The Damned

Nah, more like this. But with slapping.

I actually sold it on eBay, so never mind!

Sorry Gario... no one asked for it until now. I would ask Jack to use his wisdom to accurately predict when someone would ask for a condensed version, but he's busy fighting the good fight that is... is... that thing he's against. Or for. I can't tell anymore. Don't you have to begin doing something before you can continue doing it later?

For Circles, because he asked for it: Jack: Game companies are evil and mean because they offer their products at really high prices. They should drop the prices because lower price = more sales, and that totally realistic from what I learned at some school I haven't mentioned, but trust me, that's how it works. Us: No, that is not how economics work. Jack: WARRRRGHABBBGGGARRRLLLLEE Catholic church said capitalism is a sin, and those guys rape boys so it must be bad! Us: That... that isn't even a reasonable argument. Why would you even say that? Jack: Anyone that pays for Madden is stupid and paying for the same game over and over makes you stupid. It could have been done entirely as DLC! Frat-boy stupidheads! Us: That argument could be used for any game, but it's not that simple a matter. Regardless, it's makes more sense for them to sell content as a new game, since they know it will generate more profit for them. You talk about knowing how businesses work, but you want them to hamstring themselves. Jack: STUPID FRAT BOYS! YOU'RE ALL STUPID FRAT-BOYS! FOOLS AND IDIOTS, YOU, and you and you are. And you in the back. Personal insults towards members of the site. Us: Jesus christ, young man, calm the fuck down. Jack: Most games could have been done as DLC for existing games, like pokemon, I made a game in my first year computer course of some kind that would have been exactly like it, except it had no characters, plot, battle system, weapons inventory or anything like a game,but since it was sooooo modular,it would have taken anything we gave it. Damned will back me up, because I'm sure I've convinced him that I am right and he likes something I'm using as an example! Me: The fuck I will. Us (specifically those with actual programming experience): No. That's not how it works. You can't just throw stuff in. Also, why would anyone not sale a new game and make more money when they have that much more to offer? You would make games more stagnant by having no new games and just sticking more data onto older games. Jack: YOU DON'T KNOW HOW GAMES AND MONIES WORK, OK? Shut up, you tools and then something about how religion is wrong. Us: ok, you know what? Just shut up now. Darkesword: Oh god, this is fucking stupid, time to move it to its own thread and let it burn itself out. STOP RUINING SEPHFIRE'S THREAD. Jack: WARRRGGLELBBBALALLE! I'm just trying to convince one person out there of my views, and even if I have everyone else prove me wrong over and over, if I can get just one person to BELIEVE IT, it's all worth it! Us: The only thing you've done is make your entire position look worse. Jack: I'm too busy to reply right now, I'm not butthurt at all. Got to attend something or other... Be back later! Us:

No, that would be intentionally mean, and not the sort of things that inspires true discussion. We must act accordingly, and be above such behavior. Also, that would result in many lulz and we would have to start breaking out the popcorn gifs, like this one. But that wouldn't be very nice, so let's not do that, shall we?

So, I'm salty(?), a tool, weak, being used, ignorant and in need of education by yourself because I'm wrong, I ignore the wonderful facts you espouse, and... let me check... no, that's about it. The religion comment doesn't apply to me, but it obviously does to some here. You go on with that. I hope the replies you get are at least as courteous as the ones you give. Protip: personal attacks do not make you look rational or informed. They weaken your position and only make your position look worse. If you really, truly wanted to give people new ideas or outlooks on this matter, you're done nothing but the opposite.

