Why, it's another FF remix! Battle Scene for FF 1.

[SplinterOfChaos]

I'm pretty sure that everyone gets all shivery-back whenever someone does another Final Fantasy remix. So here it is!

Version one

Version one

Version two (supposedly improved)

Version three (definitely improved)

The I-don't-know-about-the-violence version

The I-know-about-the-violins version

The I might be calling it quits for a while version

http://www.willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=15279

I made this as a learning exercise. My songs tend to repeat over and over, and get better and better until the end, but never go anywhere. Listening to other songs didn't help stop this habit. Doing a remix did...unless I start again during my next project.

Any way, I really like how this came out. You should note the pitch is higher, I've almost completely ignored what Uematsu did with the background (I'm so ashamed), and I've done some reordering/changing to the melody. I find a lot of remixes try to make a song more ambient, but I much prefer a melodic tune, so I kept it that way. I also noted that the genius of Uematsu is how simple the original (and all of his songs, really) was. I did not feel I could compose with the same simplicity, so I didn't.

I feel there are weak points, but I'll leave it to you guys to find them. Although, I am concerned with pitch a few times.

[Rozovian]

Yougottabekiddingme, use mp3 (or ogg), _not_ wav. Seriously, it's gonna take me half an hour to download it. I don't have that kind of time, and neither do most ppl here.

Saw your hello in the introductory thread, was expecting you to show up here on the WIP board, but not this soon. Welcome to ocr!

[SplinterOfChaos]

Woah, I uploaded the wrong file!

Stop downloading that immediately!

BBCode:

I'll update my original post with the correct download as well.

[Rozovian]

I'm currently too lazy to look up the source, so I'll comment on how interpretive this is some other time.

The mixing needs loads more work. Decide what needs to be heard, and drop the volume on everything else. You've got a volume drop at 1:47 or something, sounds great for the little while it was, as your wip is cluttered with stuff. Hard to what's good and bad when it's all just a mess.

Once you've set rough levels, deal with the frequencies. You've got a pretty nice range, but the bass drum, not a separate bass, is responsible for most of the low range stuff. You need a bass too, so add one of lower one of your existing tracks an octave or two.

The snare really bothers me. Note velocities! Please, it's currently a snare song. Once again, decide what hits are important and lower volume (velocity) on the rest.

The track isn't _too_ repetitive, but your could vary the melody a lot to make it less repetitive. There's a general lack of dynamics, everything is loud and in-your-face (or -ears). Step away and look at it, what should be the most intense parts of the remix? Make the other parts a little lighter.

This is interesting tho. I'll comment more later, but this should get you started on things to change and improve.

[Bozlifyme]

this is one of my favorite themes from the FF series. I definitely like the distorted guitar or whatever but it is way cluttered for most of the song. On the right track and im interested to see where this goes.

[Dr. Rod]

Arrangement wise, this is interesting and shows a lot of potential. Its really the production thats holding things back, things get cluttered in some places to where its hard to tell whats the main instrument. Work on using mixing (volume, panning, eq, etc.) to really bring out what you want to be the main focus. I like where the arangement takes things, and Id love to see more later on. Keep at it!

[Evfan42]

also later, in your final or close to it, you should find something for the guitar that doesn't so... FLslayer-ish, if you want to go all out get and record an actual guitar, but it does sound good, just too midi like.

michael

[SplinterOfChaos]

also later, in your final or close to it, you should find something for the guitar that doesn't so... FLslayer-ish, if you want to go all out get and record an actual guitar, but it does sound good, just too midi like.

michael

Would you like to do it? Or do you know someone who would for free? I do actually know someone who plays guitar and maybe he'd do me this favor, but how could I guaranty it would sound similar enough?

I hadn't actually thought of doing any REAL guitar work, but I don't know it's plausible either.

Anyway, a good amount of work in a short time has lead me to this:

There was a lot more variety added to the chorus. You might notice a little else where also. The drums have been quited; I haven't added an extra base yet. I've messed around a little with panning and volume, but I might have made things worse. I was thinking of adding another instrument to play for unique occasions, but haven't done that yet either.

I'll still leave the original up because frankly, I think I've gone def and I don't know what makes it better or worse at this point. Trying to comply with feedback in a way that I like it more is the only real challenge this project has been.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll try to work a little harder/longer on the next version. Hope to (at least) work on it every day, but it is just a side hobby, my main one being programming, and my priority being student.

[Evfan42]

Would you like to do it? Or do you know someone who would for free? I do actually know someone who plays guitar and maybe he'd do me this favor, but how could I guaranty it would sound similar enough?

Actually I cannot play the guitar very well, but if you need any help with percussion i have 7 years of experience there.

you can e-mail me at evfan42@gmail.com

michael

[Rozovian]

Best way to deal with feedback is to read it as you lsiten to your own track, and then fixing what you agree with. Then make a backup, and try out everything else. If it sounds better, keep it. If not, don't.

Anyway, the snare is much better here. Lacks punch at the palces where it shoudl be louder, but most of the time it's a good level. There's a fair amount of personalization, which is good.

