Rozovian
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Posts posted by Rozovian
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Thought I'd give this some attention after that message.
You still have stuff to learn; you'v egot too much bass, raw synths, and your instruments are not separate enough.
The first is easy to fix. EQ out the lows from tracks that don't need it, then see if your bass is much stronger than the bass in other tracks (compared to their overall levels, thatis). If so, you either EQ down the lows on the bass, or you reduce its volume level.
The second is a little trickier. Depending on the sound you want for each part, you'd probably have to do different things. Read up on envelopes and filters and you'll have an easier time doing the stuff that's best solved inside the synth itself. Give background instruments some reverb and EQ down their highs if they're still too bright ad prominent. Use multiple oscillators and detune them differently for a wider and more complex sound (eg the supersaw). Add subtle modulation to pitch or filter (via LFOs) for more variation in the sound. But most importantly, figure out what you wanna do with a sound before you make any changes you don't remember how to turn back. or make backups (always recommended).
The third is about as tricky as the second, depending on how quickly you figure it out. Once you do, it's easy, as it's really just about giving each instrument their own space, their own area. This is done with panning, reverb, EQ, and most importantly track levels. Let leads be leads and background stuff be background stuff. Anything you want to pan, pan it (not recommended for bass, kick, or snare, usually not lead either), just make sure you keep the frequency balance centered with something else with about the same frequency range in the other ear. Use reverb to push some instruments further back. Pads and other backing tracks (eg your strings) do well in the background, whereas lead reverb (if even necessary) should have a reverb that predelayed enough to not muffle the sound much. EQ is used to slightly cut frequencies other tracks need more, so eg the lead can dominate the 2-3kHz area when the other instruments have that area EQd down.
Gah, just noticed I listened to the linked wip7 rather than the more recent wip8. Oh well, all three criticisms are better here (tho you can still improve them). Keep working in this direction, and you'll probably have the production under control.
The writing could use some work, there's some note clashes, there's a lot of repetition, it's quite messy at time (best solved with both writing and production edits), and I can't really figure out where the arrangement is headed. Keep working on it, don't be afraid to rework the arrangement if you figure out a better direction to take it, or if you wanna experiment (just remember to take backups).
Just the difference between wip7 and wip8 shows you're learning this stuff. Keep at it.
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Sure, it's yours when I get a wip. Just make sure you're remixing the right track, the name on youtube is wrong but the link is correct. That's why we've told ppl to use the .rsn from snesmusic.org or from ocr.
Work eats most of my project energy atm, but come weekend, I'll throw a preview thing together. Just gotta pick tracks that fit. I know Dj Mokram doesn't want to be in the previews, but does anyone else have a problem with it?
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Moi and welcome.
You're basically doing covers of covers, covers of remixes, so the same legalities apply whether you'd be playing The Black Mages' stuff or ours. nobody can stop someone from playing covers, tho rightsholders and collection agencies might take issue with any usage they're not paid for. We're partial rightsholders to our music in that the performance, production and arrangement is ours, not unlike in a significantly different cover of any song.
Check with Teosto about the royalty stuff. We can supply any real names we've got for the remixers whose mixes you decide to work with. (possibly useful link, tho possibly less so if it's all free)
Dunno if it's actually the consensus, but I think it's cool, and I don't the the others have any issue with it either. At least as long as nobody is making any money off of our work when we're not.
Being asked for permission is usually appreciated, tho. It makes us feel like stars, reminds us that we've got fans. Also, if this is happening in or near Helsinki, and especially if either of my tracks are used, I wanna hear it live.
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If you have big changes in volume after EQ your melody must be all over the place. Consider using a multiband compressor so you always have some control over the high frequencies without getting too much change in volume. Basically, a multiband compressor would make sure you have approximately the same frequency balance regardless of note pitch.
Multiband effects are usually not used on single tracks, usually just on buses and outputs, but some instruments need to have their spectrum controlled like this. It's different from what an EQ does, since an EQ just lowers the level of different frequencies regardless of how loud those frequencies are. A multiband compressor would compress different bands of the spectrum separately. It's a tricky tool to use, but it's an effective way to get tracks that vary a lot in pitch and dynamics under control.
It's really difficult to give advice on audio without hearing it. Is this a track you can share with us? That would make it easier to give more direct advice, instead of having to guess what the problem really is.