Good luck with that. The hundred million other people around that world that buy the games won't participate with you, but hey, they will be busy playing what is being touted as the best of the series to date. Hell, it was the first Pokémon game that got a 40.40 from Famitsu. Yes, yes, "Famitsu scores don't mean anything anymore" and all that. That doesn't change the fact taht it has, on average, scored very high, and some reviews rank it higher than any of the other generations. Not every company screws their people. Bioware is actually a nice place to work at. They have nice offices, great break rooms, and are flexible with family issues and timetables for projects. Before you ask, yes, I do know some of them, and I have been to their offices before, on several occasions. My cousin Tracy is married to one of the writers, I went to school with a few of the current staff, and I have a friend that went to school with others of the staff. I've met both Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk personally, I even interviewed them for a pre-entry requirement at another school. Trust, me, Bioware aren't like EA is supposed to be. Nintendo, MS and Blizzard, all big names, offer all kinds of support for their workers. They don't shit on them, they don't treat them like shit,and they aren't like EA. In fact, I'd say that there more "nice" companies than there are shitty ones. As for screwing the customer... how are they doing that? You want to make these broad claims, start backing them up with some examples. Otherwise you're just painting everything as being bad "just because".

I never said it couldn't be done. Your first year level shows that. I'm saying that they haven't before, and they most likely wouldn't in the future. You know why? The very topic (now) being discussed here. Economics. Why would any company produce that much new content, and then take the option to only give it away as DLC? They stand a much better chance of making more money by selling it with new aesthetic material as well, call it a new game, charging a full price for it. That's just good business sense.

On-topic comic.

Yeah,i lead you on. Entirely. You started it with faulty arguments and incredibly ridiculous statements, like how capitalism was a sin and how priests rape boys, which had nothing to do with the subject. You railed against businesses you have no understanding about, how business works (despite people that do run businesses telling you otherwise) or what it takes to makes games. You insulted and make personal attacks without reason against everyone that said anything you disagreed with. And you were just lead on into it? You don't get to act all cool after that kind of behavior. Fuck you. Sorry for treading on your show, Sephfire. But bullshit needs to get called on.

OK, no. Shut up. I would not back you up on this. You don't get how the game mechanics work. It's a complex system, you don't just add shit to it and expect it to work. The games uses a lot of memory. A LOT. Try saving on your DS games. Even with newer ones with faster saving still take a long time to so it. And that's not counting the overworld map and all the other stuff like audio and sprites. The biggest problem with just adding pokemon, is that the game itself is designed to only work with the set number of pokemon up to that point. The GBA games were made to take pokemon 001 to pokemon 386. They can't just throw another bunch on there. The game was only designed to support that many. The same goes for the DS games. DPPt and HGSS were only designed to support the pokemon that existed up to that point. Same with gen 5: only up to that point. This is because, despite what some kid will tell you on GameFAQs, they don't have a thousand pokemon already designed and ready to go. They don't. This is not true, and I wish people would stop saying this. It's supposed to have been from an interview with some of the Game Freak staff, but no one has ever been able to produce said interview. They create the new pokemon when they start work on the new games. Sometimes, they have ones that get cut from one generation and used in the next (namely, Shellos. It had data for it in RSE, but was not implemented for some reason. The data can be accessed, but it doesn't really do much). Any way, because they don't know what kind of pokemon they will make in the future, they can't prepare the game to accept it later as some sort of download. Even the event-based, super-rare legendaries, like Mew and Shaymin, are still coded into the game. They just don't appear unless something triggers it. Now, the data for each individual pokemon may be modular, and the games are designed to apply said data to their engine (which is how a pokemon from Gen 3 can be used in Gen4 and 5), but that's only because the games were made to do so. What you're suggesting is that they make an engine that can be readily modified to accept new data of unknown content (new sprites, moves and abilities for each new pokemon) of an unknown number (how many new pokemon should they add this time? ten? One? Two hundred?) of new entries, just so you can... what? Play the exact same map again, with a slightly different roster? A least each new game adds new music, maps, characters and things to do. No to mention the changes to the stat, battle and move/ability systems to address balance and play. Aside from the programming thing, there's the issue of hardware. By your logic, we should still be playing Pokémon on the GBA, because it could have been patched to include the new pokemon. I mean, fuck the new lands and characters that each gen brings. Fuck the new music. Fuck the streamlining they do for play balance. Fuuuuuuck the new hardware Nintendo just came out with, because they should have DLC for the GBA. Even if they did it for the DS, you have a very big hurdle to get over first. Even then, you still have a slightly bigger roster set in the exact same setting. You would actually make pokemon more stagnant then it already seems. Good job! You've fixed everything!

