Building my own music studio

[100_PERCENT ROEMER]

Hey guys, just looking for some input on a studio I'm working on building.

I've used fruityloops in the past, with no hardware interfaces. However, I recently acquired an excellent used Studiologic 88 key midi controller that feels almost like a piano, and as a pianist of 9 years, this is very important to me.

Anyways, that was the first piece of my studio, and I'm looking at other components to add to it.

I'm trying to graduate from fruityloops to a more powerful program that can handle composing both electronic music and recording classical pieces of music. Fortunately, I have an account with JourneyEd which would allow me to get an Mbox 2 (with Protools LE) for $350 with additional bonus programs as well, which is much cheaper than the retail price. I’ve never worked with Protools personally, but I understand that it is an exceptionally powerful program.

In addition, I've been looking at the Korg PadKontrol as an additional midi input device as well as a way to add an effects pedal to the chain of devices. That way I would be able to play the 88 key midi piano, use an assignable effects pedal while I play it, and develop drumbeats on the PadKontrol simultaneously.

I’m needing a nice set of monitors as well. Nothing too fancy, and I don’t need anything that supports a terribly high volume setting, I just need something with a nice clear sound and flat eq. I’ve been looking at the KRK Rokit 5’s and the Samson 65a’s, but anything between $200 and $300 that is good quality is fine.

So basically, my theoretical setup consists of:

Studiologic 88 key midi controller

Korg PadKontrol drumpad

Mbox 2 with Protools LE

A set of monitors: (Rokit 5’s, or Samson 65a’s).

All my samples and synthesizing would be softsynth via Protools, so my computer would be the primary workhorse in the setup since the only information my interfaces would be transferring would be midi. Hopefully that won’t be a problem considering I have an AMD X2 3800 and 2 gigs of OCZ Platinum RAM. I would be getting a second harddrive as well that would be dedicated to my music production.

Now then, the only real concern I have is that the Mbox 2 only has 16 midi channels, and that considering the PadKontrol supports 16 assignable midi channels, and the midi controller would take another, is that I would simply run out of midi channels to work with. I suppose I could just leave one of the channels on the PadKontrol blank, but I’m not sure if the x-y pad and the various dials and slides on the drumpad would take up additional midi channels as well.

I also want to make sure that the pedal that I would attach to the PadKontrol to add effects would actually work like a real effects pedal. Considering that the Piano transmits midi data to the PadKontrol, and then the PadKontrol transmits to the Mbox, and then the Mbox transmits to the monitors and the computer, I think it should work out but clarification would be nicely.

I’m new to this whole music hardware thing, considering the only hardware I’ve ever worked with is an acoustic piano, heh heh. My max budget for this whole thing is $1500 by the way, and I’m already $300 in.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

[zircon]

I really really would not go with ProTools here. It sounds like you're primarily doing MIDI stuff. I recommend either reconsidering FL (as it is excellent for MIDI, particularly with the upcoming version then checking out the demos of:

* Sonar 7

* Cubase 4

* Live 6

* Reason 4

See which you like the most based on that. I would also recommend you get a decent pair of headphones along with your monitors (the KRK ones are excellent), unless you are really confident about the acoustic treatment of your room and the placement of your monitors.

Since you won't be needing PT, I recommend a solid $100-200 interface or soundcard - check my thread in the Guides & Tutorials forum on the topic for details. EMU 0404 is a solid bet for PCI.

[The Pezman]

I agree 110% with Andy here. PROTOOLS BAD. It's large, clunky, overpriced, and the M-box never seems to work consistently. Just because it was the industry standard (note past tense... I see Logic, Digital Performer and Sonar more often nowadays) doesn't mean its automatically the way to go. And even people who use it don't always like it. It's the industry trap: they have to because everyone else does.

I recommend either reconsidering FL (as it is excellent for MIDI, particularly with the upcoming version 8 )

ZOMG VERSION 8!

When's it coming?

then checking out the demos of:

* Sonar 7

* Cubase 4

* Live 6

* Reason 4

Well, actually Reason doesn't do recording, and I'm not sure about Live either. Either of the former two should be fine for recording though.

[zircon]

Reason will record MIDI though - I didn't see him saying anywhere that he was doing recording of, say, guitar + vocals...

[100_PERCENT ROEMER]

Alrighty, if I were to go with the newer fruityloops, what soundlibraries would be good to get? I need something with as realistic a piano sound as possible, as well as a myriad of good electronic samples.

My needs are a little odd in this regard, since I'm going to continue playing my classical piano music and recording it, as well as branching off and composing electronic music (Goa/Psychedelic Trance and the like).

Any input on the Korg PadKontrol?

EDIT: For clarification, I would not be recording any acoustic instruments, but I may consider recording vocals via a microphone at some point. Currently, recording live instruments is not a priority though, as I'm focusing primarily on midi data transfer.

