Emunator Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Artist: Everybody Man *RESUBMISSION* Previous Judges Decision Hi again! I'm back after incorporating the feedback you guys gave from my first submission. I also visited the workshop where I got some great mixing advice. I believe this has really improved since the first go-around, and I hope you guys agree! A lot of the feedback was about the loudness of everything - especially the saw arp from Short Hike overpowering the other parts and the kick pumping everything against the limiter. I followed Emunators advice in the workshop about bringing each part down to -inf db and gradually bringing them up one by one. I also revisited the filtering for each part - especially the saw which was occupying way too much of the high end. I automated the gain on a few things, especially trying to keep the saw from interfering with other parts. I also panned a handful of the parts to try to get a bit more clarity/separation. I actually put some of the flute, pluck, and piano parts from Short Hike on some really slow lfos so they kind of swirl around you as they fade in and out. Prophetik suggested sidechaining the kick - I actually had it suuuper sidechained in my first submission, which I think is why it seemed to kill everything else when it hit... I brought that down to a more reasonable level. Another issue mentioned was the runtime and abrupt ending. I'm glad you guys suggested fleshing it out more, I brought in a couple more sections from See You at the Top and I think it feels way more complete. Added bird sounds! The whippoorwill and owl you hear beginning around 2:08 are samples from Short Hike - you hear them when you boot the game and near the ending. I think they really help the listener feel like they're wandering along with the song in some magical woods or something XD. The guitar at 0:50 and the mandolin strums throughout are live recordings as well. Overall I wanted to convey the wonder of exploration I felt while playing A Short Hike mixed with the awe I felt when I heard OOT's title theme for the first time. Hope you guys like it! Source Breakdown: 0:00 - 0:17 Intro with Short Hike arp 0:18 - 0:49 Main section: Short Hike saw and Title Theme intertwined 0:50 - 1:16 B section of Title Theme with guitar and modified Short Hike saw to support 1:17 - 2:05 Main section again with more layers: piano, pluck, and flute fading in and out with Short Hike parts 2:06 - 3:15 Piano melody from Short Hike (beginning at 2:52 on the source video), this time with Title Theme's piano arps doing the support 3:16 - 3:33 Layers dropout, giving Title Theme's piano and string pad some space. There's also birds! 3:34 - 3:55 A different piano melody from Short Hike (0:37 on source video) building to climax 3:56 - 4:41 Climax/ending: main section with all layers Games & Sources This is a remix/mashup of Title Theme from Ocarina of Time and See You at the Top from A Short Hike. Edited July 27 by Hemophiliac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emunator Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 (edited) This really shows what a difference a proper mixdown can make. This addressed every single one of my issues with the original track, allowing the dynamics of your arrangement to shine and gives every instrument and synth a spot in the limelight. There's room to breathe now, and all of the delicate ebbs and flows that you crafted carry so much more impact. The arrangement is, and always has been, brilliant, and I'm so glad to see this back again. This is exactly how you do it, bravo! YES EDIT 7/2/2024: I'm reviewing this since my effusive praise seems to be at odds with the rest of the panel. I have since gone through a calibration process in my monitors to fix a bias towards low-frequency response and a deficient high-end, and honestly, a lot of the feedback you got here reflects critiques that have been (correctly) given about my own music, so I expected to hear a much different song when I listened to this on my new setup. And while I am hearing a much heavier amount of distortion on this track than I picked up on previously, I was actually really impressed with the amount of clarity that came through. I've listened a few times and am just not feeling the fatigue that the other judges are pointing out. And I also think that we're not giving this enough roses for how creative and well-executed the sound design and arrangement are. I came into this expecting to fall in line, but I still think this is pretty squarely in the YES camp for me. Edited July 2 by Emunator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 IMO, this is still lossy-sounding and lacks proper high-end sharpness/clarity. The fuzziness from 2:41 was intentional, yet still felt like soft, unwanted distortion that was cluttering up the soundscape. Wasn't a fan of the piano handling the OoT Title melody at 2:06, mainly because it sounded so close to the original music, it felt like it was sampling the original audio. Compositionally, by around 2:50, things were plodding and I was waiting for something else to develop. On the whole, the arrangement is on solid ground despite the meandering, but I'm not on board yet with this mixing. It'll come across as me disliking Everybody Man's track -- IMO, it's too boomy in the lows and the whole thing is too murky and indistinct, particularly from 2:24-on, enough so where I'm unfortunately going NO (resubmit) for the time being. If this makes it as is, I can understand that, however, I feel the production side merits one more pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 There's plenty of high-end clarity coming through for me; there is a ton of distortion and purposeful fuzziness, way too much for my liking, but it's a creative choice. I wouldn't call it lossy, but I definitely feel that the distortion and bitcrushing is totally overdone. The lows are rich and full, I'm checking on SPAN and I don't see any inaudible mud and I don't feel like it is boomy. The primary lead starting at 1:30 tends to be piercy, and also has a tremendous amount of distortion on it. I can only