Liontamer   Judges ⚖️

Frankly, I'm not saying this was a superlative remix. But taking into account all of the areas of contention people had, as well as myself being called out for not voting along the guidelines/standards here, I felt I had to respond to them in the attempt to flesh out my vote for everyone. In terms of the production, I felt it was lacking and could have been improved, but was passable. Vigilante complained that the track was missing sounds from the low end and that the guitars didn't sound clear enough, and by extension emotive enough, due to the mic-ing and mastering. After listening several more times with Vig's encouragement, I nonetheless continue to feel that the recording/production was passable, if only barely, like Danny B also said despite his NO. I felt that the delivery here was not too flat and that the rhythms here were fairly emotive and spirited, especially once things particularly picked up at 2:04 with the segue into the second half. I did agree with Vig thought that more panning or separation of sounds would have helped distinguish the two guitar tracks more during the second-half improv section, but didn't feel that the weakness of the recording was poor enough to push this down into the NO category. In terms of the ending with the THUMP at the end, I don't have a problem with it in principle, as others have used it as an ending, but for this track specifically, the ending comes off as poor, abrupt, and unresolved. There was a last note that should have faded down at 3:18 instead of the thump. I agreed with most of the panel who docked the mix some points for that. In terms of the performance, I am not a meticulous guitar expert and admittedly have lower/not as strict standards on performance, as any mistakes will inherently be more glaring and aggravating to the guitarists of the group. At the same time though, I definitely did not disregard any mistakes I heard. Danny B was particularly put off by the performance, with things being heard from him such as off-notes, timing issues, and badly buzzing strings due to poor fret pressure (I believe 1:15 is an example of that). I heard the flub at 1:15, but, other than the end (THUMP), I didn't notice that there were many other issues/gaffes that jarringly (rather than minorly) impacted the performance. Whether or not OCR currently has a "good enough" bar set for these types of pieces is a bigger issue, but ultimately I go by what I hear and how well I feel that was executed. So when you ask me if the delivery on the guitar was satisfactory based on the standards we've had for live guitar pieces, I say yes. Like Vigilante also said despite his NO, I felt the performance was passable. In terms of the arrangement, I felt this was extremely conservative when dealing with the source material, but was still serviceable as simply the first half of a larger idea for the track. As I said in conversation on this, if this was simply a 3:30 track with this cover motif as the whole thing, it would not pass; however it has the second half to expand upon the tone of the first half, which does its part to save the track. As I also said in conversation on this, if this was simply a 3:30 track with this original motif as the whole thing, it would not pass; however it has the first half to provide the arranged content, which does its part to save the track. Both halves needed to be there in order for this mix attempt to actually click with me. Despite the style overhaul of the second half, I felt the use of the same instruments and similar chords throughout the mix did well to preserve the tone established in the first half, making the thematic connection of the two halves very natural-sounding to me, unlike how many of the others felt. In terms of the guidelines... ...I felt this did an adequate job (and I stress merely adequate because my vote was borderline) changing the source tune's genre through altering aspects such as the instrumentation, dynamics and tempo through this straightforward yet nuanced guitar arrangement as well as the addition of the all-original second half that substantially expanded upon the motifs of the first half’s source material. For me, these were all alterations and additions that worked in conjunction in a satisfactory way. Along with my belief that the production was reasonably serviceable enough and that the delivery on the guitar work was flawed yet ultimately strong enough, all of those factors are what led me to YES this submission for its relative quality as well as on the basis of adhering to OCR’s guidelines.I think the important point with a piece like this that was borderline or at least genuinely arguable on several levels is that no one should judge this in too declarative a manner, which I honestly felt Protricity was doing in our various panel discussions (and to a lesser extent Danny B before he & I calmed down and tried to break things down referring to the actual guidelines). As a group, we should generally respect the votes of other panelists in regards to whether or not they voted in deference to OCR’s submission guidelines and our general standards. Despite the common desire for rigid, uniform standards that would somehow be "easier" to enforce, they are an impossibility in a reality where music can be executed in so many different ways and the judges themselves do not necessarily have uniform beliefs when interpreting a common set of standards. I feel that the best we can do as judges when we run into debates on these issues is to remain receptive and amicable to debate, discussion, and the opinions of those whom you disagree with, even those you markedly disagree with. When I make nearly any vote, I cast my vote only for the mix in front of me, as I think that’s to OCR’s primary benefit, and not on the potential impact of the decision for OCR as a whole, as that could bias a vote just as much as YESing a mix by a friend without the track being good enough, or being afraid to NO a submission due to potential artist or community backlash. All in all though, I wholeheartedly approve this NO from the panel, because while I don't believe this submission was a violation, passing it also would have set a bad precedent for OCR by potentially encouraging other hopefuls to copy this unorthodox (and frankly iffy) formula, yet not be nearly as successful with it.

