Gario

lol, couldn't have put it better myself... Music theorists have a cruel sense of humor...

Wow, ABG, it seems that this one thread has increased your post count by 11.1% and your word count by roughly 10,000%. Congrats, you've managed to out-word me (and that's no easy task ). I read your posts (Yes, all of them here), and I hear you... Commercialization has taken over the VGM business, and what can be done about it, nowadays? I say some savant comes out and pulls a 'Wagner' - writing the story, writing the program, making the graphics, balancing the game and writing the music all on his/her own! Bwah, that would give the person all artistic direction and allow for a perfectly complete game to come out! Until then, though, we're screwed in the whole VGM business, as one artist (graphics designer) will disagree with the output of another artist (the music writer), who will both be hammered by their director (the non-artist-money-maker). It's not hopeless, but VGM isn't what it used to be, at the moment.

Woot! Thanks for the vid, BGC; it's always great to see really good finished work from the workstation. And for the laughs... ... needless to say, people on there do not read the comments OR watch the entire movie when commenting. Seriously, he couldn't take the time to read the comments? You answer that damn question at the end of the vid and you say that in your comments (I guess he had more pressing matters and couldn't wait through TWO DAMN MINUTES! Impatient dipshit...)....Sorry, stupid people piss me off. Nice vid!

Wow, now that I hear it, it DOES sound like an oh-so-familiar theme from SF2! Like I said before, though, the chord use is pretty common; it's gonna sound like a LOT of things . (You're comment about the Top Gun rip-off now makes sense )

I appreciate the feedback, really, but next time listen to the latest version of a WIP before giving feedback (2.0). I believe that's on the front page as well as in the threads. It addresses the main lead issue by beefing it up with detuners, it uses a different bass drum and cleans up the mixing further. Thanks for the feedback, though; I'll be posting 2.1 soon enough. Now, about the transitions - What bothers you about it, specifically? It seems to flow quite well to me. As for the structure it's quite organized (Simply a set of variations - Intro - A B C A' B' C' A'' B'' C'' - Outro), but if something is amiss feel free to let me know. As for the mixing quality... well thanks! I always thought that was the area I lacked . Oh, and I'm mixing on headphones

Alright! I've finally addressed the bass drum problem! It's sounding much better due to that . I've also beefed the lead a little bit with some detuning to give it some more depth. Rozovian, I did what I could with the out of tune sound in the beginning. It's better, but because of what it's doing it'll never be perfect. I like the imperfect sound though . Personally I think there is some tiny TINY things that need to be done (merely some volume adjusting on one or two things), but I think it's FINALLY ORC ready. Ok, any comments? http://www.box.net/shared/nv7dg2vls3

To add to the Groundman topic (this applies to Coldman, as well), the samples used are pretty low quality. Personally, I don't care too much (especially since my music uses out of the box samples, as well), but OC does terribly. In the Coldman song the only source theme is from 1:24 to 2:12. Out of 5 minutes of music this comes out to roughly 1/6th of the song having the source. If you want a rule of thumb, there should be roughly 50 - 70% recognizable source material with the rest being interpretive. Of course there are exceptions, but that's a good estimate. Now, what would I do with Coldman? The buildup from 0:00 to 1:24 doesn't have enough activity to keep the listener interested; either cut it shorter or make changed in the structure of the build up (perhaps use the second part of the song's harmonies at 0:47 - that'll be a good change for the listener). It's not what to add, but what to cut... One of my teachers told me that the most important tool to a composer is the eraser, not the pencil. From 1:24 to 2:12 the four repetitions is boring. I'd cut two of the repetitions completely. 2:12 to the end... Repeat after repeat after... Well, playing a part twice without variation can be done, but it drives the listener nuts if the song is repeating THAT much... not to mention that other than the harmonies there is no source in there. Personally I'd rewrite the rest after that point completely and use repetitions much less. I know that my suggestions were simply to cut, cut, CUT... but sometimes that's a necessary part of writing. When revising, you should back up what you've got so you'll always have it stored just in case you don't like the newer renditions. After cutting it much shorter (it'll probably be around 1 minute long after the cuts), start writing more sections with the melody being the centerpiece and not the harmonies, and make your sections shorter. Use fragments of the melody so the theme isn't stale. Vary the harmonies under the source melody. Use a different theme over the same source harmonies. The list of what you can do goes on and on... It's tricky to figure out what to do musically with the source, but take your time. Don't be discouraged; you'll get it soon enough .

