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José the Bronx Rican

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Everything posted by José the Bronx Rican

  1. Coinciding with the OCR anniversary; it's destiny (metallic wheeze). CONGRATS and Best Wishes!
  2. That's why I couldn't work with yours; Justin was my first and only recruit before I opened this up, and he's on til he says he's off. "Tension" is everybody's favorite, so we already knew there'd be "quarterback controversy", but I have to be strict with sources. Feel free with any of the open tracks, and don't forget to give me an idea of your arrangement approach.
  3. First post has the tracklist, and anything without an artist listed is open. Check the doc for complete details.
  4. I'm glad you came around, because Larry already put me on to your work a few days back, and we both agreed you'd be welcome on this project. I felt a need to keep far away from double-dipping on sources for this album, so I can't find a way currently to include your track (and I wanted to!). However, if you think you'd like to have a go at another source, please feel free... we have plenty of time It may well be needed, so I'll keep you and possible others in mind, then I would only need concern myself with sound levels We'll be keeping track soon of anyone else who wishes to volunteer for album art/assets/other stuff. I will be art directing, as I have design ideas in mind (including album logo), but will likely need other folks to put the ideas to virtual canvas. BTW, officially welcoming ARGLE!
  5. I can see about zips. The reason there are .mp3 links is for comparison's sake between different game releases, and because there isn't much consistency out there: chiptune files are available, but accurate playback on the MSX2 music isn't likely with current players and plugins; the quality of Sega CD rips are all over the map; youtube is youtube, and at any rate, nobody out there (including Konami and their OST labels) can settle on track titles for most of this music. The stuff I offer was ripped, edited, restored and mastered from the ground up, but complete collections for each version of Snatcher (with tags) are not ready yet. I'm currently trying to expedite that, and I'll try to have zips available when they're good to go. You actually saved me the trouble of contacting you, because you were on my list, and I'd definitely like to have you aboard. If/when you decide, holler.
  6. I see potential there; the ambient stuff was interesting... something that, if we further the space in the mix and sequence loosely, would surely be suitable for one of our cues. But I'll leave the approach to you; just give me the arrangement details when you decide.
  7. Truong-Son and Chris, welcome aboard! I think both of you will do nicely. I'm trying to set everything up within a week - maybe have a forum, see whether an art staff would be needed - and I have such big plans for trailer and extra content, I'm practically starting on it now, even though we may be looking at a 2- to 3-year dev cycle. This album also happens to be just one part of a personal 'mega-project' of mine, possibly including separate fanvids and MIDI renditions. Other obligations are constantly popping up, so I'll depend heavily on Will and Scott to keep us all in the loop. Good luck!
  8. SNATCHER: THE SCORE FROM J.U.N.K.E.R. http://youtu.be/Y0F1feEQba4 ATTENTION: June 6, 2017: First, my big fat apology to anyone affected. First started on the 25th anniversary of the original release of Snatcher, I was certain my personal busy-as-hell situation would prevent me from following this project properly, and I wanted to recruit and set up a staff before that happened. I failed miserably, and this ended up being put off for years. June 6 is an important date in Snatcher lore, and I decided I would stop the nonsense on this date. I have people to help me, and I'm actively recruiting, but bear with me a little while on claim status as I contact interested parties from before. I'm also available on our discord chats and willing to answer questions and take constant nagging (to a point, of course). My other projects related to Snatcher's music are on again as well, for those that know about it; if not, see the above video for details. Further clarifications are forthcoming within the week. “Let’s go, Metal!” PERSONNEL: José “Bronx Rican” Felix (Project Creator/Director); additional Staff TBA INTRODUCTION: The Cyberpunk Adventure that helped put Metal Gear Solid creator Hideo Kojima on the map: less a 'game' and more an interactive sci-fi 'noir', inspired by Hollywood storytelling, with a compelling tale influenced by (or “stolen from”, depending on your viewpoint) Blade Runner, Terminator and other films. Snatcher saw several releases in Japan, but also one exclusive English-language release that went largely unnoticed, but that I like to think is remembered fondly by everyone who experienced it. The original soundtrack is one of the early masterpieces from the Kukeiha Club (Konami's revered sound team), accomplishing cinema-style atmosphere out of FM synths. This album project is after the same thing, but on a much larger scale. CONCEPT: The operative word is "CINEMATIC"... any genre is allowed within the overriding vision: each arrangement should convincingly function as a score for a major motion picture. Naturally, this calls for a commitment to production quality. Anything emulating 60's-style library cuts to today's orchestral pieces will do, but ‘cyberpunk’ touches will probably help. Tunes can follow a more traditional song structure, like our established ReMixes, emulate opening titles, credits, montages, or scenes where music is being played (such as in a club), or serve as 'music cues' that act as a complement, establish a mood, and follow the action for whatever 'scene' the artist wishes to imagine. Some sources may be better suited to themes and some to cues; I intend to ensure the finished product will emulate a complete cinematic score, with a healthy variety of themes and cues. A large soundscape and a wide dynamic range is encouraged: the loudness war is not to be waged here unless it’s absolutely essential to the track. The following posted ReMixes are good examples of the album’s possible direction: http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01302/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01387/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01505/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01594/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01772/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01856/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02020/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02037/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02051/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02126/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02274/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02315/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02318/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02343/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02368/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02374/ http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02515/ | http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02567/ GUIDELINES: Claiming artists must show arrangement, production and engineering experience in the implied style, either as a posted ReMixer or with satisfactory works elsewhere. Only one claim for each source, so please commit. Incorporations of other sources can be done, but only if you have a good reason for it (as a sort of leitmotif, for example), and, as explained later, some incorporation may be needed. Any claim should include details about the arrangement’s concept/mood/direction to help me shape the album's vision: basically, answer the question of its hypothetical use in a motion picture. This is likely to reach a minimum of 100 minutes of music, so a maximum of 150 minutes gives a range consistent with a so-called 'two-disc' release, and also with a movie's soundtrack. No tracks will be designated as 'bonus'; either finish to your satisfaction or drop. 5.1 SURROUND REMIXES!: Furthering the 'cinematic' experience, I'd like many, if not all, of the finished arrangements offering a special '5.1 surround' mix as extra content. If any artists wish to have a surround mix, they may either do it on their own – if they are suitably skilled – or allow a volunteer with more expertise to have it done instead. Methods, formats, personnel and procedure have not yet been determined, and I appreciate feedback in that regard to help make the best decisions. I strongly suggest artists make efforts to keep from losing any important recordings, stems, samples and project files for their arrangement, in case the determined approach to 5.1 requires them. TIMELINE: Two possible release plans for this album include having it out ahead of the holiday season, which is relevant to the game's setting, or releasing on June 6, to correspond with the date of the “Catastrophe” depicted in the game. 