Also, if I was to get a soundcard instead of a hardware interface, would I just plug the midi chain and monitors directly into the soundcard?

[Lunahorum]

there's a free giga studio piano vst floating around in one of these threads. It's good Some kid thought I had a grand piano in my dorm room lol.

[dannthr]

I need something with as realistic a piano sound as possible

That is a tall order. You're not just asking for a passable piano sound, you want the absolute most realistic (without actually owning a real piano--I assume that's the ommitted ending of this clause).

At the moment, this guy is one of the top contenders:

Galaxy II Grand Piano Collection

It comes in three flavors:

Steinway D

96 Key Bosendorfer (that's a monster)

Vintage Bluethner (of the demos, this is my favorite, and if they offered this piano at 1/3 of the price of the whole package, it'd be in my hands right now)

For a classical pianist, I doubt you'd ask for much more.

When you get really insane you can look at Quantum Leap Pianos when it releases (insane, obscene library sizes--about 30GB per Piano). What's interesting about the approach they claim to have used for QL Pianos (which isn't out and no demos currently exist save for an obscure MusikMesse video) is one which senses real-time repetitions to properly or realistically simulate the hammer being stopped before it goes all the way back.

They're definitely trying hard to create an "as realistic as possible" piano experience--though I wonder if it's worth the trouble... probably.

EDIT: oops, under estimated their library size--60GB per piano--that's enough to make your head explode twice!

[Sixto]

NI's Akoustik Piano is good. 4 pianos in an 11.3 gig library and sounds great. And, yeah, forget about ProTools. Get something like a PreSonus Firebox which comes with Cubase LE and some other free goodies. As far as the electronic stuff goes, look into NI's stuff. They have a bunch of great synths. Maybe get their Komplete Synths package. Comes with Massive, Absynth 4, FM8, and Pro53 at a pretty good price. http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=kompletesynths

[100_PERCENT ROEMER]

Impressive piano libraries to say the least, although adding that onto what I need to get already would probably send me out of my budget range.

Any good piano libraries for around $100? I remember M-audio released one awhile back, although I have no idea about the quality of it.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the PadKontrol comes with the following programs:

• "Live Lite 6 Korg Edition"

• "SampleTank 2 Korg Edition"

• "UVI Korg Edition"

• "Reason Adapted 3.0 for Korg"

• "MDE-X"

Any of those comparable to FL Studio? If I can use one of those instead of buying a new version of FL that would help out a lot.

[dannthr]

PMI's Black Grand retails at $140 which is a pretty fair offering--they sell a Close Mic'd Version for $50 which isn't bad if you have some convolution/IR to work with... it could be quite convincing.

Similarly, they have a Medium distanced mic version for the same price.

[tweex]

it was the industry standard (note past tense... I see Logic, Digital Performer and Sonar more often nowadays

I beg you to try and prove this with credible sources.

Well, actually Reason doesn't do recording, and I'm not sure about Live either.

Once again, do your reserch before you give advice.

Yes, Live does record aucoustic instuments. It is also VST compatible and is a very good program all around.

Several mixers on the site (including your truly) uses it.

EDIT: Live Lite 6 and Reason Adapted 3 are much smaller versions of the full program. You will be severely limited in what you can do in those versions. I recomend trying the lite/adapted version (if you can get them for free) and then purchase the one you like. Not to mention also that Reason 4 came out not too long ago and it made some vast improvements over Reason 3.

[SnappleMan]

If you want a non-compromising piano library, then you need to get Synthology's Ivory Grand Piano, it's about 10gb in size and absolutely authentic. If you don't have the 10gb of space to dedicate to one library, get Steinberg's The Grand 2, it's the one I use and it sounds fantastic.

EDIT - No, sorry, Ivory is closer to about 30 or 40gb. 10DVDs...

[zircon]

For good electronic samples in FL... can you be more specific? You may simply want a large collection of sounds like IK Multimedia Sampletank 2 XL, Sonik Synth 2, or Quantum Leap Colossus. These all will give you a wide variety of sounds in many categories.

Any input on the Korg PadKontrol?

AnotherSoundscape speaks highly of it. Seems nice.

[100_PERCENT ROEMER]

With these piano libraries ranging up into the 30 gig range, will FL really be able to handle something like that? I've never worked with any libraries that large before, nor have I ever done midi with FL, so I'm clueless in that regard.

Also, would the EMU 0404 work as a soundcard as well? Or would I have to use my current soundcard? I have an Audigy 2 ZS, which is decent but I would be looking to upgrade to something else if this is the case.

As for electronic sounds, something in the range of Goa Trance with lots of room for tweaking and modifying.

[SnappleMan]

Well, for what you want to do, upgrading soundcards is a must. You'll need some consultation on the matter, to see exactly what you need and all that stuff.

On the FL+large library matter, I think it should support any sized library just fine. All that it needs is to support VST, once the plugin is loaded, it should take over the job of loading and managing samples.