Tonight is VGF #23 from 1 - 3:50 PM EST, so head over to Ormgas to check it out and follow along with the playlist. Join us in #ormgas on IRC/EntertheGame (irc://irc.enterthegame.com/ormgas) to chat it up. Good way for me to recycle the previous message. Bitch.

I didn't know Double A's grandma liked my radio show. It attracts all types. Glad she enjoys it, Aaron. Yeah, as far as rearrangements go, AB's was by far the most impressive to me on Kong in Concert. As a mere listener, I enjoy Prophecy's the most, but Adhesive Boy's relatively few and far between remixes have all been unorthodox rearrangement ideas along with great execution. Pretty unique sounds compared to what else is available here at OC, and just amazing work overall.

http://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/packs2/FF7_psf.rar - 402 Weapon Raid Like I said earlier, I apologize for having a lower bar than Danny and Jared Hudson, but I believe this is capable-enough orchestration work for our site standards. The source theme was rearranged and handled quite well (along with references to other themes), despite this remix being in a somewhat similar musical style to the original. Lots of good support instrument ideas made for creative additions I heard compared with the original, and I felt the "Weapon Raid" theme itself was altered pretty well. I'm not sure why anyone would potentially cry foul on the rearrangement. The source theme is 1:16 long and this mix doesn't seem to use the verbatim source structure as a crutch at all. Unless I somehow have the wrong theme, it's a fine medley piece. If I have the wrong theme from the PSF pack, let me know. Some of the brass sampling was handled very poorly, and, dynamically speaking, I thought this was relatively flat and needed a lot more contrast in instrument intensities and so forth. But again, this was at least capable orchestration and rearrangement work to me, and I had no big problems with it on that level. The arrangement made up for a relatively weaker use of quality samples. YES

Cool ideas, Steve. I liked the piano coming in at :18, but the snapping percussion is a bit too loud over this in the long-run. There's actually some charm in the light cymbal work being so audible, so while the snaps would sound better at a lower volume, I like the notable presence of the percussion in your ear. 1:16 sounds vaguely reminiscent of Quinn Fox's style. The move into the freestyle section at 1:54 really does come across as having no structure or thematic connection with the style of the source arrangement. Prot was right in that the bass was way too loud; this was particularly glaring to me from 1:54-2:31; the bass sample was terribly exposed at that point. The move back into Zangief's theme at 2:34 was abrupt and forced. There also wasn't development shown from 2:34-3:11 given that this groove was already established verbatim earlier in the mix. The transition into 3:50 for your finish also sounded wrong to me; also very abrupt and "I give up"-ish. Needs more variation with the percussion patterns and light piano strikes, more fleshed-out ideas with the freeform stuff, some real transitions; spice it up and give the solos more cohesion; the foundations here are good but this needs more work to realize this idea's potential. NO (refine & resubmit)

Submitted back in March, this definitely FT'ed. Like I just told Lee, and after hearing it again, I thought there were some muddy parts, mostly percussion, that would have sounded better with sharper mixing (generally liked the reverb though), and I believe from my quick listen that the second half was repetitive and lacked development. I'll do a more thorough look and vote later, but those were my initial thoughts. EDIT: I heard clicks & pops all throughout the intro (:01, :07, :09, :14, :15, :16). Otherwise though, the intro was well-textured. As soon as the melody and bassline came in at :57 though, the weakness of the production really stuck out. There seems to be an overall lack of sharpness or punch in the sounds. Even with well-thought out ideas, like 2:15 when you had the arpeggiated synth support come in along with more snap on the percussion, the production really prevented things from having any big impact. As you segued into 2:54, I felt the mix was basically retreading the ideas already presented without enough other things that would have kept the mix fresh, such as an instrument change or further alterations of the source tune arrangement. The layering of the source melody and the countermelody side-by-side at 3:32 was a good idea, but ultimately didn't feel like significant development. If you're willing to still look at this one, Lee, I'd suggest working to present some new ideas in the last minute for a more varied/satisfying close, as well as sharpening things up with the mixing. I like the ideas here, but the production and last minute need refinement. NO