Well, there's a quote tornado coming down in that last post before yours, so it could be directed at either the quoted, or the quoting, or both. Too many quote boxes... too many posts. This is getting a little hard to track. But man, did Sephfire ever get a lot of this week's episode. EDIT: Holy shit, the Escapist thread for this episode is 900+ posts. Sephfire, you rabble-raiser, you!

Are... are you talking about me, or Jack? If you meant me, I was using those as examples of how a generalized statement can be applied to other examples. Specifically, how one game series could be done with DLC because it doesn't change much. It was all in jest of Jack's comment from before. I'm probably the biggest Pokémon fan here, what with that remix album and all the trading and news updates I do. If you meant Jack, then never mind, carry on.

I can. Left 4 Dead 2 was basically a major upgrade to Left 4 Dead 1. All the new weapons, especially the melee weapons, could have been part of L4D1, but I think time constraints prevented it. L4D2 fixed that by being made. As for Portal...

EDIT: We're turning Sephfire's video series thread into some sort of dumping ground. Jack, you've openly insulted members here for games they like. You've admitted to pirating music from people who happen to be members here. You've made comments that show you only, at best, partially know what you're talking about. You've even gotten into pissing contests with people that are far better suited for it, what with their personal, hands-on experience. I'm sorry to say it, but I fear for your time here. At best, this will end with a fair bit of resentment on both sides. At worst, I fear a banning or two. (Not mini-modding) I'll see you guys around. I suspect this is going to end , at the very least, entertainingly.

You mean besides Valve? Why are their zombies? Not headcrab zombies, but zombie-zombies. That doesn't fit at all. They had the means to put in holographic 3D effects, weapons fire, explosives, highlighted devices, and they did a good job on the Combine soldiers... but no headcrab zombies? That fight doesn't fit very well. It's done nicely, but it doesn't fit with the context. I can't tell if this is a case of it being Half-Life with a fight forced into it, or a fight that is having Half-Life forced upon it. This could have been completely unrelated to Half-Life, and it would have been just as good.

As a Canadian, I'd like to point out that we have pretty good healthcare coverage. Even if you go into a private clinic, the government still picks up the tab for it. Come on, Zircon. Join us. We have pancakes and bacon as our national foods, and the climate isn't that much different from Philadelphia. Our winters can be much more mild, and our summers can get just as hot, depending upon where you are. Did I mention the all the free maple syrup you can carry? How about a dog sled team for your personal amusement?

So... I'm a stupid frat boy? And a few people I know, who hold very non-frat boy jobs like telecommunications, website design, newspaper layout, and my own line of work, non-destructive testing (based upon engineering standards and requiring both math and physics skills), are also stupid frat boys? I'm not a continuous player of the series by any definition, but I have played it before. Others, including members here, I would like to point out, are players of those games, and I think they would be insulted by that comment. You know, Zircon said something about you seeming to have issues with the companies, rather than with the games pricing. I can see that quite plainly now. You're not mad about pricing; you're mad about the companies. Did you get turned down by all the big studios or something? Did they personally anger you or do something that affected you in some way other than prices? Also, the things you said about economists comes off as almost hateful as well. Are you just venting because of bad experiences with one or more? Seriously, it's coming off like that. I'd also like to point out that most of the time, when people buy a game, they do so in an actual brick-and-mortar store. A store that isn't owned by the developers or publishers of said games. Did any of you take into consideration of the amount the store charges for the games? I beat some of that money isn't the publisher, but the store trying to make money as well. Why aren't you arguing that the stores should lower prices as well, because they're part of the problem. You started this by using very basic economic theory to support your argument, and now you're using "video game rulesets", which are make up for a system that was itself made, entirely in the imaginations of those making them, to be made into a virtual world that doesn't exist in our actual, physical world, to back your argument up. Are you sure this is the path of logic you wish to follow? I'm asking because this may very well open yourself up to all kinds of counterpoints, as well as outright heckling from the masses. You're making poor arguments and offering poor defenses for them. As for "the evidence wins" thing, I like to point out the theory of the flat Earth. All the evidence in the world at various points in history proved it was so. So... how did that turn out? No to mention string theory, as well as quantum theory. All the empirical evidence says it can't work, and shouldn't work in any way. But here we have physical experiments that indicate they do exist and do work they way we think they do. So... what about that?

