sephfire
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Posts posted by sephfire
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I believe at first we were being limited to using the same free soundfonts like squidfont, cadenzza, etc. Then we all realized that only Bliz and Unknown can make free orchestral soundfonts sound like the shit. So we got to use whatever OMG$$$ samples we wanted.
Yeah. I envy those guys' ability in that area. They take the free stuff and work miracles. I have the ability to consistently make Reason's decent orkester library sound like crap spewing from a marching band tuba at haltime.
Unknown needs to create a tutorial or something explaining how he does that. I'd pay money. Seriously.
It's not that difficult; just use the right amounts of reverb and stereo separation, and pay attention to velocities. Write realistic rhythms, and know the limitations of your sounds. You need to treat a violin sample as a violin sample, not a real violin, and understand its limitations. That's how I approach sequencing any 'real' instrument, and it's what I did when I wrote my tracks for this project.
That makes sense. I'll keep that approach in mind for the future.
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I believe at first we were being limited to using the same free soundfonts like squidfont, cadenzza, etc. Then we all realized that only Bliz and Unknown can make free orchestral soundfonts sound like the shit. So we got to use whatever OMG$$$ samples we wanted.
Yeah. I envy those guys' ability in that area. They take the free stuff and work miracles. I have the ability to consistently make Reason's decent orkester library sound like crap spewing from a marching band tuba at haltime.
Unknown needs to create a tutorial or something explaining how he does that. I'd pay money. Seriously.
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I played through Chrono Trigger a few times and can remember much of the storyline, and I would agree that the music in this album does flow well. Thanks to the stand-alone remixes.
I liked The Rising and think it had a distinctly different feel compared to Crono's Dream. If this were a 'true' movie soundtrack than I imagine that the album would be rather boring, with only a handful of 'stand-alone' songs to grab my attention. The rest would be background music like Crono's Dream. Same with the Lord of the Rings soundtrack.
So long as you know the game, you can follow the soundtrack.
This is important. If there were less 'stand-alone' songs in this album and people didn't have a game to visualize the story, then I imagine this album would have gotten fewer positive reviews. People don't mind background music (I certainly don't), but it certainly doesn't get the kind of attention 'foreground' music gets. And background music certainly can't tell a story.
I beg to differ on your point about Chrono Symphonic not being 'just a collection of many tracks'. I find that many of the songs could easily stand alone and get good reviews by themselves. How many of the songs weren't made specifically for this album? I can pick out at least 3 that I know of. Two weren't all the different from the originals. I'd dare to describe Chrono Symphonic as a collection of very well done, stand-alone songs that also flow well together to form a story, with some background music as lead-ins to other stand-alone songs. I'd say that Relics of the Chozo more closely follows your description of CS (but not completely) in being a single united composition, even if artificially in some parts, by the fade-in to each successive track in the album. Sure, RotC also had its share of background music as well, but I enjoyed (some of) it as well.
I'm not saying that the tracks can't stand alone independent from the whole. That's obviously untrue. As you said, several of the tracks were composed before the project began. I'm saying that Chrono Symphonic (by design) meshes into a single composition in a way that no other project has until now (though others come very close).
I'd say that a truely single united composition would have had one source of sound fonts/samples and more coordination between the composers to plan volume levels, bass levels, etc. to truely unite the album (and subsequently make Compy Fox's life a bit easier). For instance, you would have agreed to a set amount of violinists, pianists, trumpet players, etc. and utilised them accordingly in a more united fashion. I suppose this is a bit anal retentive, but it would be quite united.I agree with that. However, with everyone using different software and resources, it would be incredibly difficult to have EVERYONE use the same samples/etc and master settings without resorting to freeware. Granted, Unknown has proven that free stuff can work wonders, but not all of us have mastered this technique. There are lots of other ways that such unity and coordination could have been accomplished, but most of them would have involved money or an incredible sacrifice of time to achieve. I think things were organized efficiently given our resources.
Also, the entertainment value of film soundtracks is rather objective. I've been listening to the soundtracks from "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "The Island" ever since I bought them without succumbing to boredom. Film soundtracks don't necessarily have to limit themselves to simple "background music."
