AngelCityOutlaw

Perhaps then, the community needs to make more of a preemptive strike on submissions? I seem to recall Darkesword or maybe Dave saying a while back that despite decreased activity on OCR actual, there are still plenty of submissions. Now, somebody stop me if I'm wrong, but most new people submitting just learned of this through the YouTube or social media platforms? Someone may hear that mix from 2009 that Hoboka linked to, or the "meh" strings in "Attack of The Drones" and then when their mix gets rejected on the basis of sequencing/realism, they're going to be a bit puzzled and I doubt that most people read judges decisions unless it's for their own stuff. So, perhaps in workshop and in j00jment, if someone is going for an epic trailer tune with GPO and 90s Roland patches, instead of giving them feedback as to how to make that track sound like Thomas Bergersen (which they obviously won't be able to do) we should instead steer them in the direction of making a really killer 90s JRPG soundtrack? You know, like turning a bad tattoo into a good one instead of removal and a complete do-over.

At the risk of pissing everybody off, the whole reason we're having this discussion is because people tend to take this place way too seriously. I think that some of the more dedicated users and staff subconsciously (or not) see OCR as this bastion of quality VGM remixes and to enter its halls, one must claw their way to the top through rejection and feedback from the community until at last, you're "worthy" of the OCR name and you get that mixpost on their front page of everything and the integrity of the community depends on upholding this standard of quality. It kinda does feel that way when you get there at first. In reality, most people just know this as that place with a bunch of cool VGM remixes on YouTube and torrents. You just managed to shape your project into something that more or less fits the philosophy of the site and the particular judges it went before liked it. If people like a track, that's great; if they don't, they'll just skip over it and check out the next one. Sure, there's got to be a limit on how lo-fi you can go, but all I'm saying is this site's site is still standing from approving "Koopa Dubstep" — it will still be standing if the track in the OP were Yes'd, too.

I can't agree fully in this situation because this conversation is happening on a site that primarily remixes old-soundchip tunes and regularly features plenty of tracks that are retro throwbacks and bank on "nostalgia" to make up it. Tracks that don't feature higher-end samples or expert sequencing on older libraries wind up sounding like this unintentionally and can get NO'd. Do you not see this as then rejecting a track because of stated intentions and not whether or the track is in line with what the audience will enjoy and otherwise meets expectations? but you can't. There is this long-standing myth in music communities that shortcomings of samples, be they sound or missing articulations, can be overcome with skill. They cannot. You can still compose an excellent trailer track with free soundfonts, but you'll never get the sound quality. EWQLSO can sound great with great sequencing to make up for its abysmal playability, but even then many aspects of it are (and always were) garbage compared to more recent offerings. So if some noob is using the strings from Symphonic Orchestra because that's what they can afford, they must be held to a higher standard of skill to pass the panel then a different noob with CSS? If they get refused because they attempt a track that's beyond the scope of their tools, then that's their fault for overstepping some boundary, but Darkesword says we don't tell people to go out there and spend more money? But your earlier posts insist this can all be avoided if the user with limited-capability samples just says something like "I was going for PS1 JRPG soundtracks" when the only real difference between that music and modern video game soundtracks is the increase in sound quality. If so, then whether that track will receive a favorable reaction from the judges comes down to what you say rather than what you've done. I see this as hypocritical at worst, again because of my first point.

No worries. Like I said, my resting bitch face transposes to text and it causes people to go from zero to knifefight. I've learned to live with it.

How is this at all throwing you under any sort of bus? It doesn't affect me because I don't submit stuff to OCR anymore; I can't really be emotionally invested in the debate. This conversation is literally the most activity I've had on OCR in years. But, I can agree with the points that have been raised and think the community would benefit from such changes being implemented. EDIT: Perhaps you mean the last part of my bullet points? What I mean by that is that yeah...I've definitely seen valid points dismissed as the ravings of bitter rejects over the years.

• "Lo-fi" mixes are either acceptable or they aren't, regardless of intention; if people on YouTube hate "fake" stuff, the fact that it's intentionally fake isn't going to change their minds. • Make the panel faster / relay more up-to-date information • Scrutinize "YES" votes a bit more thoroughly. • There are indeed some valid criticisms toward OCR that don't necessarily stem from whiny-bitch, bitter rejects. I think that's it? Like I say, doesn't affect me if things change or not, but I can support change regardless.