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Some thoughts:
This depends a lot on your synth, but doubling and slight detuning works for everything. Using <100% sustains on your envelopes, both filter and amplitude, gives you a little more development in the sound, whether you're using it for a percussive effect or just to animate the sound. Giving your filter some resonance and making sure the filter moves noticeably between two frequencies in the waveform's harmonics (the higher frequencies in the sound). Sync and PWM can be used for further animation of the sound, and using pulse waves ("rectangle" wave that isn't square) can give it a harder sound (they're effectively super-distorted waves).
In FM synths, which is what I've been working with a lot recently, modulating your lead oscillator with a sine an octave down does... something... good.
Beyond that there's subtle use of modulation effects like phaser and flanger, there's noticeably pre-delayed reverbs, stereo spreading (you can get a huge sound by tripling a single source sound, detuning them all slightly, and panning them L100, C, R100; you can also use frequency spreading or stereo delays for a wider sound), distortion and amp simulation (which typically requires a dynamic source sound to sound good, so use the aforementioned filters and envelopes) and other effects.
Using distortion after a heavy and short reverb might yield some good results for a lead... or not. I would want a pitch-controlled filter on the reverb, but that's tricky to do unless you can route the reverbed signal back into a synth.
In writing, higher pitches are easier to hear, but mid-range stuff is (when loud enough) more powerful as leads. I guess you can layer a higher range lead with a low one, but that might sound like two distinct sounds, especially if the lower sound isn't a sine.
If you're just annoyed at the bendy, glidey sounds, turn of portamento, glide, and whatever, and make your synth polyphonic. If there aren't controls for any of these, get a different synth. TAL has its free Noisemaker iirc, which has some cool lead sounds built in. Study those.
As for me, I usually dig through the preset library until I find something I like. Leads have always been a bit tricky, but once you know what makes a good lead, they're not hard to find, or even to make by accident. You just gotta remember to save them when you make them.
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I don't use Spotlight much, but I know the regular search mode doesn't actually search the libraries, which is just as well for newbs but a bit annoying for more experienced Mac folks that do stuff in the library and system. The patches could have been saved in the shared library that you find next to users and System and whatnot.
It could also be that you're looking for instrument patches in the track preset folder. Check the instruments' own patch folders in a nearby directory, or make a track preset to test what actually should show up in the folder you're currently looking in.
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Is Shreddage, by any chance, compatible with Logic? Is it a plug-in compatible for more than just FL? If that's what you're using, it actually doesn't sound bad. Though I'd still try to get real guitar when I could.
Shreddage is a Kontakt instrument, so you need Kontakt to use it. Kontakt is a plugin and can be installed as an AU, so indirectly, the answer is yes.
Dunno what other formats are offered, so check the site for details. iirc zircon has mentioned a soundfont version, tho that's not much more useful in Logic as much of the value in Shreddage is in the Kontakt patch scripting, not just the samples.
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There's the deep end, and there's the sea.
Everything is an experiment the first time. Putting a horrible, over-the-top, excessive flanger on the whole track is an experiment. That's how you learn that it's probably not gonna make the track sound better, but then you know both how to apply an effect to the whole track, and what the flanger sounds like. Likewise the first time you wrote chords to a melody, or melody to chords. Or when you wrote your first drum pattern. Or did your first velocity edit. Or your first midi cc edit. Or your first automation. Or your first whatever. You do without knowing what you're doing, and you learn.
And whenever you wanna show us what you've done, we've got the boards for you. If you're not sure your experiments are sounding good or bad, another pair of hears can help. And we've got plenty of ears on this site.
I have a remixing guide in my sig, feel free to read it. There's other resources on the site, and there's teh googles.
Just remember that it takes most ppl a few years to consistently not sound terrible. Don't worry about it, just make music.
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Not joining. My new job is pretty demanding, and what little time I have for remixing is currently being spent on sd3 and remixing with the stars. No time, no energy. Looking forward to the mixes coming out of this, tho.
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What you should do to make a song sound good? Um... Consonance?
You should be using tools that you can write and mix music in. Dunno how well Audacity does that, so I wanna point you towards REAPER, altho there are other options depending on your platform.
Then you should be aware that the notes themselves are a small part of what makes real instruments sound good - the performer does a lot. This is true for orchestras as well as for rock bands. What we do is more often than not an illusion of performance - screwing with the notes and other things to make it sound like it's performed even when it's not (tho there are a lot of performers here too, like vocalists, guitarists, keyboardists...).