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The idea is nice, to make a movie score, but it falls down when listened to for the sake of music. For instance, Lord of the Rings had great music and it did a masterful job of conveying emotions to the audience, but the soundtrack falls down when it comes to sitting at my computer and listening to it. Since the intended purpose was to make a movie score, then I can see why you and others made their songs the way they did, but it seems to me that this project would have had the worst of both worlds if it would have had more music like yours (this sounds bad, but let me finish).
A movie score with no movie is missing the part that makes the music make any sense. With no movie I don't get to watch any characters' mono/dialogues, and I don't get to see facial expressions or other body language.
A movie score with no movie doesn't give me 'stand-alone' songs that convey emotion and tell a story without words. It's like a soul with no body, almost lifeless. EDIT: Actually, there is one exception. Musicals do give stand-alone music
Maybe the Chrono Symphonic movie is a musical?Look for the
Bear necessities...
In fact, a movie score doesn't even try to tell a story, only convey the emotion of the setting or the characters in the story. Most of the time the music in movies is in the background, giving subtle hints to the audience about what is going on.
So in fact the criticism of your song(s) isn't so much a criticism of them but of the basic premise of this project. You might have done a spectacular job of making a movie score, but I'll never know with no movie
OCReMix has an enormous Chrono Trigger section. Well over 60 tracks have been composed remixing the music from this game (and there's a lot of quality music to be found in there, let me assure you). This project has a more defined purpose than to just "make 25 more remixes but all orchestral." The "film score" organization and arrangment of this album is what makes it so unique.
And you don't have to see the movie to appreciate the dynamics of this album. Listen to it all the way through. If you know the game's story, you can follow the storyline placement just by hearing the music. The dynamics of the album as a whole reflect the dynamics of the Chrono Trigger story itself. So long as you know the game, you can follow the soundtrack.
Chrono Symphonic is a single united composition, not just a collection of many tracks. This is reflected in Claado's script and in Compy's hard production work to make each individual track flow together. This was the goal from the very beginning.
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As good as the source tune is, Confronting the Mystic fails to do the same thing to the listener. Diving head first into the main tune seemed premature and goes against what the original tune was doing in the first place. In other genres, I'd praise the variation from the original, but for a bombastic orchestral score, the buildup just isn't there. Sorry, sephfire.
I can't argue with you.
Such are the limitations of the 2 minute time limit. There are probably ways that such an intro could have been forced in, but as far as "script-adherence" goes, I still stand by my arrangement decisions with this one (mostly).As long as I'm explaining, I had imagined a lot of the emotional buildup being driven by the scene's pre-fight dialogue. Then the chorus/string buildup would come in just as Magus made it clear that he was about to kill himself some intrusive pre-teens (by lifting his scythe or whatever). Then the music moves straight into the battle. Halfway through, the intensity drops as a resounding BOOM alerts everyone to Lavos's awakening. Then the panicky music at the end plays as everyone tries to escape the huge vortex.
Again, things could definitely have been reworked. If I were to do it all over again, I'd concern myself less with the script and more with service to the source tune. I may eventually create an extended version of the track for OCR submission to do just that, but until then I'm still quite proud of the remix as it is.
BTW, great work everyone. This is definitely a real treat.
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It means a lot to me that you guys are willing to go through one disappointing release date after another
Come on, man. We're gamers. Tolerating one release delay after another is what we do.
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Couldn't you just release it as is?
The source material is great, and I trust the mixers are proficient, so I can suck it up and adjust the volume by hand if necessary.
I fear that if you attempt to make it immaculate, it shall never be done.
Compy's job is a bit more complicated than just that. Even we mixers would much rather let him finish his work. Trust us when we say that production makes all the difference in the world.
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Ok, we've got some "special features"-style bonus material here. The mp3s below show the progression of Journey's End from it's earliest draft (before it was a collab) to the final draft currently posted on OCR. This may give you some insight into the creative process and show exactly what each remixer contributed. Enjoy.
The original remix composed by myself before pixie or Gray were involved.
Journey's End - second draft (vocals)
After I contacted pixietricks, this is the rough vocal draft she wrote and recorded, transforming Journey's End from a simple arrangement into a song.
Once I received the vocal tracks from Jill, this is the final track I came up with and finally submitted. As you can hear, it had its share of production issues, which eventually led GrayLightning to offer his talents ...
... which resulted in the final version of the remix that made it into OCR.