I feel this is a relevant example. Not personally a fan of the arrangement myself; I like Alex's other remixes better, but every judge commented on or alluded to being impressed with Hollywood sound of it. Fair enough. Alex has a pretty good setup worth thousands. I know he has Metropolis Ark, Olmpyus (?) choir, cinematic strings, lots of percussion libraries, has received some of Keep Forest's stuff like Evolution Atlantica for free, etc. So, we know he has no shortage of great sounds to work with. I wonder if, in the last 3 - 5 years or so, there are any remixes in this trailer-music style that were made with something like cheap or free soundfonts and were approved? Perhaps it's not a totally fair challenge since I doubt they get a whole lot of trailer-music submissions, but the point stands. Still, I have my doubts the panel would have passed this track if it were arranged with soundfonts or sibelius.

Right, but no one said you didn't. The point Jorito raises is: In my experience, what he's saying here is true. A few years back, I had a remix rejected because the orchestral parts were made with admittedly crap samples (all I really had at the time). If I had said it was supposed to sound like a PS1 game, would the judges have been bothered by it? Perhaps not, and if not, then if a mix were to be rejected primarily on the basis of the sequencing sounding phony, then in many cases you're ostensibly telling the user that they need to invest in more capable sounds (realistic sequencing is pretty easy with most modern libraries) as attaining the necessary realism with what they currently have may not be possible. Meanwhile, in another mix stated to be in vain of old "orchestra" scores, noticeably fake sequencing would not be considered a problem because of the context. My point, is that if retro-style tracks with intentionally phony sounds are acceptable and mixes like this are popular, then unintentionally phony sounding ones should be acceptable too if the piece is still good — I just don't see the harm in it, personally.

The issue that you then face though is a matter of deciding context wherever it suits you. You can create an awesome composition with those PS1-era sounds, in an "epic orchestra" style, but obviously fail to achieve the actual sound of modern movies and games. If you say to the panel "well, it's supposed to sound like a PS1 game", that could be the difference between a YES and a NO, even if it you really did intend for it to sound like 2017 Harry Gregson-Williams and instead got 1994 Uematsu. Those old samples may not sound real, but still sound good. Here's an example of Sibelius' Note Performer add-on. I, for one, think that's great even if not ultra-real. Which is why I say that the context here doesn't really matter. If it sounds like a PS1 game like the above, but it's still a great piece, most people will listen to that remix (of VGM) and think that it sounds like a video-game soundtrack. Again, I doubt this will turn most listeners off. I just don't think that it ever makes sense to reject a piece for not sounding "realistic" in a community based on remixing music that didn't sound real at all. If the only advice that a track can really be given is "it needs better samples", you're really just saying "you need to spend more money" and I don't see why anyone would do that for the sake of a hobby and getting YES'd by a panel of judges so you can get posted on a website. Myself? It doesn't matter to me if OCR took a hardline "it must sound like the best" stance, but I also don't think there is any real harm accepting something on production so long as the samples aren't completely terrible and are in line with either modern video game soundtracks or retro throwbacks — not everyone can get the former, but the latter can be achieved by everyone.

To be fair, this also depends on the genre and its respective legacy that determines what the "standard" is. I would absolutely say that there is plenty of electronic music on OCR that could easily pass for radio-quality, but that's because even a lot of stock synths and drum machines actually sound pretty damn good and great 3rd party sample packs, reverb and synths relevant to the genre aren't very expensive. Cinematic and Orchestral music? Not as much, because the capability and quality of the samples, percussion, and sound design is much more important and varies tremendously depending on developer and just about all of the ones worth their salt run regular $399+ USD per instrument family and I think it's a fair assessment that most remixers here don't have that. But good luck getting that same type of sound with nothing more than Garritan or Note Performer. IMO, the genre with the highest ceiling for "production quality" is rock/metal. I've listened to and played so much of that music that I've realized probably about 80% of even the "pro" stuff doesn't "sound" as good as most pop music does. It really does depend on good live performances on the best instruments you can get your hands on, recording and "dialing in" each instrument is an art unto itself, etc. I always thought I heard "good" rock production, but really only a few bands/producers and even fewer home musicians ever hit that top 20% of what's really possible, in my opinion.

