each with it's own ideas. I love the trombone usage here, creates that really nice fanfare approach. I also really dug the switch to the A major chord at the end. A beautiful transition into Rave Racer, clever. That synth bass sound is pretty lovely here too. It obviously feels like you couldn't do much, what with the laptop damage, however i definitely see potential here for a expansion. It sounds like a lovely start. Well done!

[TheVideoGamer]

3 hours ago, The Vodoú Queen said:

@TheVideoGamer I'll keep that DAW you mention, LMMS, in mind. TBH starting next month or something I might try the move to using more legitimate DAW to work with.

Just wish I had a MIDI keyboard and pads to work with lol. Feel off with a typing keyboard and mouse.

From research a Launchpad goes on the market for £90 , equivalent to 124 dollars (I assume your from the UK right? based on what you've put in your profile)

The cheapest keyboard i can fine is an Akai, and that goes on the market for £37 equivalent to 51 dollars. 

This is my research, maybe it might help.

[The Vodoú Queen]

Ah I see.

Sorry it took me awhile to reply.

I do have a question though for everyone, but unsure if anything can be done about it.

I see an overwhelming amount of commentary on my work so far be concerned or bring up the problematic aspect of key sig issues, abrupt changes and dissonance in my songs. I'm not sure how to rectify it. I can't really "ear" it, it seems. And, after getting back a first-time rejection letter from OCR yesterday (didn't make it past the first peer review), same thing applies--and I don't know how to fix that, whether it's discrepancies between MIDI and samples or two different MIDI...and I feel it's killing my chances at making even decent songs.

I also get the occasional "song has no space" from certain individuals, but I'm trying to work that out by simply pulling out overcrowded areas (I tried that in Tekno-Saviour) and play it with dB and vol to put instruments in back, mid, or foreground.

But yeah... Any tips? I'm unsure how to fix this / these problems, genuinely.

[The Vodoú Queen]

I also feel real stupid asking, as most people probably grasped this off the bat, considering key sig and tone is music 101...

Edited February 19, 2021 by The Vodoú Queen
And I am scared to attempt the latest PRC and MnP with these issues in regard.

[Wassup Thunder]

@The Vodoú Queen I understand the frustration/stress of not being sure on how to address critique you get, you got my sympathies! About the dissonance/key sig thing, I've never worked with changing the pitch/key of an audio sample, so I'm afraid I can't offer much help on that. If the program you're using can change the pitch of a sample, that might be something to experiment with. I didn't think you often had issues with dissonance in the past, just some parts on this last one, I don't believe it's a problem you frequently have had. It can be discouraging, but I believe everyone can continue to find how to improve and refine their skills, even when we're not sure what we're doing at times.

And don't feel too bad about getting a rejection on OCR.  The judge panel keeps a very high standard of music, and lots of submissions don't make it on the first try. I can relate a bit, I've had some projects here that were politely told were very lacking and needed lots of improvement. Try and keep hope in your compositions and ability, hard critique never means you're failure.

[The Vodoú Queen]

@Wassup Thunder Hey!

Nah, it's way less the factor of I "don't like the critiques". I am very grateful to get them!--I think my issue is, like you said, addressing them adequately to learn better technique and, thusly, grow in skill.

It was simply I noticed that dissonance is a big flaw for the moment, and I'm just trying to sit here and think of ways to fix it (or be able to). I think the problem is there's a lot of sampling I have to work with, so yeah. Yes, BandLab / Cakewalk does have it where if you right-click on a sample, you can change the pitch, (sharpen or flatten)--unsure about actual key. I'll have to further look into it. :S Might just have to look up basic tutorials on DAW and key changes, see where that takes me. Might be a simple matter like with EQ Bands, and messing with it enough times to be able to "listen out" for dissonance in harmony and adjust for it.