Then you should mix it well. There's tons of tidbits about how to mix, but nothing beats just doing it. It's not about adding the right effect to the right track, it's about finding the right place for each track (by using effects to eg push things back or forward, up or down, etc).
When you have something you want ppl to listen to and tell you how you're doing, put it in our feedback forums. We've got one for vgm mixes and one for all other kinds of music stuff. Once it's there, ppl can listen and comment, let you know hwat they think.
Then just take the feedback you get, try to understand what they said, and see what makes your track sound better.
And read whatever resources you can find, but don't take anything as the one true way to make music™. Just understand as much as possible, apply as much as possible to your music, and learn as much as possible.
Then just keep making music.
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Was listening to some of the tracks on my commute. It made my commute awesome.
Was listening to them during some of my paperwork. It made my paperwork tolerable.
Just so you all know.
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Yeah ACO has it right about the mixing - you've got tracks in the same frequency range and that's causing problems. Your admission of not using EQ makes this a safe assumption without hearing any of your tracks.
Read up on the basic mixing principles that every genre and style needs. You know you can't use effects as drastically in rock/metal as you could in fully electronic styles, but the most important tool is (aside from your ears) probably the eq, closely followed by the compressor and then the reverb. Learn those three (yes, the compressor is complicated, but immensely useful).
When it comes to EQ, pick two instruments (eg kick and bass) and mix them until they sound good. Then bring in a third instrument (eg snare), mix that in, then a fourth, mix, fifth, mix, etc.. When you need to, decide that a set frequency range belongs primarily to instrument x and reduce that range in all the other instruments' eq.
it also helps to compare your tracks to well-mixed reference tracks. Is your kick louder than theirs? Turn it down. Is theirs more clicky or more bassy than yours? Turn those frequencies up (add a clicky or bassy drum sample to the kick you already have, if necessary). Your bass too bassy? Turn down its lows. Your guitars too center-y? Pan them further. Your X too Y? Adjust accordingly.
I have some more thoughts on mixing in my mixing guide in my sig.
And yes, fake guitars will probably sound fakey no matter what, even if they're technically good. It's all about the performance, or the illusion of performance.
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We may need to do some themed mixfloods to catch up. While this gives a little less "homepage time" to the included mixes, I think we can make it work as long as we can come up with a good grouping/concept. Newcomer floods, secondary album mixfloods, game series floods, etc. Thoughts?
Some random themes to work from, from my previous post::
Mixflood from album x, a couple of Pendulum-style mixes, some 80s synth rock/electronic stuff, vocals, orchestral, jazz, collabs, competition mixes, n00bfl00d, oldtimers' new mixes, Zelda, Kikuta, DoD, Finnish-made games, whatever.So... album, style, content, genre, origin, remixer status, game, composer, nation...
Soundtracks made by ocr folks is a theme that might also work, if we have mixes of those.
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Meteo Xavier;877420 Solution? Take in more volunteer staff members.
I agree with that but I feel as though the bottleneck is judging and OCR is not going to trust just anyone with that responsiblity. Now if these pieces from 2 and 3 year ago have already been judged and approved, then yes I see the issue.
As I understand it, the bottleneck is the actual posting. OCR already has had several ppl on the inbox, and the panel seems to have new blood every few months. Trusting with the actual posting is another thing, but I don't think djp has any problem trusting ocr's veteran staff. It's more about breaking the conventions.
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The way I understand it, the action of posting isn't the problem - it's the conventions of writing the writeup, specifically that djp is the one that writes it and leaving tracks on the front page for long enough to be seen that can cause delays.
- That djp needs to personally post a writeup isn't entirely unlike how this site worked before the judges' panel, when djp would evaluate the submissions himself. It's not necessary. Other staff members may well have site-related things they could put in a writeup. A "mixpost manager" can screen writeups for things that don't belong in writeups/should be kept under wraps/blatant lies/whatever, and this mixpost manager could have the tools to do the actual posting, leaving the opportunity for djp to just write a writeup and hand it to the mixpost manager if he's short on time, or for the mixpost manager to post whatever, whenever.
- It can be worked around even without other staff's writeups. If djp can put less time-critical site/life/blog stuff in a writeups tbp document shared with the mixpost manager, those could be posted at any time.