Basically, their is a remix called "big bad koopa dubstep" that was a direct post by DJP back in 2011. There was a big argument about whether or not it was really up to OCR standards. Even on YouTube, it's the most negatively-rated remix I'm aware of coming from this community. Keep in mind I don't really have any dog in this hunt, but: If I were to make any suggestion, it would be that j00jment of remixes should be more about whether or not the track is close enough to modern production standards (using quality sounds) and composition/arrangement standards to be acceptable to listeners and not whether not it fits the "OCR philosophy" so to speak. I know this will sound like it has a douchey tone to it, but trust me; it's just because of the cold lack of emotion text has and my rather crass way of wording things =P For example, From Gario: Nobody cares about what the judge's "tastes" are; they should not be a factor as much as possible and the number of people who will care about 22 seconds being copy-pasted in electronic music will be close to zero when it's out there in the world. From Mindwanderer: Here is a top-20 charting, funky electronic track used in countless video games, films, trailers, etc. which has way more than a third of it being copy-pasta repetition. What's good for the masses isn't good enough for OCR, though? Please. There is clearly a riser that leads up to the end and there are no shortage of similar tunes that end exactly like this or otherwise with an abrupt ending and it hasn't harmed platinum sales. The track doesn't need EQ; it needs superior part-writing to get rid of the clutter, could probably benefit from some more "modern" sounds, harder-hitting drums and more low end. Where I'm going with this? None of this track's shortcomings seem like dealbreakers and I don't think it's any skin off OCR's ass if it were just approved. Instead, it's rejected and the mixer will have to go back and try to remold it the way you want it and wait probably a year or more before they find out if they must wait another year to see it on your YouTube channel. You may as well have just approved it: I'm certain there would be no shortage of people who enjoy it, it would encourage the mixer to continue mixing for the site, and whatever shortcomings it has aren't going to sully OCR's standards and reputation. You've approved a whole lot worse.

Sounds to me like their rejection was justified by their usual standards. It's not about whether or not it "sounds bad"; it's about whether or not it sounds the way the judges want it to and in varying degrees of accordance to the site's ideals. It's argued that this is about quality assurance — which I'm sure it is, to a large extent — but personal bias absolutely plays a part because it does in literally anything that is put before a panel of judges. Nobody should take approval or rejection from OCR seriously, IMO. That being said, I don't see why people bother to submit at all when it takes over a year to get evaluated and by that time, the user has either moved on and improved or given up; kind of defeats the purpose of providing useful feedback to n00bz so they can get approved. You may as well just post it on soundcloud or YouTube yourself. "But not as many people will hear it!" — maybe, but I don't see why anyone cares about being a celebrity VGM-remixer; if there even is such a thing. Lastly, to give an example of where I think the problems lie: A few months ago, a remix I did with Timaeus for Metroid's anniversary got approved. It had been so long that I forgot we even did the mix. Long story short: Tim was in a bit of a bind since he was off to grad school and at the time, he was the only one of us with a proper string library (I've since acquired CS2). Admittedly, the strings didn't sound great and all of the judges pointed it out. For most people, those dodgy strings would've been a no-go and got them a "Resub". I mean, you'd think that two guys who have two previously approved collabs with the one member having many, many mixes on the site that such a mistake should be inexcusable, right? That's my only criticism — aside from the wait time, but people have lives — of the how the panel works: It's long been my observation that "established" remixers are often shown more leniency in fuck ups than noobs are when it should be the other way around. But then, some of you may remember the Big Bad Koopa Dubstep controversy of '11.