BUT, if people have general ways to deal with it properly, just say. ^^ Always good to take on pointers. xD

TBH, the song I queried to the judges is like the 2nd one I've ever composed--so it had very little in the way EQing or general balancing passes, if at all--so I am not overly surprised at the result. Honestly, I was taken aback happily at the fact someone gave me an in-depth reply with some coaching / encouragement with it. Way different than the form rejections I used to get when I submitted a work of fiction writing to a magazine or such, so it was a nice, refreshing, different take. I'm glad that it's not super often, the dissonance issue, but it cropped up often enough to ask and see if I can make it better.

And well, you're absolutely right, and TBF I'd rather have a polite but informative rejection rather than a form letter just saying "better luck next time, kid." xD

But thanks for the words of encouragement. ♥

[TheVideoGamer]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:56 PM, The Vodoú Queen said:

Ah I see.

Sorry it took me awhile to reply.

I do have a question though for everyone, but unsure if anything can be done about it.

I see an overwhelming amount of commentary on my work so far be concerned or bring up the problematic aspect of key sig issues, abrupt changes and dissonance in my songs. I'm not sure how to rectify it. I can't really "ear" it, it seems. And, after getting back a first-time rejection letter from OCR yesterday (didn't make it past the first peer review), same thing applies--and I don't know how to fix that, whether it's discrepancies between MIDI and samples or two different MIDI...and I feel it's killing my chances at making even decent songs.

I also get the occasional "song has no space" from certain individuals, but I'm trying to work that out by simply pulling out overcrowded areas (I tried that in Tekno-Saviour) and play it with dB and vol to put instruments in back, mid, or foreground.

But yeah... Any tips? I'm unsure how to fix this / these problems, genuinely.

Sorry it too me long to reply too haha...

Now i don't know much in regards to the sending off remixes, because largely i think the remix portion is a bit...off. I can elaborate in a PM if you wish, but for now, i'll just say i'm not a fan of that area....toxic is putting it lightly.

Now i only really picked up dissonance in this Rave Racer/Lufia remix, but that was because you were trying to make it dissonant. When i commented, i felt it could be better worked into the track, but this is what my ears picked upon, and since that's the only issue i had with the track, that's all i needed to really mention. The arrangement was amazing. So in that regard, i can only speak for my ears. Anyone else's point is different to mine.

As for the "song has no space" thing, i don't know. Largely because i've never noticed it in your tracks. I don't hear it at all, maybe my ears are different (Again i try and go for the more obvious stuff. By picking only the small things, your really just saying, it's not to my high level of standards, which i don't want. For me it's basically: Is it good and why, as well as Is it bad and why. And i explain in each. 

Basically i think of it like this:
Q. Is there too much bass in the song, which sounds muddy?

A: If so, it's a problem that needs addressing.

Q: Is there a small riser that comes off as a tad bit loud?

A: If it only happens once in the remix, and it's a long remix, and it doesn't impact the whole song, then your really not critiquing, your more likely just being a jerk.

That's what you need to look out for. I mean don't say it to the faces, show some decency. However it's good to pick upon that, because it highlights the extreme standards. 

For PRC and other similar compo's you submit, we give feedback. Winner picks next source. We don't look for studio quality, we just look for if it's good or not, based on our ears. I want you to keep that in mind, so you can feel more welcome here.

Edited February 21, 2021 by TheVideoGamer

[TheVideoGamer]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:57 PM, The Vodoú Queen said:

I also feel real stupid asking, as most people probably grasped this off the bat, considering key sig and tone is music 101...

Don't be daft lol. Ask away, we wanna help you. We will never turn you away.

[TheVideoGamer]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:01 PM, Wassup Thunder said:

@The Vodoú Queen I understand the frustration/stress of not being sure on how to address critique you get, you got my sympathies! About the dissonance/key sig thing, I've never worked with changing the pitch/key of an audio sample, so I'm afraid I can't offer much help on that. If the program you're using can change the pitch of a sample, that might be something to experiment with. I didn't think you often had issues with dissonance in the past, just some parts on this last one, I don't believe it's a problem you frequently have had. It can be discouraging, but I believe everyone can continue to find how to improve and refine their skills, even when we're not sure what we're doing at times.