'WIP' and 'FINAL' schedules are to be determined, but I will likely agree to let artists go at their own pace, yet check in once a month for progress, then will kick it up further depending on the amount of finished work. We will attempt maybe two to three years of music development. SOURCE TRACKLIST AND CLAIMS: See below. The majority of non-exclusive source tracks composed specifically for the first four Snatcher releases are listed. All versions linked to youtubes or files, along with a full mp3 zip, in order to appreciate the variations in arrangements. Each source's composition will be attributed to the platform of origin, unless specified by the artist. NOTES ABOUT SOURCE TITLES: Deep research has been done because of Konami's disgusting inconsistency with track titles for this music. None of the 'official' sources of info could be relied on fully, so I compromised and consolidated the titles as best as I could, in order to put away confusion for this album. It's impossible to come up with a standard that would be satisfactory to everyone, but I guarantee you will not find better, more accurate title 'guesses' anywhere else. FULL TRACKLIST MP3 ZIP LEGEND Determined Track Title~ ['A.K.A.' Track Titles <<Approximate English Translation>>] YOUTUBE or file links: PC88 (NEC PC-8801) | MSX2 | PCE (NEC PC Engine Super CD-ROM²) | SCD (Sega [Mega] CD) | ZOOM (“Zoom Tracks” arrangement, some used in CD releases) A short track description for original context and/or guideline for arrangement Current Artist Claim, Status [early, progressed, substantial, completed] Bio Hazard ~ Snatcher [“PROLOGUE DEMO” (Bio Hazard_Snatcher); BIO HAZARD; BIO HAZARD (<<Catastrophe BGM>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | ZOOM The introduction, detailing history's deadliest disaster (the “Catastrophe”) and the 'body-snatching' menace occurring half a century afterward. Artist: timaeus222, completed Twilight of Neo Kobe City [“THEME OF OPENING” (Twilight of Neo Kobe City); TWILIGHT OF NEO KOBE CITY; TWILIGHT OF NEO KOBE CITY (<<Opening BGM>>)] PC88 | MSX2 The original opening credits sequence: Neo Kobe City, an establishing shot straight out of Blade Runner. Artist: Argle [tentative] Theme of Snatcher, Part 1 [THEME OF SNATCHER; THEME OF SNATCHER [PART 1] (<<Spinner Demo BGM>>); Theme of SNATCHER (PART 1)] PC88 | MSX2 | ZOOM (Unused) Gillian Seed's first day on the job as a runner, and he's called into action immediately, along with his 'navigator' and eventual sidekick, Metal Gear Mk II, to help his colleague Jean Jack Gibson track down possible snatchers. Creeping Silence [“PURSUER PART1” (Creeping Silence); CREEPING SILENCE; Untitled part of DANGER DANCE…& JUSTICE ALL (<<Intrusion ~ Shooting Mode>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD The first of the four main “Pursuer” tracks making up the bulk of the game's BGM usage, helping to create mood and build suspense. This track usually accompanies the establishment shot of a given scene. Criminal Omen [“PURSUER PART2” (Criminal Omen); CRIMINAL OMEN; Untitled part of DANGER DANCE…& JUSTICE ALL (<<Intrusion ~ Shooting Mode>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD The second “Pursuer” track follows our heroes after the investigation is fully underway. Pleasure of Tension [“PURSUER PART3” (Pleasure of Tension); PREASUR OF TENSION; PLEASURE OF TENSION (<<Intrusion ~Battle at JUNKER HQ>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD | ZOOM The third “Pursuer” tune is everybody's favorite. At this point in the investigation, 'it', as they say, is going down! Artist: Nutritious [tentative] Endless Pursuer [“PURSUER PART4” (Endless Pursue); ENDLESS PURSUER; Untitled part of PLEASURE OF TENSION (<<Intrusion ~Battle at JUNKER HQ>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD The fourth “Pursuer” deals mostly in aftermath, the result of an action or discovery. The protagonists are in “Okay, what now?” mode. Danger Dance... & Justice for All [“ACTION” (Danger Dance...and Justice for all); DANGER DANCE...