A Jack The Ripper inspired, cinematic piece I wrote for Halloween

I'm going to have to disagree with Taucer. You DO want the same reverb on everything unless the reverb is an effect. That being said, I do agree that the reverb seems a bit too huge. You want everything to sound as if it exists in the same room. So, create a track with just the reverb on it, find a medium-size room with a moderate decay and use it as a send track and not an insert. This way, you will get 100% dry signal on all of your tracks and the amount of reverb you get is determined by how much volume the send is set to per track. The exception is the snare and toms; in the 80s, what they did is they sent these drums into an absolutely MASSIVE reverb setting and then after the reverb, they put a noise gate with fairly-harsh settings. The idea being that after the drum hits, you get this huge reverb hit which is almost immediately cut off. It gives you arguably the defining sound of 80s music production: Next up is that the low end really has no punch in your track. I'd find a kick with more low-end to it and maybe backoff the cutoff on the bass synth a tad. As for the midrange mud, it sounds like you have a lot of overlapping notes. Like, I think I hear this big synth pad, but then other stuff plays over top of it. Whenever two sounds play at the same pitch (frequency), they will sound like one new thing (the idea behind orchestral doublings), but if they aren't continuously so, then you get mud because as the one line plays through a bunch of others (such as a sustained chord), it bounces back and forth between being a unison and a divisi and so it is difficult to discern them as individual parts at all. This is something you can only fix with the arrangement — no amount of EQ or other "mixing" tools will fix it.

Is it?

Between Voltron, new Star Trek and Blade Runner, it felt mandatory for me to take a stab at a classic sci-fi theme.

Halloween is the perfect time to create your own, spooky soundscapes.

Improvised tune with CS2 and Cinebrass.

Thanks!

I just hope we get an N64 Classic next. That might be pushing it, but I'd buy it.

I find it funny how gamers tend to complain that the industry is out of ideas and there is nothing new, but trip over themselves to get a relaunch of a nigh 30-year-old console.

The only thing I can add is composing for production libraries or original scores for different kinds of media. In either case, orchestral and hybrid music is the most in-demand, but also the most expensive to create (those high-end sample libraries and requisite computing power don't come cheap) and may not be your thing(?) Regardless, stock music that is used in advertising can be very lucrative if you have a popular track and/or get placements in big advertisements. Probably the biggest are movie trailers, but the trouble there is that most of this music requires you to be, at once, terribly generic and still somehow different enough from the convention to stand out. Competition is fierce. Best you can do is find libraries like position, liquid cinema, etc. and submit a portfolio when they are accepting them and see what happens. You can try doing it yourself through places like AudioJungle, but these places generally offer mediocre deals (to put it lightly) and there is so much crap that it's hard for a potential licensing opportunity to find you: It's basically where people who failed to get into the big leagues go to die; harsh as it sounds. The next one is composing for films, games, TV. I'd seriously consider it since you're in BC and TV and film are popular there; I'm actually working on a short film from Vancouver atm. Of course, finding paid gigs can be tricky and you'll have to accept garbage gigs that pay nothing in order to get anywhere at all in the beginning — those IMDB credits matter. The only way to get into this is to get out there and meet people and other composers in the business (perhaps most gigs come about by referral!), perhaps become an assistant to an established composer, etc...all combined with a considerable amount of luck. I know that, obviously given this site, video games are popular and I've seen many articles that brand them as the great frontier of opportunity for composers, but it has been my experience for the better part of a decade now that this is quite far from the truth, I'd actually argue that it's more difficult to get into, but I'll not elaborate so as to not go on a huge rant. I wouldn't focus on it specifically, is what I'm saying.

Thread is two years old =/

Provided that your lines flow well (voice leading), and have a nice contour, it's mostly creative decisions. One thing to consider, is that many instruments have a "golden register", a pitch range where they sound best. On the other side of the coin, some tend to sound awful in certain ranges. The only way to learn this is through familiarizing yourself with the instruments you want to use, as well as studying orchestration in general. So, be careful of that. A great "trick", is to "lead in" to the melody from the previous bar. Say that the first real note of my theme is an A, in A minor. I could lead in to that from the previous bar with two eighth notes of E and G below it. A good example, would be this piece: So, it starts with that famous Celesta line, which is occasionally harmonized with itself. As the theme comes back "home", we get those fast string runs and that oboe trill @ 43 seconds that imitates an owl hoot for a few bars, and then the horns play the theme. Note the second theme, starting at 1:35. It's played by the winds, and then is restated at 1:48 by the trumpets. You'll notice in each case, that there is just one note that leads in to restatement of the theme. In the first part, the horns play that fourth below the first beat of the bar where the theme really begins. In the second example, it may sound like the trumpets just "start", but if you listen, the exact same thing is happening as in the first example. It's just that the woodwinds play that note (harmonized) before the trumpets begin; so you get the same effect. The music theory term for this, is an "anacrusis"

The most over-rated, turn-based, animu number simulator of all time. I was 5 when it came out.