A great deal of work went into this remix from conception to completion, but the results were worth it. It was a true pleasure to hear my own work molded and perfected by two of OCR's most talented musicians. I look forward to any chance of working with them again someday.
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wow...
from the one comparison, its obvious that all the haters about "omg roland is taking forever," or "compy is messing up the tracks" need to STFU right now.
its an incredible difference.
Definitely. Next week can't come soon enough. It will have been worth every week of waiting before it.
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accent FTW.
I'm beside myself with anticipation.
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*pats Compy's head*
we all feel for ya buddy.
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The hardest boss of all time in video game history was the last boss in Metal Gear for the NES. For the simple reason that Konami forgot to program him to die. Thats right, he litteraly can't die.
Same with the final boss in FarCry: Instincts if you're unlucky enough to experience the glitch. You can shoot/punch him for hours and he'll keep on coming at you like a tank. A tank with infinite ammunition and no character depth.
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Message to Sephire (Who's work I'm very fond of!). Please please please may I have your permission to use this piece in an animation I am working on and submit the finished work -including music- to my DeviantArt.com gallery? It would be fantastic if you would allow me to use it since it fits the mood EXACTLY.
I love this piece, I've listened to it over and over! It's a great tune to just reminise. I liked the original too so this would naturally be really nice!
Thanks for reading!
Sorry for the late response, but you're welcome to use it however you like. I'm sure Fatty Acid won't mind either. If he let me totally overhaul his work, I'm sure he won't mind your use.
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Nope. Nothing, really. I've been busy with school and other Site Projects, and now I'm starting on a personal project of mine. Until I get the files from Compyfox, we're pretty much on hold. I, too, am sorry about the delay, but we've already waited over a year...it can certainly wait a little longer.
~.C.S.~
Indeed it can. Slow and steady wins the race.
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Hey, no apology necessary. Personal life comes first.
I was just curious if anything new had happened outside of the thread. -
Any new developments in the last week or so? New mirrors, mastering progress, artwork, etc? There's a shortage of buzz.
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As long as we're all sharing our anticipation, I can't wait to hear everything when Compy's finished with it. It's always a treat to hear your arrangement mastered by someone who knows what he's doing. Looking forward to it.
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This issue didn't deserve two pages ...
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We've all put in a lot of time and stress into this project over the past year. For some of us that stress has been stretched over the whole length and for others it's been compressed into a short, panicked session near the project's end where everyone starts getting edgy and impatient.
Let's not start going for each other's throats here. We're in the home stretch.
I think it would only get ugly if everyone started questioning the worth of each team-mate. Take a deep breath, everyone...For emphasis.
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Hey cool! I didn't expect to hear Journey's End plugs! That little surprise made my Friday.
Yeah, seph! Did you ever hear episode 017 of VGDJ? Just listen starting at 32:27, where the stinger is, hehehe.
Yeah, I heard that one too. Both great interviews. I just wasn't expecting it in the Press Start interview.
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Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that UnforgivingEdges interviewed me on his radio show (Press Start) yesterday, and I plugged Chrono Symphonic! Have a listen here if you're interested. The part about CS comes in at around 30:24. I sound so lame...
But at least it's spreading the word, right?Hey cool! I didn't expect to hear Journey's End plugs! That little surprise made my Friday.
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Actually... ellywu showed a sign of "life" at GD, I'm on his trail already, too. More soon.
Come, Watson! The game is afoot!
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Ah, ok, I like your plan better Claado. I'm no audio engineer, so I wasn't really sure what Compy could do with the mp3s. I'm glad to hear that that's the gameplan though. Cool.
PS: sorry, I wasn't trying to micromanage back there, I was just curious about what the plan was.
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This is only curiosity, but what happens if ellywu2 never resurfaces?
It's possible that somebody could attempt to reproduce his work (general arrangement, etc.). That way, his tracks would become a sort of collaboration between him and the reproducer, and we'd still be able to credit the tracks to him in some way. He DID contribute a lot of time and effort to this project, and if his tracks need to be handed over to someone else, it would be a shame to see all of his work go to waste ...
Hopefully he'll pop in very soon and eliminate any need to consider alternative solutions to the problem.
OCRA-0006 - Chrono Trigger: Chrono Symphonic
in Album Reviews & Comments
Posted
Thank you.