Thanks a lot to ravon, w-ber & my fellow bros over at Ormgas.com for adding VG Frequency over to the regular rotation of OC ReMixes over at Ormgas. Starting tonight, you'll be able to hear a re-run episode of VGF at Ormgas, which is about every 3 days or so. Keep an eye out for 'em. Tonight is VGF #22 from 7:15 PM-10:15 PM EST, so head over to Ormgas to check it out and follow along with the playlist. Join us in #ormgas on IRC/EntertheGame (irc://irc.enterthegame.com/ormgas) to chat it up.

I agree with Ari on both points. Certainly flesh out the votes on mixes that are disputed. "It's too weird for the public" doesn't work. In any case, while I'm a legit fan of Sam's work, I definitely felt this was way below the bar as opposed to borderline. I'm no production whore, but I'll admit, like Prot, I'm surprised this passed given how flat the delivery on this was, and though likely intentional, I didn't feel as though it was a positive contribution for the mix. I think if we got a resubmit, this would turn out much better. Of course the arrangement was great and was something I felt was over the bar. I'm not sure where Binnie would have voted, but it looks unofficially like a 5Y/3N. Not my cup of tea, and it won't be for many others, but this one should spark some interesting debate amongst the listeners in the ReView thread, which is certainly a positive thing for a music community like this one.

Yeah, need more than that to explain why this doesn't cut it.

Beyond "Weapon Raid", could anyone please highlight which other FF7 tracks (if any) are being used for this remix? Sorry that I'm not in a position to do it myself. Once I get that info, I'll be glad to write my decision.

I'd hate to think that Jeremy nigguhgigasampled his way to a YES, but frankly, this sounds reasonably well put together to me, and I'm not hearing enough to swing to a NO at this point. I need to hear a copy of "Weapon Raid" in order to compare it to the arrangement though, since I'm not overly familiar with the original. I'll also take into account Dan & Prot's comments; maybe I just have a lower bar, but the execution sounds fine overall, even though it certainly could be improved.

The intro's pretty weak. Dunno if it's based on one of the game themes, as I don't have the capability to listen to the NSF at the moment. The crossfade into the changeup at :30 made little-to-no sense to me stylistically, and this second half of the intro was too atonal to stand on it's own all the way until 1:05. Awesome flow here at 1:05 though, once your main theme came in. Certainly hope it wasn't too straightforward of a cover, but in any case it was excellent. Unfortunately, it's sandwiched in the middle of a bleh intro and a not-as-impressive second half. The changeup at 2:42 was a terrible key change and killed the momentum you had here, along with the goodwill you had built up from that stronger previous section. I realize from your VGMix description that you liked the sudden breaks as that may fit more with this experimental rave style, but try and work for a more logical, flowing transition here, as that transition came across as lazy as hell. I'm certainly open-minded to sudden breaks in music, but most of the time they don't work well. The second theme mixed at 3:05 isn't nearly as good as the first one to me, also. Why not try to transpose the second theme to fit in key with the first, so the sudden transition isn't as jarring? All the frequencies are topping out and in mah face and so forth, but it's supposed to be a hard trance style, so I'll let it slide. That ending at 4:07 was kind of a cop-out/time-to-give-up type of resolution. Hilarious non sequitur cough at the end. Everyone else will tell you to ditch it for being pointless, Heath, but forget 'em, that was great. You know what you doing. Resub, bro, if you're still interested in working on this, since it's over 6 months old now. If not, this was certainly a good experiment. The sounds are generic but weren't bad on the whole, though some are gonna find this grating most of the way through, especially the second half. Anyway, I'm genuinely looking forward to your next FF7 mix, BTW. You already know I'm all for that one. NO