Alright, I'll try that out; if it works then perhaps I'll join you next time

Well, as M&B doesn't have very many mixes right now, so kudos to doing this one . I know the sources well enough, but I'd post the sources in the thread somewhere for those that don't... Groundman Coldman Now, listening to the Groundman's song, it sounds just like... well, Groundman's song. It's a neat arrangement, but that's just what it is, an arrangement, not a remix. If you plan on getting accepted on OC (I'm not sure, but it sounds like your plan according to your post) they want some more original interpretation of the source. Coldman, on the other hand sounds more like what they would look at in terms of arrangement vs remixing (perhaps a little too much so - read below for that). The mixing on Groundman is very clean (which is good ), but the soundscape seems empty (which is a bad thing). You need something to fill the mid range better, and the bass needs some more attention as it's interesting but quiet right now. The use of the bass/piano is also very repetetive; my ears are quite tired of them by the end. Now, about the Coldman song I said before that it feels more like a 'remix' than your other song. However, for a rave it doesn't have nearly enough power behind it. The bass drum is weak; it needs some more 'oomph' behind it (Listen to bLiNd's works to get an idea of what I'm talking about). The pads used drone on throughout the piece. Make them at least sound more interesting using EQ fluxuations or something; their dry and uninteresting right now. The source takes some time to come in. Now, I'm totally for saving the source, except there isn't enough happening before it to keep me happy (not to mention that it disappears again right after). Obviously the harmonies from the source are playing, but it sounds like it has the opposite problem Groundman has - it doesn't sound enough like the original source. Now, for both the songs, they sound too repetative right now. The use of the instrumentation is also stale throughout the two songs, too, so I'd look into changing up how things are used throughout both the songs. These aren't terrible mixes, for sure - You've got a nack on the production quality. It's just some of the 'remixing' elements that your lacking at the moment, so I'd go out and listen to some of the remixes on this site, listen to some of the WIP music and read the critiques given to help you with your own music . Good luck with remixing the M&B soundtrack - it had some gems in there that we're sorely missing!

I had to use a trackball for my classes in recording (as the teacher swore by them), and I've got to say that they're not bad. I can understand the fear of them, but give them a few days practice and you'll be just fine. It hasn't convinced me to make the switch quite yet, but I'm thinking about it (first I need a computer that doesn't randomly mute itself and become unusable at the most inconvinient times... priorities, you know ).

I love music where it really sounds like the performers were having a lot of fun playing it. I can just imagine the smiles on everyone's face as they were playing this . Megaman 3 has slowed down in recent years (most of the remixes are really pre-1000 mixes...), so it's great to get something that's more 'up-to-date' with OCR with this game. The guitar/trombone combo is a tasty mix that I've never heard before and it works great! The organ is sweet, too Nice one, guys!

Yup, I've done those things already and still having the whole bass drum issue. I think I just need to look harder for a good sound - I haven't looked everywhere yet It's not an issue of how to use the sample after I get a good bassy drum, it's simply finding the damn sample... So far in my searches the drum either has a pitch (which ruins EVERYTHING) or isn't useful for what I need to make it better. I just don't like 'sample sifting' very much (but I guess I've got to do it ).

I'm one of those silent posters... I've gotta say, I can't ever get the damn IRC to work... not to mention that I share my internet, so people generally are hovering over my back waiting for me to finish, anyway ... I'll get that whole 'IRC' thing figured out someday and try to join you all...

May I add that the soundtrack for this is very, VERY sweet?

Yes, I'm still on the 'This is a f*cking great song!!' train... but I personally feel the key change could've been done better, there (Ducking as people throw tomatoes at me ) Now I'm not saying get rid of the key change... the preparation for it is just too aggressive to my ear. I also hear the four repetitions as lingering, like AJ-enova said earlier. I have a suggestion to fix both 'problems' at once - Don't change the key until after the first two repetitions of the chorus instrumental, then hit us with the key change exactly when the singing for the chorus occurs. It'll make the section more interesting AND it'll transition the key change better (if it's by half step, it's often good to jump into it suddenly - it gives an accent to the piece). Again, great song... Finish it already!

I feel slightly responsible for this break from the topic, so I'll try to wrap it up... Mozart wrote his first opera at the age of 12. However, if he we're to post on this forum at the time, he'd say, "I've been playing the violin for nine years and the piano for seven. I've been listening to the best musicians in the world for my entire life. I've been writing my own compositions for 6 years, so I decided to give operatic writing a try."... Point is like Meteo Xavier said; if your talented, great! It still takes time and work to develop that talent, though. Can't say anything for the disabled that have some special ability to instantly understand something... They're called 'Idiot Savants' (that's the real term for them), due to their ability to perform a single task so well, yet completely lack in every other area. Bad trade off, in my opinion...

I loved your response to this, McVaffe... It's obviously not wrong, it just makes me want to change the quote to... lol... Sorry, had to add that in.