guess that this was done so it would cut through this distorted backing soundscape. The distortion is creating a wash over the soundscape that is grating after awhile. When the piano breakdown begins at 2:05, my ears get a break from the intense distortion. The piano does sound similar to the source tune, but it has been clearly recreated and fits into this soundscape really well, although it sounds blocky and lacks humanization, and it is way too loud. There are some nature sounds behind it that I can barely hear. I like this arrangement a lot actually, but it gets very repetitive after awhile with the same instruments and writing over and over. At 2:18 and again at 2:36 there is an awkward series of notes in the lead writing. I've listened to this several times in a row now, and I am getting a headache from this much distortion. I have to agree with Larry that it is too much. I also feel that the level of repetition of sounds and writing, combined with the arrangement having such long sections without developing very much, is also a dealbreaker for me. The arrangement is generally good and I like the mixture of the two themes, but in those long sections such as 1:17-2:06, and then from 2:06-3:16 it's just the same piano and lead motif over and over and over. Even though you have tons of other stuff coming and going, those sections feel sooooo long to me. Perhaps the repeated motifs wouldn't sound so repetitive to me if they were played with different lead instruments now and then, or with varied backing elements, new drum grooves/percussions/etc. and if the backing elements were less grating. At the minimum, the distortion overall has to be reduced. Also the track is mastered extremely loudly, the final limiter should not be pushed this hard. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I’m always attempting to give my best description of what I’m hearing, and hope it can provide some degree of worthwhile insight, but since Chimpa’s a mastering engineer and I’m not even a musician, I’ll almost always defer to her as far as articulating what’s potentially going on with a track. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 looks like a lot of changes since the last time! that's great to see. the opening 7/8 groove is still great for this to highlight the arps. there is indeed a lot of distortion throughout, and as a result the track uses a lot of the audible freq range (much more of the high end than we usually see) - there's significant presence through 7khz which is really significant. the lead in particularly is boosted a lot, and there's a big spike at about 520hz and the subsequent octave (1040hz) when the instrument is around that C# range. it pops out a lot from the texture. i think having the lead be so heavily distorted/crushed as well really is a bit too much, the high-end noise is very grating after a while. 1:17's a shift with some panning elements. i think the lead distortion is more noticeable here - there's some high-end ring that's making my eyeballs itch. i like the doubling you add at 1:50 or so, but maybe just because it's not a distorted lead? also around here i noticed that the backing elements are roughly the same for the entire track up to that point. so i was looking for a shift to mix it up, and then at 2:06 it drastically changes! so that's good. it'd be nice to have that be more of a transition that ties the two sections together instead of just using the same lead and drums. i like the pacing of this section after the consistent beat - it's nice to have some slowdown. also - even this section is slammed against the limiter! the whole track is so loud, and this is just piano and a few synths, it shouldn't feel so blown. literally the entire track needs to go down by 3db. there's just no room to breathe. there's some fun synths and lfos at 3:34 as a transitional element and then it's back to a fuller section at 3:53. i wish the bass was a bit different here, but the extra backing glam helps this be not quite copy/paste from 1:50. there's at least some of an ending this time, which is also good, and then it's done. this is still very loud, and it's very distorted to the detriment of the piece, i think. most of the middle, from 1:00 through 3:20 and then 3:50 to the end, is visibly jammed against the limiter still. it just feels fatiguing to listen to. lowering the overall volume of every element so that it's not constantly hitting the limiter is going to help a lot. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemophiliac Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 I did not hear the previous version so I'm coming in clean to this. There's a lot of good stuff going on it here, however; there are some things holding it back. The reverse guitar or mandolin as an intro was very cool. All of the background additions such as the piano and the arps are the real strengths of the piece. These additions really make it your own! The vibe is so cool and really drips of loving nostalgia. What is the biggest problem is the distortion, and it's prevalent throughout. Wither it's intentional or unintentional it's too much. Some of it is giving a lovely warmth to the track and gives a feeling of nostalgia, but there is too much and it's making it feel blown out. I'm not saying remove it, but rather reduce the amounts of distortion so it's not completely saturated with it. The low end is very muddy and is also contributing to the heavy distortion too. The boominess of the kick/bass just keeps smashing in more when it the track can only fit so much. More exaggerated humanization in the piano would also help to add to the nostalgia-vibe that you seem to be going for. As right now it's fairly blocky and the velocities are very similar from note-to-note aside from the rolls. Later on the track does have some meandering and noodling about, but this was not a breaking-point for me. This really has a lot of awesome potential, and right now it's close but it needs at least another look to deal with the wash of distortion. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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