Hate the very generic sound of the lead, but that doesn't affect my vote. I agree that the piano used from :49-1:25 is terribly obscured and needs to be brought up. Things just get cluttered at 1:49 when y'all brought in both that electrosynth and some shrill string instrument as support, so I'm not enjoying how crowded everything became. 2:13 only got much worse as some downright distorted/clippy bass thumps were added at the very end and absolutely cruded this up for the finish. Sloppy mixing execution in the attempt to create a very full sound. Scale the volume back so that y'all aren't topping out every frequency towards the end, insert some more variation in the ideas to keep things fresh if you want to keep the track at a mere 2:39 (which is fine), and I believe the ending cuts out abruptly, but it may just be my download. But yeah, this isn't gonna be your sophomore ReMix, bros. Keep working on it, please. You snagged two votes with Prot on the borderline as well, so a resubmission addressing several issues would make it with little problem. NO (resubmit)

The piano intro the mix isn't particularly hot, but the quality's certainly good enough. Cool stuff fading in at :10 that's structured like ABG's "Ada's Groove." At :34, your flute lead indeed sounds weak, while it's also sounds obscured. Starting at 1:09, the electrosynth you have on lead has some flat delivery, and the countermelody joining at 1:20 is also fairly thin-sounding. 1:44 switches to some organ/keyboard-like notes that are almost atonal sounding that slightly clash with the groove here and sound very gimped out. The percussion at this point has barely had any notable changes in it, so you need to work on some percussion variation within :33-2:41, and not just go back to the same tired beats by 3:02. Decent guitar work fading in at 2:30 and providing support to at least add another layer of instrumentation, but the delivery there is really unenergetic as well. Execution needs to be spiced up, and I'm begging for more creative ideas, as the arrangement is too repetitive. When you hit those lifeless organ/keyboard again at 3:50 and kept on retreading the same territory, it just wasn't a strong way to work towards your close. 4:13 had some better sounds to wrap things up near the very end, though the nearly-finished fadeout abruptly cuts out at 4:39 (which might have just been my copy). Vigilante's right about the mastering needing some work, as the mix has some alright sound combinations that nonetheless get a bit cluttered at times. I also thought this needed some attention for the high-end frequencies to generally help sharpen the sounds. This was very plodding & repetitive, so the development aspect of the mix needs work, and please bring more fullness to your sounds. NO

http://www.zophar.net/gym/tforce3.rar - "Venus Fire" Not enough here, Marcos. Going into 1:18, one really expects this to be building up towards something and then you get a just a crummy/abrupt drum close at 1:31 instead. Besides, this is just a one loop near-verbatim cover of the source tune. You'd be good to go if there was rearrangement substance to this, but there is none beyond the change in support chords. From your VGMix description of this, I doubt you realistically expected this to make it here anyway, since you know it's just a quick cover. I'll patiently wait for Megaman "CutMetal" & Super C "Against the Rest" to show up on the panel or be direct posted. NO

NOoooooo. Terrible keyboard sample. Bland strings, though not abominable. Some thin, gimpy percussion joined in at :54. OH MAN, BAH; 1:06, some more stock percussion crap. Man, these samples are straight donkey crud, the structure is repetitive and unenergetic, and literally every time a new layer of instrumentation comes in, I get pissed off at this. 1:29 has some low saw wave or wutvea, then 1:48 with wuteva other lame thing. All this buildup up to 2:10 for a crappily sequenced cover with generic beats?!? Goddammit, this just isn't my day. Listened to the whole thing, but it doesn't merit anymore beyond this. I'm too busy trashing it. Bad everything. Even the strings coming in again at 3:32 are only a drop of decency admist this default crud. I'll never get those 5 minutes back. Fuck.

