On average how long does it take to be "good"

[L0rdOm3g4]

I've heard a lot of remixes, like Goat's "The sky was never the limit", amIevil's acoustics Jared Hudson's FF10, and of course, my personal favorite, Fleeting Escasty. But how long would it take complete n00b to make a song of his own?

And while I was listening to these songs, I've been able to conjur up great flash animations in my head, and plan to bring them to life. Do I need permission from the creator of the remix to use it in my flash or can I just go ahead and use it so long as I give credit where credit is due

[lazygecko]

6 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours and 33 seconds.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

how long would it take complete n00b to make a song of his own?

about 10 mins.

I think the question you are looking for has more to do with the =quality= of the song, though...in which case...eh, a long time (though not ridiculously long)

Do I need permission from the creator of the remix to use it in my flash or can I just go ahead and use it so long as I give credit where credit is due

IIRC, You can go ahead and use it as long as you give credit.

However, it's still a good idea just to try and let the creator know what you're doing with their work. it can't hurt, right?

[B33J]

Kinda depends on what program you use too. I found myself learning quicker with Reason.

I've seen quite a few people say they've been remixing and using their program for over a year, and they've got some really good stuff.

So like with any instrument, don't be overly in a hurry to learn it, take your time, and study about it's ins and outs as much as possible via books or online tutorials - what have you.

[Nicole Adams]

Kinda depends on what program you use too. I found myself learning quicker with Reason.

Ditto. I started with FL Studio, but didn't really feel motivated to make music using it. I switched to Reason back in '04 and fell completely in love with it. I'm not implying Reason is the way to go. Lots of great OCR musicians use FL Studio so try out some demo versions and determine which interface you prefer.

[Paladin]

Obviously you need a degree of musical knowledge to "make a song".

Therefore, if you are not musically trained in any way, you'd need to get to grips with the more theoretical aspects first (before you start colouring in random blocks and shit).

[OverCoat]

Three years on a rock, as they say.

[zircon]

Obviously you need a degree of musical knowledge to "make a song".

Therefore, if you are not musically trained in any way, you'd need to get to grips with the more theoretical aspects first (before you start colouring in random blocks and shit).

Wrong. Protricity was well known here for, among other things, knowing absolutely 0 about music. He did everything by ear. You don't need musical knowledge to make a good song, provided you have a good sense of what sounds good.

..and that being said, I do echo the recommendation of trying to learn more about music as you go along. I do however think it's silly to start with music theory (etc). The best way, imo, is to start with something easy to work into it - loop based composition for example, with a program like ACID or Magix Music Maker.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

Wrong. You don't need musical knowledge to make a good song, provided you have a good sense of what sounds good.

I'm going to guess that Xela considered having "a sense of what sounds good" as having "a degree of musical knowledge". Whatever.

Sometimes the easiest thing to do is just muck around. I do it on my piano all the time. Eventually you learn what tends to work and what doesn't work so you're not just slamming random notes. Knowing theory can -help- that process.

[Nicole Adams]

The best way, imo, is to start with something easy to work into it - loop based composition for example, with a program like ACID or Magix Music Maker.

Good point, Andy. Working with loops before anything else can potentially help when you move into sound design. By the time you do you'd probably feel pretty comfortable chopping loops to bits since you were "forced" to do so when you started out. (Example of this would be SGX.)

[Brain Cleaner]

Kinda depends on what program you use too. I found myself learning quicker with Reason.

I've seen quite a few people say they've been remixing and using their program for over a year, and they've got some really good stuff.

So like with any instrument, don't be overly in a hurry to learn it, take your time, and study about it's ins and outs as much as possible via books or online tutorials - what have you.

If you learn on Reason, it makes you a hell of a lot more knowledgeable in general, because of how it's set up. FruityLoops is set up so a chimp could use it, not so you actually learn something about mixing. Whether that's good or bad ultimately depends on your mix, in the end.

I always recommend starting on Reason, even if you don't decide to stick with it (I use Live), you'll have a really solid understanding of the fundamentals of music production, and it'll be easy to pick up any other software on the planet. FL also teaches horrendous sequencing/mixing/production habits, and actually makes it harder to switch off of it into more "standardized" software, like Logic, Pro Tools, Live, Sonar, Cubase, etc.

I'm also going to say that there's not some magic number which at that point you suddenly become good at mixing, but it'll probably take you at least a year or so before your stuff becomes reasonably good, at least mix-wise. Everything you mix early on sucks, I don't care what you think of it, it's a fact of life, and everybody else's does too. As you keep working on it, you'll end up learning what works and what doesn't, and (hopefully), your mixes will be more and more solid.

[Chrono86]

I've been working with FL for a long time and love it. I tried Reason first, and numerous times since, and I just can't use it. I find the piano roll incredibly difficult and awkward to use. It can produce some cool sounds but I just can't seem to find an easy way to use it.

[B33J]

One reason why I switched from FL to Reason in the begining was because I didn't know any terminology at all. I didn't know what "Dry/Wet mix" was or anything. Then I started using Reason, which has, I must say, a much more "common sense" method of designing sounds, using instruments and using effects. You can look at Reason and kind of understand what things do... So it really helps you get your fundamentals down.. Learning what a sequencer does and how it relates to the instruments, what the basic effects are and how to applicably use them, etc.

Now that I'm more comfortable with a few things of remixing (terminology, song progression, structure, sound levels, production, instruments, effects), I wouldn't mind trying out FL again.

Being "good" really really relies on your natural talent. Talent of knowing what sounds good where and what doesn't. Again, like what Zircon said, you don't have to have classical music knowledge to make good songs.. If ya got it, ya got it.. If ya don't...

[noTuX]

Wrong. Protricity was well known here for, among other things, knowing absolutely 0 about music. He did everything by ear. You don't need musical knowledge to make a good song, provided you have a good sense of what sounds good.

..and that being said, I do echo the recommendation of trying to learn more about music as you go along. I do however think it's silly to start with music theory (etc). The best way, imo, is to start with something easy to work into it - loop based composition for example, with a program like ACID or Magix Music Maker.

Ditto. Like I said on many occasions, I wouldn't know a C note, if it kicked me in the nuts. I've only taken two music classes in my lifetime, one being in elementary school, and the other was an "Enjoyment of Music" class in college.

You don't have to know alot about music to make a great song. Just do what sounds good to you, be open minded, and listen to, and apply, some of the comments given by others in the WIP forum. Also, always keep in mind the fact that you can't please everybody with your music.