& JUSTICE ALL; DANGER DANCE…& JUSTICE ALL (<<Intrusion ~ Shooting Mode>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD Action sequence! Open fire with your Blaster™! ATTENTION: The following four source tunes feature variations on Snatcher's original “TITLE” melody - basically the game's theme song – heard in most of the important non-gameplay scenes. Any arrangements of each track must be as distinct as possible from one another. Theme of Snatcher, Part 2: Faded Memories [“TITLE PART3” (Faded Memories); AD 2042 NEO KOBE CITY; THEME OF SNATCHER [PART 2] (JUNKER HQ <<Arrival After Jean's Death>> BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE Theme of Snatcher, Part 3: Peace of Mind [“TITLE PART5” (Peace of Mind); THEME OF SNATCHER [PART 3] (ACT 2 Opening BGM); Theme of SNATCHER (PART 2)] PC88 | MSX2 | ZOOM Faded Memories: Theme of Randam [“TITLE PART2” (Theme of RANDAM); FADED MEMORIES; FADED MEMORIES (<<RANDAM Appearance BGM>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | ZOOM Theme of J.U.N.K.E.R. [“TITLE PART1” (Theme of JUNKER); THEME OF JUNKER; THEME OF JUNKER (<<To>> JUNKER HQ)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE Theme of Jaime [“JAIME” (Theme of JAIME); THEME OF JAIME; THEME OF JAIME (<<Jaime's Theme>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | ZOOM (Unused) Gillian exchanges pleasantries with his estranged wife Jaime (Jamie) over the videophone. Innocent Girl [“KATRINE PART1” (Innocent Girl); INNOCENT GIRL; INNOCENT GIRL (<<Katharine BGM>>); THEME OF KATHERINE #1 (<<Katherine's Theme 1 BGM>>) ] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD Introducing Katherine (Katrina), the beautiful young daughter of Jean Jack Gibson; how young depends whether you cared if Selena Gomez or Hayden Panetierre were adults or not. Decadence Beat [“JOY DIVISION” (Decadence Beat); DECADENCE BEAT; DECADENCE BEAT (<<Joy Division Store BGM>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD Joy Division, the store with everything, however odd or perverted... right up Gillian's alley. Kind of a 'Cantina' vibe in the source tune. Theme of Izabella, Part 1: The Entrance to Hell [“OUTER HEAVEN1” (The Entrance to Hell); THE ENTRANCE TO HELL; THEME OF IZABEL [PART 1] (<<Outer Heaven Club BGM 1>>); THE GATES OF HELL (<<Outer Heaven Club BGM>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE The Outer Heaven club, where VIPs come in masquerade to watch major stars shake their talents. Theme of Izabella, Part 2 [“OUTER HEAVEN2” (Theme of IZABEL); THEME OF IZABEL; THEME OF IZABEL [PART 2] (<<Outer Heaven Club BGM 2>>)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE The famous Isabella Velvet gives a description of a suspected snatcher, if Gillian can stop ogling long enough. Theme of Katherine, Part 2 [“KATRINE PART2” (Theme of katrine); THEME OF KATHARINE; THEME OF KATHARINE [PART 2] (Katharine <<Reminiscence>> BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE An embarrassing bathroom episode segues to an important clue, revealed by Katherine, to the location of the snatchers' hidden network. Spreading Diehard [“SEARCH LIGHT” (Spreading Diehard); SPREADING DIEHARD; SPREADING DIE HARD (Searchlight BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD Metal's flashlight is needed while searching for clues in a pitch-black area of Queen (Queens) Hospital. Blow Up Tricycle [“BLOW UP TRICYCLE”; BLOW UP TRICYCLE; BLOW UP TRICYCLE (<<Runaway>> Spinner BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE Sabotage! Runaway-vehicle-with-no-brakes-do-something-before-we-crash!! Source tune's probably begging to be shredded in some fashion. Morg [“MORTUARY PART1” (Morg); MORG (Morgue BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD A nasty, yet important, find in a hidden area of Queen Hospital: the rotted corpses belonging to the snatchers' most recent victims. Restoration [“RESTORATION”; RESTORATION; RESTORATION (<<Corpse>> Restoration BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD Metal Gear shines in a pivotal scene, scientifically uncovering the victims' identities. Artist: José the Bronx Rican ATTENTION: The following two source tunes cover two scenes depicting great, heroic sacrifice; the titles on both make it impossible to leave out spoilers. Each track's arrangement should distinguish itself from the other. Eternal Promise [“GOODBYE RANDAM” (Eternal Promise); ETERNAL