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Songs 1/8th of a tone out


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#1 AngelCityOutlaw

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:20 PM

Several songs I've been playing, older songs from the early 90s, always seemed to sound a little off. By pitch shifting them and playing along, I've discovered that they are all an 1/8 of a tone higher than the key of the song.

Some examples:
Naughty Naughty by Danger Danger

Bloody Tears & Cross A Fear by Naoto Shibata Project.

Why?

#2 Flexstyle

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:42 PM

A guess off the top of my head would be that the tape used for mixdown was played back a little faster than it should have been when creating the digital master. That's just an educated guess, though.

#3 SonicThHedgog

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:24 AM

What flex said is what I remeber tellin yah awhile ago. but a bit more. (Maybe i said somthing on reel speeds or somthing, I dont know...)

But why is 1/8 up pitch a important factor? I mean unless its for learning purposes.
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#4 AngelCityOutlaw

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:11 AM

What flex said is what I remeber tellin yah awhile ago. but a bit more. (Maybe i said somthing on reel speeds or somthing, I dont know...)

But why is 1/8 up pitch a important factor? I mean unless its for learning purposes.


Did I ask you before? I don't remember.


An 1/8 of a pitch is important because if your guitar is an 8th or god forbid a 1/4 off, you're not really in tune.

#5 SonicThHedgog

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:18 AM

Did I ask you before? I don't remember.


An 1/8 of a pitch is important because if your guitar is an 8th or god forbid a 1/4 off, you're not really in tune.

yah awhile ago.
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#6 Metal Man

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:20 AM

I'd say the tape playback but if it's the same on CDs well;
It could be tuning... Maybe they tuned to 442hz ?

I tuned to 432hz for some acoustic tunes resulting in 1/3 of a tone lower.

#7 SonicThHedgog

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:31 AM

I'd say the tape playback but if it's the same on CDs well;
It could be tuning... Maybe they tuned to 442hz ?

I tuned to 432hz for some acoustic tunes resulting in 1/3 of a tone lower.

442hz is "A 4" yes? I thought it was 440..... man screw it, I got a chart for it..... and everything else I dont feel like I seriously need to engrave in my memory.
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#8 dannthr

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:43 AM

The choice to have A = 440hz is really just an arbitrary one and also one that is highly variable both by region and choice. (In fact even defining it by frequency like that is something from the last 100 years or so).

If you're recording with an Eastern European orchestra, you will indicate to them how you want your tuning--or they will indicate to you what their tuning is and you will have to compensate on whatever accompanying tracks or synths you might be mixing with later on.


The Western Scale as a relative relationship between pitches is not arbitrary, which frequency you start your pitch on IS arbitrary and not universal by a margin.
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#9 SonicThHedgog

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:06 AM

The choice to have A = 440hz is really just an arbitrary one and also one that is highly variable both by region and choice. (In fact even defining it by frequency like that is something from the last 100 years or so).

If you're recording with an Eastern European orchestra, you will indicate to them how you want your tuning--or they will indicate to you what their tuning is and you will have to compensate on whatever accompanying tracks or synths you might be mixing with later on.


The Western Scale as a relative relationship between pitches is not arbitrary, which frequency you start your pitch on IS arbitrary and not universal by a margin.


Alright, that clears a bit up on what I was thinking. big thanks!
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#10 Flexstyle

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:10 PM

Keep in mind that in the past, nearly everyone recorded to 2" tape. We didn't always have Pro Tools, y'know! A lot of artists still record this way even today. So, they could have recorded the tape at one speed, then played back at a slightly different speed when mixing, and then sent that mixed-down version to another tape for mastering, which was then played back at another speed . . . you get the picture.

#11 AngelCityOutlaw

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:50 PM

Keep in mind that in the past, nearly everyone recorded to 2" tape. We didn't always have Pro Tools, y'know! A lot of artists still record this way even today. So, they could have recorded the tape at one speed, then played back at a slightly different speed when mixing, and then sent that mixed-down version to another tape for mastering, which was then played back at another speed . . . you get the picture.


Well, as far as I know, these Castlevania albums are all CD. But only a few tunes are 1/8 off.

Would they have still recorded to tape if they were releasing the albums only on CD?

#12 Flexstyle

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:39 PM

Quite likely, depending on when they were actually recorded. Remember, I'm not talking about cassette tapes. I'm talking about big, massive reels of tape, the sort that gets used in recording studios all over the world to this day. Heck, I'd bounce some of my tracks to tape if I had the money. Sound is much warmer and has much more character than digital recording.

#13 anterroir

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:09 PM

Quite likely, depending on when they were actually recorded. Remember, I'm not talking about cassette tapes. I'm talking about big, massive reels of tape, the sort that gets used in recording studios all over the world to this day. Heck, I'd bounce some of my tracks to tape if I had the money. Sound is much warmer and has much more character than digital recording.


Jupp - recorded to tape to get more saturation, a gluier mixdown, better transient shaping. There are a lot of reasons still to get the mixdown on tape (if you got the money and time for doing that - just google Studer or ReVox)

Lets take a grab into the myth box:
A prime example for a Master pitchown would be Kashmir from Led Zepplin -where they slowed the master tape down by accident and thought it sounded cool afterwards. Just tune your guitar to DADGAD and try to play along - still doesn't fit ;)
AC/DC recorded the drums for Back in Black on tape and played them slowed down a bit for more punch and deepness/impact.

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As for Video Games - old consoles like SNES, Mega Drive, ... you have to take the Pal (50 Hz)/ Ntsc (60 Hz) dilemma into account.

The Pal Versions of those games run at a slower speed and sometimes the bgm music is also affected in speed/pitch. Just load up an emulator and Try playing the Us Version of StarFox and afterwards the European one. It's like someone pressed the slow mo key.




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