[100_PERCENT ROEMER]

I forgot to ask, since the 88 key is transmitting midi to the PadKontrol, and the PadKontrol is connected to the computer via USB or midi, would there be any loss in quality if I went with USB and would I still have to get a card like the EMU 0404?

The PadKontrol doesn't come with an AC adapter, and I don't know where I might find one. I know it will power itself through USB, but I don't know if it can power itself through midi.

[Zephyr]

I'd say USB is even preferable, most midi devices use it nowadays. Go with USB, it's easier, more convenient, and no need for an adapter. You may still want the soundcard for just plain production reasons. I'd also recommend that you reconsider FL studio, it handles midi great and almost every know, slider, or just any sort of parameter can be instantly linked to a midi controller.

[zircon]

Silver, remind me why you can't just use both your keyboard AND the padkontrol as USB? Two separate devices, why do you need to route them together?

The EMU 0404 is something you need to have, simply for having good ASIO drivers. It's cheap and worthwhile.

[SnappleMan]

I still prefer MIDI to USB, I always seem to get tiny bits of lag when using USB.

[100_PERCENT ROEMER]

Silver, remind me why you can't just use both your keyboard AND the padkontrol as USB? Two separate devices, why do you need to route them together?

The EMU 0404 is something you need to have, simply for having good ASIO drivers. It's cheap and worthwhile.

The keyboard only has midi out. It's an older midi controller, but the key action is absolutely amazing. Therefore, I would have to have the midi out from the keyboard go into the PadKontrol's midi in. From there I suppose I could either use USB or midi to connect to my computer.

Also, combining the keyboard and PadKontrol would let me use the Pad as a way to manipulate the notes coming from the keyboard with an assignable effects pedal as well as with the various knobs and x-y pad the PadKontrol has. Or at least, that's how I understand it to work.

If I get the EMU 0404, would that work as a sound card as well? Would I be able to plug my monitors into it too?

Oh yeah, which has better audio quality when dealing with monitors: An XLR or a 1/4'' input?

I'm thinking I'll just stick with FL. I'm familiar with it and I'm going to be working primarily with midi anyway. I'll definitely have to upgrade though, as I'm working with FL 6.

[Harmony]

Silver, remind me why you can't just use both your keyboard AND the padkontrol as USB? Two separate devices, why do you need to route them together?

The keyboard only has midi out. It's an older midi controller, but the key action is absolutely amazing. Therefore, I would have to have the midi out from the keyboard go into the PadKontrol's midi in. From there I suppose I could either use USB or midi to connect to my computer.

I think what's being said is that you don't have to connect the midi controller to the korg just because it only has a midi out. I would think that chaining them like that could create unnecessary headaches. If you get the EMU 0404 you can connect the midi out of the studiologic 88 to the midi in of the 0404, and the Korg can be connected via usb. Even without the EMU 0404, you can buy a midi to usb converter and connect the keyboard to usb that way.

Also, combining the keyboard and PadKontrol would let me use the Pad as a way to manipulate the notes coming from the keyboard with an assignable effects pedal as well as with the various knobs and x-y pad the PadKontrol has. Or at least, that's how I understand it to work.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm understanding you correctly, that setup wouldn't work the way you're thinking. Yes, the PadKontrol can be used to manipulate the sound, but only after the midi data from the keyboard has gone through your soundcard (the EMU 0404 for example). So, linking the two devices really wouldn't matter as far as most fx are concerned. If your goal is to be able to play the keyboard and manipulate its sound via effects pedals (I'm assuming you mean audio fx pedals like those used for electric guitar, not midi fx pedals like the sustain pedal) then the keyboard midi still has to go through the soundcard, but you could set up what are called "effects inserts" by properly connecting the pedal to the in/out of your sound card. I'm pretty sure the EMU 0404 can be setup to handle effects inserts. I'm no expert so maybe there is a way to do it the way you suggested, I just don't see it.

If I get the EMU 0404, would that work as a sound card as well? Would I be able to plug my monitors into it too?

Yes and yes. The EMU 0404 is a soundcard

[100_PERCENT ROEMER]

Ah, thanks Harmony. You cleared up a lot of things for me.

Yes, my ultimate goal is to use the PadKontrol to create a drumline, then use the keyboard for the bassline and main melody, and then use the PadKontrol again to add effects to the piece via the assignable knobs, x-y pad, and midi pedal input. Being able to use a guitar effects pedal would be cool as well, but if I could simply assign the midi pedal to an effect that would be preferable (and less expensive).

I'm essentially building a setup that would allow me to improvise music on the fly as best as possible by allowing me to layer musical phrases on top of eachother, since I work best in that manner.

So, looks like I'll be needing an EMU 0404, PadKontrol, a new version of FL and libraries to go with it, and a nice set of monitors. Looks like I'll be able to stay under budget with that setup too, which is a big relief