PROMISE (GOODBYE RANDAM); ETERNAL PROMISE [GOOD BYE RANDAM] (<<Battle with Chin>> BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD | ZOOM Good Bye Harry: For Harry [“REQUIEM” (For Harry); GOOD BYE HARRY (Harry's Death)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE Beyond Sorrows [“EPIROGUE” (Beyond Sorrows); BEYOND SORROWS; BEYOND SORROWS (ACT 2 Ending BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | ZOOM Formerly the tragic epilogue, it's the closing scene of Act 2, the realization that our heroes are only just beginning to fight. ATTENTION: The following two source tunes accompany the original credits. There are similarities between them, so either two distinct ReMixes or one incorporating both sources are suitable. At nearly 20 minutes, the PC-8801's “Theme of Ending” was (is?) probably the longest original non-medley track composed for a video game. Nothing stopping an artist from approaching the same run time, but I will have album length considerations, so be careful. Master of Puppets Among the Disease [MASTER OF PUPPETS AMONG THE DISEASE (Ending 1 BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 Theme of Ending (We Have to Struggle for Our Future Against Our Doubt) [“THEME OF ENDING” (We Have to Struggle for Our Future Against Our Doubt); THEME OF ENDING; THEME OF ENDING (Ending 2 BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 One Night in Neo Kobe City [One Night in NEO KOBE CITY] ZOOM On the CD-ROM releases of this game, this track replaces “Twilight of Neo Kobe City” for the opening credits sequence. Artist: AngelCityOutlaw [tentative] J.U.N.K.E.R. HQ [n/a] PCE | SCD Business in and around the headquarters of “Judgement Uninfected Naked Kind & Eliminate Ranger” or “Japanese Undercover Neuro-Kinetic Elimination Ranger”, whichever sounds less silly to you in your native language. Kremlin: Moscow [n/a] PCE | SCD During Act 3, the truth about what happened in Moscow leading up to the Catastrophe. Kremlin: Elijah [n/a] PCE | SCD Elijah's tale of unrequited love, a “forever alone” kind of waltz. Kremlin: Sleep [n/a] PCE | SCD How cryogenic sleep pods, among other things, figure into the story. Act 3 Ending, Part 1 [n/a] PCE | SCD Metal comes to the cute, little, high-pitched rescue - and helps deliver Neo-Kobe’s final solution! Act 3 Ending, Part 2 [n/a] PCE | SCD One last heroic effort to save our protagonists, not to mention all of humankind. Tears Stained Eyes [Tears stained Eyes] ZOOM On the CD-ROM releases of this game, this track replaces “Theme of Ending” for the closing credits sequence. Instantly memorable. ATTENTION: These remaining source tunes are important elements of the original games that can't be arranged on their own, so I would like artists to consider incorporating any of these into their own works if possible. Squeak!! [“SNATCHER TITLE” (Squeak!!); Untitled Part of BIO HAZARD (<<Catastrophe>> BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE (also SCD) The chilling title logo sequence. Evil Ripple [“TITLE TELOP” (Evil Ripple); EVIL RIPPLE; EVIL RIPPLE (Telop BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE (Unused) The original telop music (titles for Acts 1 and 2). Sting Collection [n/a] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE/SCD The original game had one sting, usually following a horrible or life-threatening discovery. Starting with the PC Engine release, up to three more stings had been introduced. Merry X'mas Neo Kobe City (Jingle Bells) [“JINGLE BELL” (Jingle bell 2042); MERRY X'MAS NEO KOBE CITY (Altamira <<Arrival>> BGM)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD Various arrangements of “Jingle Bells” had been used in the Altamira (Alton Plaza) scenes for every release. A ReMix of any of these is not allowed, obviously, but I wouldn't mind a small taste of “Jingle Bells” somewhere, to acknowledge the game's setting (the approaching holiday season). Virtual Image [“TRANSFORM RISA” (Virtual Image); Untitled part of CREEPING SILENCE ~ CRIMINAL OMEN ~ DANGER DANCE...& JUSTICE ALL; Untitled part of DANGER DANCE…& JUSTICE ALL (<<Intrusion>> ~ Shooting Mode)] PC88 | MSX2 | PCE | SCD Lisa Nielsen reveals herself, but not in the way Gillian would've wanted; another hollaback to Blade Runner. “DIE, Junker!!” Clue [n/a] PCE | SCD Starting with the PC Engine release, this jingle rings whenever a relevant clue or plot point is revealed.
