OCR Genres!

[DarkeSword]

I disagree. I've expanded my musical tastes a great deal since first coming to OCRemix. I wouldn't have, for example, tried any of zircon's non-remix music if I hadn't heard and liked his remixes first, despite none of them being able to be classified in any genre I'd have been interested in previously.

The biggest problem with both genres and ratings is that they act as a negative filter, and I suspect more people will see it this way than ans a positive filter. How many people are likely to search for, say, jazz remixes but will actually end up listening to all of them? Perhaps for those who have been around the community long enough to hear all the mixes, being able to filter out songs that aren't of a specific genre might be great if you're only in a mood to hear jazz on a given day, but for someone who's relatively new to the site, I strongly suspect the tendency will be to say "I like jazz, let me see what OCRemix has", which is fine on its own, but when it's not accompanied by a followup "now that I've heard all the jazz, I'll listen to everything else too", listeners miss out on a lot that they might like if they were to hear it. I'd call this a bad thing.

And even listening to music you don't like once or twice is still good, as it reinforces your idea of what you do like. Exposure to all kinds of music isn't a bad thing, and genres will likely limit that for most new listeners.

Which is exactly why we don't do it here.

But having an outside tool that we can mention when the question comes up is nice to have, because the question DOES come up (vocal mixes, piano mixes, etc. etc.).

Personally I'd prefer it if the word genre wasn't used, as it implies classification, rather than description. I think something like OCR Tagged would be better, because the term tag implies limitless descriptors, rather than pidgeon-holed classification. That way we can tag stuff with like "violins" or "4-on-the-floor" instead of "Orchestral" and "Techno."

But hey, I'm not programming it, so whatev.

[abg]

I see where you're coming from, Kanthos, but please hear me out. From the looks of this thread (and others I've read) a lot of people came here looking for remixes of songs from a certain game, and after exhausting what OCR had to offer for that game, were satisfied and done with this site. But then later, they came back, because they were curious what else OCR had to offer. Now, if stories like that are actually commonplace, that would imply that 1) New users come here looking for something specific that they think they'll like, and 2) Once they hear some remixes they like, they're more likely to be repeat users.

So, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a new user might, instead of coming here looking for a remix from a specific game, come looking for a genre specific remix. Now, as it is right now on OCR in particular, if you want to find a remix that fits into a genre you like, you have to read djP's paragraph or two of text and figure it out for yourself. That's asking a lot when you just want to know "does it go unts?"

Now, the way I always figured the internet was meant to work, the user is supposed to be directed as quickly as possible to content they want. But what I'm seeing here is resistance to that. Actually, what I'm seeing from most people who are neg on the genres is the desire to force the user's hand, to tell them "Listen to everything!" But you can't do that! At least, not effectively. The user is going to do whatever they want, and if they end up listening to a remix they don't like, they're suddenly pretty likely to decide "This website is a waste of my time", instead of "Hey, this track was cool, I should see what else this site has to offer."

I guess I'm saying that, for the sake of new users, genres should be built in to OCR (which I realize probably ain't gonna happen), but as for the OCR Genres page/resource, I think it's a great idea

[Radiowar]

The biggest problem with games is that they act as a negative filter, and I suspect more people will see it this way than ans a positive filter. How many people are likely to search for, say, Zelda remixes but will actually end up listening to all of them? Perhaps for those who have been around the community long enough to hear all the mixes, being able to filter out songs that aren't of a specific genre might be great if you're only in a mood to hear Zelda on a given day, but for someone who's relatively new to the site, I strongly suspect the tendency will be to say "I like Zelda, let me see what OCRemix has", which is fine on its own, but when it's not accompanied by a followup "now that I've heard all the Zelda, I'll listen to everything else too", listeners miss out on a lot that they might like if they were to hear it. I'd call this a bad thing.

..........

[LuigiFan]

I see where you're coming from, Kanthos, but please hear me out. From the looks of this thread (and others I've read) a lot of people came here looking for remixes of songs from a certain game, and after exhausting what OCR had to offer for that game, were satisfied and done with this site. But then later, they came back, because they were curious what else OCR had to offer. Now, if stories like that are actually commonplace, that would imply that 1) New users come here looking for something specific that they think they'll like, and 2) Once they hear some remixes they like, they're more likely to be repeat users.

So, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a new user might, instead of coming here looking for a remix from a specific game, come looking for a genre specific remix. Now, as it is right now on OCR in particular, if you want to find a remix that fits into a genre you like, you have to read djP's paragraph or two of text and figure it out for yourself. That's asking a lot when you just want to know "does it go unts?"

Now, the way I always figured the internet was meant to work, the user is supposed to be directed as quickly as possible to content they want. But what I'm seeing here is resistance to that. Actually, what I'm seeing from most people who are neg on the genres is the desire to force the user's hand, to tell them "Listen to everything!" But you can't do that! At least, not effectively. The user is going to do whatever they want, and if they end up listening to a remix they don't like, they're suddenly pretty likely to decide "This website is a waste of my time", instead of "Hey, this track was cool, I should see what else this site has to offer."

I guess I'm saying that, for the sake of new users, genres should be built in to OCR (which I realize probably ain't gonna happen), but as for the OCR Genres page/resource, I think it's a great idea

This post is WIN!

[Kanthos]

Fair enough. I'm not saying that this shouldn't be done, especially as a third-party thing (although I do especially like darkesword's idea of making it a generic tagging system as opposed to something specifically indicating genre; if nothing else, it's more useful that way with not significantly more coding). I was, however, saying that it's not exactly accurate to say that it's *only* a good thing

[Joshua Morse]

Personally I'd prefer it if the word genre wasn't used, as it implies classification, rather than description. I think something like OCR Tagged would be better, because the term tag implies limitless descriptors, rather than pidgeon-holed classification. That way we can tag stuff with like "violins" or "4-on-the-floor" instead of "Orchestral" and "Techno."

I've been in the process of developing some stuff that meets you halfway on this. I previously had the thought of changing the name to OCR Tags, which I plan on doing in the near future. As of right now, I'm going to keep the genres, however, I've implemented an 'additional elements' feature with tag options like 'live guitar', 'live vocals', etc.

On a side note, I've given users who've registered the ability to tag remixes themselves.

[Skummel Maske]

That's pretty nifty. I'd love to be able to search for e.g. guitar-driven tracks to see how others have solved x, arranged the instruments against each others, or just to explore the different users' guitar sounds.

[Imagist]

I really like the idea of tags, even in the context of genres. Since pretty much no song ever fits squarely into one genre, as the epitomal and exclusive example of said genre, it would make sense to allow people to tag songs with multiple genres, and that end users could then come to expect that each song has some elements of each genre within it. I think if you want to compromise the ideas of genres and tags, that would be the way to do it.

[Joshua Morse]

I really like the idea of tags, even in the context of genres. Since pretty much no song ever fits squarely into one genre, as the epitomal and exclusive example of said genre, it would make sense to allow people to tag songs with multiple genres, and that end users could then come to expect that each song has some elements of each genre within it. I think if you want to compromise the ideas of genres and tags, that would be the way to do it.

Agreed. However, this project is going to take forever to go anywhere if I'm the only one tagging mixes! So if any of you support this idea, don't hesitate to start tagging!