And don't feel too bad about getting a rejection on OCR.  The judge panel keeps a very high standard of music, and lots of submissions don't make it on the first try. I can relate a bit, I've had some projects here that were politely told were very lacking and needed lots of improvement. Try and keep hope in your compositions and ability, hard critique never means you're failure.

Even Wassup knows lol. 

The only other suggestion i have is, train your ears. For me i have perfect pitch, and i mean the complete perfect pitch package (So not just, i can identify a note, but also the key, the rhythm, the timbre etc.). Perfect Pitch really helps when remixing and recreating etc. It's why i can fire out MIDI's, Come up with cool ideas etc. (Not trying to brag, just highlighting how much of a benefit it is).

They say it's a birth thing, which i think is total bull. People develop it through training, as you grow with age. It's really just train your ears, that's as much as i can offer.

But use this as well as the rejection as a chance to improve and get stronger.

Edited February 21, 2021 by TheVideoGamer

[anachromium]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:56 PM, The Vodoú Queen said:

Ah I see.

Sorry it took me awhile to reply.

I do have a question though for everyone, but unsure if anything can be done about it.

I see an overwhelming amount of commentary on my work so far be concerned or bring up the problematic aspect of key sig issues, abrupt changes and dissonance in my songs. I'm not sure how to rectify it. I can't really "ear" it, it seems. And, after getting back a first-time rejection letter from OCR yesterday (didn't make it past the first peer review), same thing applies--and I don't know how to fix that, whether it's discrepancies between MIDI and samples or two different MIDI...and I feel it's killing my chances at making even decent songs.

I also get the occasional "song has no space" from certain individuals, but I'm trying to work that out by simply pulling out overcrowded areas (I tried that in Tekno-Saviour) and play it with dB and vol to put instruments in back, mid, or foreground.

But yeah... Any tips? I'm unsure how to fix this / these problems, genuinely.

Sorry on my part too for being a bit late.

The dissonance thing is a tricky one to get right, because of two reasons that usually intersect. a) The more often you listen to a part, the more you get used to the dissonance. This is tricky, because one loses the ability to feel how the dissonance is perceived by first-time listeners. I personally tend to give the piece a couple of days at rest and give it a fresh listen, trying to catch up on everything that strikes my ears immediately. b) What do you want to achieve with the dissonance? Just make it sound "wrong" or do you want to lead it into another direction? For the latter, I would advice: listen to Richard Strauss. His music is full of crazy harmonics, especially his later compositions, or maybe the early Schönberg. ("Verklärte Nacht" for example.) This composers were masters of harmonics and they challenge us performers every time we play those compositions, because WE have to get the harmonic directions right to make the piece sound like it should.

When you deal with MIDI: try to pick up the notes, that sound too "wrong" for the purpose you want, and adjust them a little bit. Fiddle around, until you find something that works - it's often tiny changes in melody, that adept it to a new key. For example, for PRC422 (Undertale - Ruin) I'll use the first bar of the theme as an ostinato-style bass figure, but as I'll play with the chords and the melody above, I'll have to change a note here and there until it fits together again - which also makes the composition a little bit more interesting most times as it's not always the same then.

I have to disagree with @TheVideoGamer about perfect pitch. I don't think one can train it - but I also think you don't it. There is so much more to listening skills than just identifying what note is played exactly, and training those other skills is far more important than that. Put on some good music and listen actively, search for everything you can hear, look out for the timbre and all the "little things" one isn't suppose to notice. I do it all the time when I'm sitting in the orchestral pit. (As a trombone player I have plenty of time during an opera! ) I'll close my eyes and try to identify all the different instruments, where they are, how they sound today, maybe try and figure out who plays if I haven't seen the colleague before the performance.

Hope, this helps you in any way.

 

And before I forget, three last points: There are no stupid questions. "Music theory" is only the scientific way of saying "Mozart and Bach did it that way". Stay curious - that's all you need!

[TheVideoGamer]

On 2/21/2021 at 6:11 PM, anachromium said:

Sorry on my part too for being a bit late.