Didn't like the bad-sounding keyboard sample introing at :13. The wind instrument joining in at :30 was also very flat in tone and poorly done. The strings you had "beneath" those other two instruments actually were too loud rather than in the back (like accompaniment of this nature is meant to be) and managed to crowd the piece. Ack. Really muffled/reverbed/flimsy-sounding drums came in at 1:03 and the wind lead is so so weak, it can't carry the task of being your primary melodic instrument in any way whatsoever. It's weak on one hand, poorly articulated on another, and almost grating on a third hand, which normal people don't have. What was up with the note choices from 2:17 onward? Not dissonance, just poor note choices. 2:45 in, and I'm frankly kinda hurt that this is going on for another 2 minutes. 3:07-3:31, you're just rehashing the same structure you had at 1:03. The sounds practially never change here at all, which is only a negative when they're so poor here. The tempo changes were a good idea wasted on this poor execution of everything else. The ending at 4:46, which should have been a gradual fadeout, abruptly cut off. Bah. Bland as hell on the execution; poor sounds, no energy. It was a chore to listen to this, and I don't say that often. NO

The sounds are generally alright, but this meanders around an awful lot to start off with. 1:40 of the way through and there's basically been some vox along with indiscriminate note sequences. Not good for half of your 4 minute mix. Awesome rain/wind effects, BTW. No sense of direction until 2:15. The shakers that are placed way, WAY in the back sound very gimp, and the drumbeat that fades in at 2:38 doesn't mesh well with flow of this at all, so scrap it. I have no idea why that was in there, and just as I'm typing that, THERE it is again at 3:12. Nah, get rid of it. The beats don't even synch up well. The male vox at 3:14 was atonal or flat or whatever and crudded up some otherwise decent ambiance. Then the vox just cut out abruptly at 3:24 for no real reason; I can't emphasize enough how low-grade that sounded. Figure out a way to give this a stronger ending, and improve the tone & realism some of the vox. Also, I suggest to drop the lousy drumbeats and focus in on bolstering the stronger ambient foundations you have in place. Lots of suggestions you have from the panel that could bring this one over the line, Ravi, but make sure to tie this in more closely to the source material as well as Prot is having reservations about that. You'll get on here sooner rather than later though, I think we all agree on that here. Good potential on this one provided more work is put into it. NO (refine & resubmit)

Binnie's right, 2:42 is just weak and could be substantially improved. Very WIP-level/placeholder/I'll work-on-it-later quality there. I pretty much echo Binnie's comments verbatim. This is a WIP, Kris. Finish it, bro. It started off very well and degraded over time. I'd like to YES this and see you get back in the game. NO (please finish & resubmit)

Hate. Bad. Vox. Doesn't go anywhere until :50 in. Way too much reverb; very washed out. 1:20's a breath of fresh air I suppose, but there's just way too much reverb everywhere. Yeah, I'm totally with Malc on this. It just comes off like the epitome of bland marching music. The triumphant connotations Pretz mentioned are certainly "there," but this is still pretty aimless. Even if the reverb levels were adjusted so that they didn't muck this, this is just some boring arrangement, which was hurt by the lengthy, meandering intro. Hell, that could even be the source tune's fault per se, I have no idea. Really offers nothing special to this site, in any case. I hope someone else has something more constructive and/or insightful to say on this. Really meh, I'm afraid. NO

The electrosynth lead at :27 is just too generic, while the beats are alright. The stayle change at 1:08 was really cool (YAAAAA!), so you should keep that. Very cool sounds. The techno stuff you started with was way too generic, but I loved the return of the bassy electrobeats at 1:28; awesome fusion of your electronic base with some ethnic instruments to really give the source material a different feel. The lead at 1:51 isn't that good, IMO, and suffers from the same lack of fullness Prot mentioned earlier. 2:09, I'm meh on the accompaniment being obscured again, but hot on the arrangement. That was over all to quickly as you moved into 2:40. That kind of ending at 2:40 is REALLY anti-climatic and unoriginal, believe me. Scrap it and work on some rearrangement expansion for this, along with some possible different sound choices that move a little bit away from the extremely exposed saw wave or wuteva that is. Just didn't feel that it worked here, which is why Prot's pointed out the distinct lack of bass or accompany for sections such as :33-1:08 (among other places). You obviously have some accompaniment in place, but it's very obscured, so beef things up there and get the sound balance working more in your favor. Hit the WIP board and some other electronic mixers for advice, Ben. Genuinely looking to a resubmission of this. A little more dedication & development could get this here. Didn't like everything here, but I generally enjoyed so far. NO (resubmit)