- The site growing and the number of mixes tbp growing would eventually destroy the front page ideal, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. The aforementioned batch idea can replace individual mixes posted on the front page, instead listing batches (or a random selection of mixes from the batches, or whatever).
- I don't really discover mixes from the front page anyway. I download them in unsorted batches, sometimes ten, sometimes thirty tracks at a time. I discover new cool tunes through just listening to this year's mixes, or the last 25 additions to my library, or other smart playlists in itunes. While the front page thing is cool, I don't know how big a deal it really is. The front page thing does suggest to ppl to review the track while it's fresh, but with comments available on facebook and youtube as well as our reviews forum, I don't think that's as big a deal as it used to be.
Some thoughts of mine.
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... remember that there are fifteen mixes that are hosted on the front page. The day that rationing mixes is a requirement because they're getting knocked off too quickly (I would be guessing that each mix should be on the front page for a week, at least) would be one hell of a day for OCR. It would be a concern if things were going too fast, but I don't think that's an issue, at the moment.
Yeah, but unfortunately this is unsustainable in the long run, there's some backlog of mixes tbp, and it certainly wouldn't work if ocr keeps growing. Dunno the numbers on submissions, but I reckon they've increased as the site has gotten more attention, as I assume the amount of ocr-level regulars have.
The only suggestion I have for this would be to release the tracks in batches, as themed releases. Mixflood from album x, a couple of Pendulum-style mixes, some 80s synth rock/electronic stuff, vocals, orchestral, jazz, collabs, competition mixes, n00bfl00d, oldtimers' new mixes, Zelda, Kikuta, DoD, Finnish-made games, whatever. That way each batch can hold one (or more) miniblog post(s) and the rest have a writeup about just the music.
The bloggable writeups could be tagged so they're easier to find if you wanna read about the site. The batches could probably be collected somewhere, with links to each track per batch so ppl who've been gone for a while can find the tracks they don't have and not have to wait for a torrent. Having a list of the batches somewhere would make it easier for ppl to pick up where they left last time they were here getting mixes.
Dunno how big the actual backlog of mixes tbp is and how much is the usual overhead, but that's my idea, at least a thought for when it's needed.
I would also suggest to get our regular submitters first accepted mix posted asap, as that's the time when their growth is the most obvious. During the months the mix was in the queue and the panel, the remixer's skills developed, and that same mix could already sound bad to them; it doesn't reflect their skill level as closely as for a more developed remixer. it also feels great to see your mix posted and to read the reviews on it, and all of this is a great motivator for more remixing.
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Just so we're clear on something, variation isn't ocr's only requirement, the arrangement has to be your own, too. That doesn't mean that you can't build on an existing arrangement (it's pretty difficult to make it even resemble the original if you don't), but if you wanna submit it to ocr, it's gotta be more arranged than a cover.
Good start so far.
When it comes to harp, you might be better off looking for any plucked string instruments that resemble the sound of a harp, and then using writing and sound design techniques to make it more harplike. The timing of the string sustains areisa big deal in how harps are played, and is how hard the strings are plucked. If you find a zither or dulcimer (or other similar instrument) soundfont with a lot of velocity layers, or can make the filter very velocity-sensitive, you should be able to pull it off.
Likewise flute, you can take a half-crap sample and just use it creatively, with filtering and modulating the amplitude (and/or _subtly_ the pitch). I do think flute instruments are easier to find than harps, but you should know that it's more the performance (or illusion thereof) than the instrument itself.
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I have some details on my music history in my remixing guide (see sig), but I've basically been screwing with computer music since I found a tracker for mac, in 2002. Eventually, it even sounded like music.
For anyone that doesn't know about it yet, post your remixes on the remix feedback board, learn that you're doing stuff wrong, learn to tell what others do wrong, learn to tell what you're doing wrong, learn to avoid it, make better music.
also lol neblix' post.
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Many think that it's not a limitation, but a convenience, to use the same daw as your partner, and not having the same daw is a limitation. At least some people stated that earlier in this thread.
Yeah it's convenient, but it also comes with the price of discouraging feedback. I don't think a hard rule is the answer. The novices should be here first and foremost to learn, and should be asking their star for feedback. If that feedback comes via the star looking at or editing the project file, that's cool, it's an added benefit for the little extra trouble of having to ask rather than having to communicate more direct feedback.