  9. Surely the end of an era. Definitely some bloat on recent builds (also don't dig constant upgrade notices), so it's not on my vital 'studio' systems, but for convenient VGM discovery (thanks to the best plugins and Dave's Chipamp project) I gotta have it, currently on a couple laptops. That's at least until foobar approaches the same level of quality and quantity with their VGM plugins. I maybe would like to see a final update to Chipamp to keep things at their most current before the end, especially with the huge improvements on in_vgm since last update.
  10. There may be some 'fair use' protection, but obviously I'm no expert. My general MO would be to try to use as little of anything 'official' as possible (a few seconds of music should be fine).
  11. Really, the hardest part was all the processing to keep low-res video from looking like crap upscaled to HD (imagine if we didn't have that 2011 release). Not to mention all that tedious masking for Sonic's 'warps'.
  12. Agreed here: production/editing will be key in that regard. I've said before, execution will make all the difference. We'd like for 'eval' and 'approval' to be out of the equation, so do your best to 'bring it.' I hope video obligations leave me alone long enough to gather my own ideas here.
  13. I'm sure we all realize maybe a quarter of the entire Internet VGM fanbase has been looking for him before this revelation. Now? Maybe all of it. He likely wants to be let alone until he's either a) ready or legally authorized.
  14. Another interesting question: What are the exact songwriting credits on the original "Hard Times"? If we check the notes on the "Complete Jetzons" compilation, will we find only Brad Buxer, or were there other people involved? I saw Bruce Connole listed as a writer for the band along with Buxer, but nothing on indiv. tracks.
  15. Legit connection win. Now, about Retro's ridiculous assertion that Hall and Oates' "I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)" was sampled for Sonic CD's "Boss!!"...
  16. "Placeholder" was my first thought too. Anyhow, cool, and big thanks to Alex for easing my workload again. He's more than qualified to continue, in my viewpoint. I'll probably seldom exercise my imaginary 'right of first refusal'.
  17. Blame me for that one if you like. I moved quickly in the middle of five other urgent video projects to list revisions for the video. I saw the director credit, I asked the staff, "Huh?", and I was told "Strader", but I didn't consider pressing for absolute confirmation. It apparently bears repeating that it doesn't get more sinister than that. I'll see what we can do.
  18. Sunday, September 8th? Making sure; I wanna try to make it. OK, correct at the bottom; fix the top
  19. Now you know: that was such a strong track, my decision was made immediately to use it for the trailer. Then the inspirations started flowing from that and from the album cover, followed by Dave's ideas on playing up the evolution concept big-time. Easily one of my favorite trailer projects.
  20. Using "Nearest Neighbor" to scale things any higher than double-sized is a bit of overkill IMO. I believe in some softening of your average video game image: if you were originally at 224px vertical, 448px vertical should be good enough even for HD, but then I believe 1080p for an HD video featuring this kind of footage would also be overkill. Pixels were never meant to be blown that large.
  21. I found an extremely good deal years ago at B&H on a boxed bundle of Vegas 5 and Sound Forge 8 for about that much. I couldn't pass it up. Went broke for a while after that purchase, but it was worth it. Been using ever since.
  22. I don't recall any Heath outrage. Wouldn't understand it, because I haven't noticed any bad work from him in his career, so why not Joker? Affleck, on the other hand, has already proven quite capable of mucking things, however well he's done with some of his other works, and I can see that driving the outrage. Imagine if they picked Rob Schneider.
  23. VideoPad should be non-linear: it basically means the work is non-destructive, in which the original media assets are not affected or altered in any way by what you do to them in the timeline, so you can create as many new files or projects as you want using the original files. Obviously a better solution than in the old days of duping VHS tapes, or even older days of splicing film.
  24. Here's a list from one of my favorite resources... non-linear editors in order of aggregate user rating: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/video-editors-advanced?orderby=Rating VideoPad seems like a nice piece of software apart from your crash issues. PowerDirector may have its own crash issues according to some of the comments. In case your situation doesn't work out, maybe one of these can help you.
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