Ha, Rad Racer. Something that the Brothers Chaps can be down with. Not much to say here. Good overall, though I had problems with some of the stronger hits; 1:35 and 1:37 in particular sounded off. 1:40, 1:43. Um, ok. Keeps doing that. 2:07. 2:24-2:29 was a particulary grating/annoying area. Dunno what the story is at all of those points, but they were all jarring and dragged the piece down. Not enthusiastic about the YES even though its sincere; just not an interesting piece to me personally, but it's objectively good enough despite the flaws I heard; too bad you can't just snap your fingers and fix 'em. Though not my cup o' tea, there was good development throughout to keep things moving and tons of ideas were explored. EDIT: Lots of people complaining about those grating areas. Gonna go NO and expediate the process. Fix it up and come back for a YES, Jon.

I be likin' the groove, and I'm a fan of Pro Wrasslin'. 1:07-1:38 is pretty aimless-sounding before you just go into the same deal you had before, only with some added harmonization as Vigilante pointed out. More aimless/unstructured-sounding stuff from 2:17-2:57/end. Dunno who first started using the phrase here, but you just gotta be more. Keep the cool groove intact and hook it up with more arrangement variation along with more coherent structural ideas. NO

Feels like the original fairly simply orchestrated with THUMP THUMP THUMP...THUMP THUMP THUMP 2/3rds of the way, but I've got nothing to compare it with. Sounds like you've got a pretty good base, bro. Not uber-hot orchestral, since THUMP THUMP THUMP ain't really clickin' here with the rest of the sounds, but you're already starting to the hang of some of this, like with these horn velocities. Refinement is needed, but it's pretty solid there, even if the horns are too loud themselves. The strings indeed need more work to sound more natural, and the other percussion is a bit too far in the back, though I can see how you tried to create a certain feel that way. Hope you get some more advice on how to fashion orchestral material like this from other judges and on the WIP forum. You certainly sound like you have some talent, Mario, and the room to get better. Definitely keep at it. Criminal ending. Abrupt and criminal, as if you just gave up trying to think of anything more. 2:26's transition sounded like you were really gonna develop this in a whole new direction with the arrangement and then [sputter], it's over at 2:39. WHAT?!? A cocktease of a submission right there. An ending like that would not N*Gage The Wingless's square-penix, I'm afraid. NO

Not a bad concept. I actually like the effects done on the percussion, and you have a good minimalist-sounding groove here. When the source tune comes in at :28, it's got some decent understated bass action that picks up in volume a little bit moving toward :37. Cool move. Good minimal style going on with 1:12, along with the melody at 1:16. Admittedly, I was put off by the thinness at first, but the choices here are purposeful and seem to click; a lot of the elements seem to come together fairly well. The overall texture isn't great yet, but it's not bad. The style change at 1:31-1:35 was too jarring, if only because it was too high in key compared to the majority of what you've got; also the last note at 1:33/1:34 didn't seem to flow correctly into your next verse. I also felt the countermelody from 1:54-2:09 was too shrill. Might wanna reconsider the sound choice there. Good stuff going from 2:09-2:14. Unfortunately, with such a nice transition type effect on the chorus, I was looking for you to bust out in a new direction to keep things fresh, rather than relying on very minimal countermelodic additions/layering to convey a sense of development. I felt the synth coming in at countermelody at 2:14 actually didn't mesh so well with the other sounds you were using towards the end. It sounded a lot better on its own, like from 1:16-1:30. There's that shrill dealie again from 2:33-2:47. Yeah, that's not working. Good start, Javier. Works pretty well for a sparse, trippy sort of track, so you don't really need to change how sparse the sounds are; just develop the rearrangement aspect a little further. Add some slight variations to your percussion patterns to keep things moving a bit more, and work a few more ideas with the source material's arrangement within your 3 minute timeframe. The nature of the arrangement coverage pretty much stayed the same throughout from 1:35 until 3:00. Prime stuff for a resubmit if you're willing to put a little more effort in. I saw lots of potential, myself. Maybe some others will like it more. NO (refine & resubmit)