It may be a bit of an unfair advantage, but as the first goal is the learning and competing comes second, I don't think it's a problem. Besides, even if FL is pretty popular on Win, and most Macs have a version of GB, you're probably gonna be paired up with someone who doesn't share DAWs at some point anyway.
As for rules, I don't think we actually need to add/change much. Being aware of the problems we've had so far means we know better how to handle them.
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Yeah, Arcy and I had some trouble getting starting. I didn't want to take the reins and pick a source just to get things started, since Arcy would be the primary arranger and therefor had to have a source he could work with. Had we gotten started sooner, we would have had time to talk about eq technique and stuff like that.
On the flip side, we both had GarageBand, so we could work with the project files directly. That's something not all teams will have. Arcy has my first mix pass with level and eq changes that he can compare to the version he sent me as well as study the settings I used. There's also the comparison of the levels and mixing of that and the final version, but there's a lot more I could have conveyed. We could definitely have done better in the teaching/learning department. I did ask, earlier in our correspondence, what he wanted from me, but that got left by the wayside when we realized we didn't have much time.
That it took almost a week to get started definitely made it harder, and the 10 hour difference wasn't working out that well either. I've done all right dealing with ppl over the 7 or so hours to the east coast, and no problem within the european time zones, but perhaps 10 hour differences should be avoided, especially now that ppl are back to work/school.
I would also recommend not being invisible on whatever IM your team decides to use.
TL;DR:
+ same program
- time zone difference and other communication problems
- delay getting started
As far as the pilot round goes, I think these difficulties lead up to a good thing. We've identified some problems that can occur with matchups and within teams and gauged the time allotted and know that those two weeks are both needed for what's really a pretty involved collab.
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It is. Now it's actually funky.
For additional funk, you can do more with syncopation. You can have not just the drums, but also the chord ostinato stagger in the same way, skipping the last note and beginning on the syncopated beat, pausing until the second note... basically following the drums. Any and all instruments _can_ do this.
Cool stuff.
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Beautiful guitar sound, beautiful take on it overall. Too repetitive and probably too conservative for ocr, but you've undoubtedly got the chops for getting something posted here.
I keep getting bothered by every off-sync video bit, like the drums and one of the claps.
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Nice writing. Simple sound.
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Aside from the drums, your instrumentation is vanilla, and aside from the drums, the mixing is pretty vanilla as well. I can imagine this with strong staccato cellos instead of these slow legato samples, so I can hear the idea behind this... but you need those stronger samples for it. There's probably soundfonts and other freebies out there that can do it, and you can always layer some other samples to get the same effect if you can't find the correct samples. The static wub rhythm doesn't quite lend itself to interesting dubstep today.
There's also some direct writing problems, like the lack of punctuation at 1:22 or the ill-timed transition from the choral part to the strings part at 0:28. Piano humanization and other touches wouldn't hurt either. Structurally, it works ok until around 2 minutes in, when you run out of ideas and just repeat what you had before. It's fine to revisit and recycle previous parts, but an almost verbatim repeat with just a piano layer added isn't quite enough to warrant the repeat imo. It doesn't really bring anything new to the mix at that point.
You've got a good start here, good drums, decent mixing, some good ideas in the writing, just gotta get those to shine and get rid of the stuff that doesn't work and you'll have a pretty good track.
Also, welcome to ocr.
An Observation about OCR
in Site Issues & Feedback
Posted
The only pre-judge things that's actually mandatory is the screening of mixes in the inbox, where some are rejected right away, some skip the panel to be direct posts, and some are posted to the panel. I don't know how it's set up, but I think it's pretty much a manual thing. In that case, it could be more automated, maybe via some script that auto-posts emails forwarded to a specific address to the panel or a dp inbox. This script could also add a notice back to sender that the track was posted to the panel or that it'll get a direct post. Likewise, there could be a script that spreads out submissions to different inbox evaluators.
Regarding mod reviews: higher-up staff, could workshop mods get a mod-review shortcuts forum, with only mod-review-marked threads? It's not that hard to command-f for "mod r" in the remix forum, but this would give a better overview, as well as make it easier to unmark old mr-marked threads.
Related suggestion - a shortcut subforum to all Album/Other threads, so ppl can more easily find ppl's own albums and other releases.