The dissonance thing is a tricky one to get right, because of two reasons that usually intersect. a) The more often you listen to a part, the more you get used to the dissonance. This is tricky, because one loses the ability to feel how the dissonance is perceived by first-time listeners. I personally tend to give the piece a couple of days at rest and give it a fresh listen, trying to catch up on everything that strikes my ears immediately. b) What do you want to achieve with the dissonance? Just make it sound "wrong" or do you want to lead it into another direction? For the latter, I would advice: listen to Richard Strauss. His music is full of crazy harmonics, especially his later compositions, or maybe the early Schönberg. ("Verklärte Nacht" for example.) This composers were masters of harmonics and they challenge us performers every time we play those compositions, because WE have to get the harmonic directions right to make the piece sound like it should.

When you deal with MIDI: try to pick up the notes, that sound too "wrong" for the purpose you want, and adjust them a little bit. Fiddle around, until you find something that works - it's often tiny changes in melody, that adept it to a new key. For example, for PRC422 (Undertale - Ruin) I'll use the first bar of the theme as an ostinato-style bass figure, but as I'll play with the chords and the melody above, I'll have to change a note here and there until it fits together again - which also makes the composition a little bit more interesting most times as it's not always the same then.

I have to disagree with @TheVideoGamer about perfect pitch. I don't think one can train it - but I also think you don't it. There is so much more to listening skills than just identifying what note is played exactly, and training those other skills is far more important than that. Put on some good music and listen actively, search for everything you can hear, look out for the timbre and all the "little things" one isn't suppose to notice. I do it all the time when I'm sitting in the orchestral pit. (As a trombone player I have plenty of time during an opera! ) I'll close my eyes and try to identify all the different instruments, where they are, how they sound today, maybe try and figure out who plays if I haven't seen the colleague before the performance.

Hope, this helps you in any way.

 

And before I forget, three last points: There are no stupid questions. "Music theory" is only the scientific way of saying "Mozart and Bach did it that way". Stay curious - that's all you need!

The problem with Schoenberg, Stravinsky and the like, is that if you are uneducated or unaware of these guys work (And to a degree background), it gets thrown in the usual garbage bin as, unwanted random dissonance, which only comes from those who just simply put it on, rather than understand why. When i was young i had to study this dude, (Schoenberg), and i did not enjoy his music at all, it was just unorganized, unfocused, it felt like some dude organising an orchestra of newbies to just to play their instruments, like no sheet music, just play randomly.  But as i grew, and studied him, i learnt what he was doing, and why. He wanted to break free of the convential music norms society has so clearly tried to hold onto. He's basically saying "Hey, we've done major and minor for so long, let's try the other end. Let's make it the norm". 

And if you want the other extreme, Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase.....

Also in response to the perfect pitch debate (Just thoughts by the way, not saying this is the definitive answer):

1. People always like to think you either have perfect pitch or you don't, which i think it's bull. You cannot just get it from birth, that's quite a intense view to have. So while i might have gone a bit heavy on the idea that you can train it, i still think there is a time period to when one has perfected their pitch. It's the same as instrument prodigy's. When you say oh "this 5 year old is better than me" (After watching a video of some kid shredding the piano), your really looking at a talented individual with parents who have really pushed them to their limits (IE, they have done more intense practice sessions on their instrument than others, which is often due to strict parenting).  You can't just say they're better....well ok, i have to be honest (They're usually way better than me lol. Although i'm joking when i say this, they're pretty much self-esteem destroyers lol). 

2. The minute you get "it" the minute you have it is also a problem. I think there is a time frame, in that you can build-upon your discovery, to really make perfect pitch more perfect.

3. Majority say it goes away when you age, to where if your older, you have a harder time. I watched a video from a dude named Rick Beato about it. It's pretty fascinating.

Anyway's i don't want to ramble. Interesting perspectives eh?

Since you play in an orchestra, you probably have more hands on experience than me, so take my response with a grain of salt (After all, we are forgetting the other key elements, timbre, texture, tonality, tone, rhythm, tempo, arrangement etc...)