Yes, Backup = good, for sure... I've got 3 backup versions right now, for the very reason given (going back and revamping the EQ a bunch). It's good advice, going back from scratch and EQ'ing it, the only thing is that I've already done that twice . Third time lucky, I guess. I agree completely with the bass drum (as previous posts in here will attest to), but the more 'boomy' basses create a distinct mud that I can't seem to get around. I'm still looking into it (but if you use Reason and are thinking of a particular drum sound, let me know and I'll see if it fits ). When you say the bass is 'weak', do you mean the sample itself or that there is a lack of bass? If it's the latter, then I don't hear what your hearing (but if it's the former, then if a saw wave is weak, then this is, for sure). If it's a sample problem, then I'll sub it, anyway, as I personally want to see how far I can go with samples straight from the box (If I could get posted with THAT, imagine what I'll do with new plugins ). Meh, the detuning is an easy fix; I've just been lazy. Thanks for the lead suggestions; I'll experiment with that. Once again, I'm looking into it all, and thanks . Edit: I just read what you were talking about with the bass drum and the INTRO. I think I can add the bass there without a problem. The snare taking away from the bass... I thought I fixed the snare problem... but I guess when I exported it the quality was reduced. I'll fix that in my next post, for sure. I was rushed earlier and couldn't read you post properly earlier .

Ok, so now that I look at my older rendition (e.g. v1.5) I realize that I was being retarded by saying there was no clipping... It was pretty bad, in reality. I've hopefully fixed all the EQ problems for good in this one (although it's still loud - if that's really a problem, let me know and I'll tone it down ). I'm hoping the lead is a bit less annoying than before, as I've toned the highs & lows down and the mids up quite a bit. It seems to fill the soundscape much better now, due to that. At 2:06 I've made some subtle changes to make that part stick out a little better As for the bass drums... I may leave them as they are. The clean beat sets the pace better than a wet drum. I may change it anyway though http://www.box.net/shared/8f57q3ixy7 Comments are appreciated!

lol. What can I say, it's funny when people do stupid things. It's even funnier when they don't know that they're doing them.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13974 There, it's over a year old, but it's still there. It'd be funny if that was revived due to this thread .

Ha, it's not selfish - I want more, too... I'm still looking for a bass with more 'oomph', but what I've found (so far) is that they're muddying the mix too much. I'm workin' on it, though . I'm also goin' to try to dull the high end EQ of the whole song - I just found out that the mastering settings I have automatically raises the high end of the whole thing... I hope that'll help. It seems that it bothers everyone, here, and I've slowly been trying to address it... I think I turned the volume up a bit too loud, too, so it'll lose about a decibal for the sake of your ears. As for the lack of dynamic contrasts, I don't really want to lose momentum at all (although that change at 2:06 may be a bit static, I admit), so I can only hope it doesn't affect my chances too much. Thanks for the feedback!

To your first two comments, often there are places (perfectly legal, by the way) that really DO give excellent discounts for college students. I didn't have the finances even for this, sadly, or I just didn't feel like investigating (until after I graduated... which was too late)... probably the latter, to be honest. Check this out, for example... http://www.academicsuperstore.com/category/Software/Music/278243 As to making labs accessible... well, like I said, I simply worked at one so I could have access to it all the time .

I was reading some of the WIP forums today and found one that really caught my eye. He was working on some music when he realized that it really wasn't up to OC's standards. He's new, but he realized just how far up the ladder OC's standards were and was tempted to give up right there... Fortunately he isn't giving up (I don't think), but think about new musicians coming to this site... They get excited about writing music, then realize how far the remixes posted at OCR really are and give up. They don't realize that it takes years to get where you remixers have gotten. So the real question is how long has it taken YOU to get where you've gotten musically? It'll be a very enlightening thread for the new people at OCR, and it'll help them guage themselves on a better (or more accurate) scale. To start it off, I've been involved in music for my whole life, and formaly involved for over ten years, playing piano then writing music. I've been writing music for the midi interface for 9 years, studying music theory for 7 years, writing music by hand for 5 years and have been working on using samples and production for the past year (I think my first song on Reason was finished in December 31st 2007). If taken seriously, this thread can help a lot of prospective musicians get the idea that this isn't an overnight deal for ANYBODY... but it's always worth it at the end.

It admittedly sucks needing a particular program to finish work for school... My two (sad) solutions at school was either sleeping at the school (which I did many, MANY times), as the buses stopped at 10PM, or work at the labs so I have special access to the computers at any time I need... Of course, these are not really reasonable options for most of you (e.g. you probably have some sort of life, unlike I did at school), so I can see where this whole software piracy is a big concern for education. I'd hate to see it in a college, but limiting the class sizes would fix a lot when it comes to availability for the students. If the classes fill up often enough, the school should expand and buy more equipment, as it is obviously an area that makes them money Now, I personally am indifferent if somebody is pirating or not, but I try not to when I can help it. If it is an emergency I may get it and get rid of it after I'm done (somebody needs a score the next week and I don't have the same program s/he does, for example), or get it then buy the program when I have the finances to do so (if I really liked the program), but I feel that if you want your music to be heard or go public it's just better to own what you have. ...It feels better, anyway.