How's this: basic theories of economics applied to complex real world economic systems don't work, because said complex systems are complex. There are hundreds of other factors involved, like politics, materials, demand... Anything that difficult to follow and get into can't just be looked at with an easy solution or explanation. There is a reason why being an economist is a career, and not a hobby. You have to send time to learn these things. Hell, even just a beginner-level class will show you how complicated it is, and that's not even a full-blown, multi-year graduate course at an actual school that specializes in economics. On the subject of personal greed, it is a known factor of people. Everyone has experienced greed, be it themselves or been the victim of another person's greed. Sephfire said it already: a lot of people are claiming all kinds of reasons why they don't wan to pay for the games, but they want to play them any way. It's totally disingenuous and it's bullshit. They aren't downloading the games to make asocial message; they're downloading them to get shit for free. As for my "arrogance", call it what you want. Jack spouted obviously flawed points and I called him on them. If you think that's bad, just read what Zircon is giving him: point for point counters, and he's doing a damn good job of it. Oh hey! Look at Zircon and Jack's posts. They're both patronizing caps. Hell, in just one of Jack's posts, I counted 13 uses of unnecessary caps use. 13 in one post! Are you going to call them out as well? EDIT: I'd like to also point out that one of the most successful series ever made is Madden, a game where each version is barely any different from the previous, costs lots of money to make, and sells insanely well despite it's flaws and the company that makes it. How do you respond to that, Jack?

No! I looked it up and that's how it's spelled and I used it correctly in a sentence and everything! Out of curiosity, what were the going rates for rooms the last few years, if anyone can remember. At least tell me what this year was.

I take it that next year's MAGFest will also be in January. If so, I maybe able to finagle my way into at ending, assuming costs aren't too high. Also, "finagle" isn't showing up as a spelling error in Firefox. That means it's an actual word, and I spelled it right without trying!

Burnaby is twelve hours too far for me to take advantage of it. Enjoy it. I know some of the people here have the Japanese version, but I want to hear your impressions of it.

Two news bits for all of us non-American members. First, Norway! Guess what? You get a Celebi event next month! http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Norway_Celebi_distribution_announced Canadians! If you live near Burnaby, BC or Mississauga, Ontario, you can play the demos of Black and White in mid February. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Canadian_Black_and_White_Sampling_Tour_announced Yeah... sucks for those of us that live in any other part of the country. Enjoy your slightly earlier access to the games.

I'm still hoping that the battery life can be longer with changing the settings. I don't know about you, but I don't think I would have StreetPass and SpotPass on all the time. I'm only going to have it running when I go around town.

You're assuming that all those bad games don't sell, and don't make money. Even the shittiest app game on your iPhone gets a few thousand people buying them, and that's tens of thousands of dollars in someone's pocket. Shovelware sells, and it always will. It's just the way things work. No company will cut out their cheap, quick and dirty products when people willingly buy them again and again. First, most games these days cost millions to make. MILLIONS. Higher price tags at the store are there to help ensure they recover that cost as much and as quickly as possible. How many of those games must a studio sell to recover the investment? I don't know. But I'm willing to bet it's a lot. Every one that sells for $60 is doing them more good than every one that sells for $40. Also, I have to point out your incredibly simple approach to economics. You say the economists don't teach "lower price = more sales". This is for a good reason. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY IN REAL LIFE. Dropping the price only works in very specific circumstances. If it did work like that, everything in the world would be a lot cheaper. Cars, house, food, everything would be cheaper. That's hardly the most likely cause for piracy. I'd say it the fact that humans like to get things for nothing. We love it when something just falls into our laps. We love it when we can get around the work and effort it takes to get something. If you get food simply by picking it up, that a lot easier and instantly satisfying than having to do something for it. Personal greed is what motivates piracy. Do other reason factor in? Yes, of course. But personal greed is the real reason.