 

[anachromium]

14 hours ago, TheVideoGamer said:

The problem with Schoenberg, Stravinsky and the like, is that if you are uneducated or unaware of these guys work (And to a degree background), it gets thrown in the usual garbage bin as, unwanted random dissonance, which only comes from those who just simply put it on, rather than understand why. When i was young i had to study this dude, (Schoenberg), and i did not enjoy his music at all, it was just unorganized, unfocused, it felt like some dude organising an orchestra of newbies to just to play their instruments, like no sheet music, just play randomly.  But as i grew, and studied him, i learnt what he was doing, and why. He wanted to break free of the convential music norms society has so clearly tried to hold onto. He's basically saying "Hey, we've done major and minor for so long, let's try the other end. Let's make it the norm". 

And if you want the other extreme, Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase. Steve Reich and the like, challenges us to deeply analyse the qualities of a continuously endless, simplistic looped phrase.....

Also in response to the perfect pitch debate (Just thoughts by the way, not saying this is the definitive answer):

1. People always like to think you either have perfect pitch or you don't, which i think it's bull. You cannot just get it from birth, that's quite a intense view to have. So while i might have gone a bit heavy on the idea that you can train it, i still think there is a time period to when one has perfected their pitch. It's the same as instrument prodigy's. When you say oh "this 5 year old is better than me" (After watching a video of some kid shredding the piano), your really looking at a talented individual with parents who have really pushed them to their limits (IE, they have done more intense practice sessions on their instrument than others, which is often due to strict parenting).  You can't just say they're better....well ok, i have to be honest (They're usually way better than me lol. Although i'm joking when i say this, they're pretty much self-esteem destroyers lol). 

2. The minute you get "it" the minute you have it is also a problem. I think there is a time frame, in that you can build-upon your discovery, to really make perfect pitch more perfect.

3. Majority say it goes away when you age, to where if your older, you have a harder time. I watched a video from a dude named Rick Beato about it. It's pretty fascinating.

Anyway's i don't want to ramble. Interesting perspectives eh?

Since you play in an orchestra, you probably have more hands on experience than me, so take my response with a grain of salt (After all, we are forgetting the other key elements, timbre, texture, tonality, tone, rhythm, tempo, arrangement etc...)

 

Indeed interesting perspectives! So many things to discuss and so little space in a thread.

I know that Schönberg and Stravinsky can bit a little bit heavy on the newcomer, that's why I recommended his early works like "Verklärte Nacht" which still is very much in the realms of tonality, but he already bends it heavily - which was befitting the question I assumed. (He was around 25 when he composed it.) But maybe I was overambitious - one never knows. Always reach for the stars. ;)

The grain of salt I'd like to give back, as I'm only a musician, not a neurologist. I didn't know that people lose perfect pitch, that's completely new to me. And just to clarify: I fully second your point, that you have to train it. Perfect pitch without training is probably no big help, but I also don't know, how one without the ability could train it and get even close to one, that could do it as long es he could think. I don't think I have it, but I can - at least on my instruments, that I practise daily - guess the played pitch relatively accurate. But I also don't think, it's a necessary skill to call a note by its name when hearing it, without any context - as long as you don't sing contemporary music, there it's an extremely big help. On the other hand relative pitch hearing I would consider extremely important, this is also what Mr. Beato recommends at the end of the video. The rest, being able to imagine a timbre for example, I would consider "visualisation"-skills that can be trained like any other skill - and should. (I relate this heavily to the way a chess master is visualising the chess board and the pieces, which feels extremely difficult, but is surprisingly easy - don't say it's easy, just easier than I thought - once you realize that it's just so hard because your brain has never done it before.)

Now I've been rambling. But you can always reach out to me via PM or on discord (I've been attending the thasauce server for a couple of days) if you'd like to discuss some points further that would blow this up too much. This is interesting stuff. ;) (Same offer to @The Vodoú Queen if you have any questions whatsover regarding what I said!) Always an open ear, especially in these times where social distancing is the rule rather than the exception. And nothing's better than a good, respectful discussion that everyone leaves a little bit wiser than he/she entered.