It feels a bit off-center with the guitar pretty strong in the right channel. Drop volume a bit on that, except when you really want to use it in conjunction with another loud, rude, and distorted instrument.

The soundscape isn't bad, but it's pretty repetitive. Vary it according to some invisible dramatic curve where at times the remix is more mellow, at times rocking ppl's socks off. Vary the sounds more, but make sure to do it smoothly. Some WIPs suffer instrumental medley-itis (mine having been one of them), changing instruments way too often and not in very good ways. See what you can do about the soundscape.

Overall, this is pretty close to source, but enough of your own touch. At this point, it's not refined enough, arrangement and productionwise, to be accepted by the judges, but you're on the right track. Looking forward to your next update, whenever that is.

[Hausdog]

I'm having a hell of a time putting what I want to say into words. Here goes.

I love the glockenspiel(?) with all the other instruments. The buzzy fake guitar actually sounds good in my opinion. I listened to both, and the first one was arranged slightly better. The second one sounded like you were forcing yourself to deviate from the source in parts. I like this a lot right now.

[SplinterOfChaos]

I love the glockenspiel(?) with all the other instruments.

Glass bells actually.

OK. I pretty much went through and changed the volumes around independent of the patterns. One big balancing act. So, I hope you guys think the emphasis's work better now.

Yesterday, I couldn't tell what was making the song good, and what was making it bad. At the time, I was just confused, but today, I found that the confusion rooted from half of what I was doing being good, half bad. So, today I kept half, lost half, and went a little more back to the original in terms of the chorus. I really like it this way, and I hope you'll all agree.

Evfan42:

Thanks for the offer. Not sure how I'd extract the beat from FL and hand it over, or whether you could just go by ear and improvisation (which I am fond of). Either way, I'll get back to you later. Thanks again.

Rozovian:

So, I googled soundscape and I think I get what you mean. The song sounds the same, the whole way through, right? Well, I might agree to a limited extent. On one hand, I think it's the song, on the other, I don't know music, I just do it--so I'm ignorant to what it could be like.

Was your suggestion basically to introduce another instrument in an isolated part and take out a heavily used one, or did it have more to do with the mood?

[Rozovian]

Dunno if soundscape means what it's come to mean here, and I make no promises I'm using the word right anyway. Mood is a good word for it, but mood can be changed by just changing chord progression, when you change the soundscape, it's more overall. The soundscape is more about the sounds (synths, samples) themselves, and when each of them play.

An example would be People Made of Stone that startes off with a very ethnic soundscape, then turns into another genre. The feel changes completely. That's a drastic example, but you get the idea. Another example would be Obsessión Nocturnal, with a few more changes throughout.

Then again, just swapping a piano for a marimba is enough to change the soundscape. Or a flute for a fiddle. Or backing strings to glass bells. Or on a piano only, going from deep dark low bass chords to light and soft single key bass and octave or two up. Or rhythm, going from obsessing about the snare to triplets on the ride is also a soundscape change.

That's soundscape, you just gotta find what's appropriate for your remix. Make half way through, you can start switching out instruments for softer ones, and then return all the sharper and tougher ones at the grande finale. I don't know what you _should_ do, but mix up the soundscape a bit. Nothing too drastic, subtle is usually best.

Your new WIP is a step in the right direction, methinks.

[SplinterOfChaos]

I've made a lot of small improvements, and changed the soundscape for one section, and even liked it!...but I just don't know. I can't take it out because I like it, but I just don't really know about it.

I think I'd rather change the soundscape constantly like the latter link in your post, Rozovian. But I don't really know how to go about that seeing as I like what I've done and don't want to destroy it. The reason I was able to change the soundscape at that one point was just because I thought it was weak anyway.

EDIT

After listening to an older version of my song, I miss the violins, so I'm keeping 'em!

[Rozovian]

When I started with music, I used trackers. Trackers are pattern-based sequencers, meaning I'd do a 64-step pattern, then another, then put them in whatever order I wanted. I came a cross a resource called the Tracker's Handbook or something like that. It said "never repeat patterns".

Your rhythmic variation makes this easier to listen to, but there's still a persistant repetition that you're using. Try muting some instruments and just listen to the lead and one other instrument at a time, see what soundscaping ideas you cna come up with.

Also, 1:29 and forth is pretty beepy. While it's variation, I'd dampen those, dropm them an octave, and make them less beepy.

The drums are not as bad as I make them sound with this comment. They need more variation, as it's pretty much the same upbeat rhythm throughout. It's not that you don't vary it, it's more that the variation doesn't change enough before it changes back. Are you using a shaker as a hihat? Try using a ride in some sections, try using just bass drum and cymbals in one section, try stuff like that out.

The 1:44 volume drop is good, make sure to keep it. Just sayin'.

Ideas for spicing it up and varying stuff:

-leave out the guitar for a bit

-use triplets in fills

-leave out the snare

-add pads

-play a section at half speed

-leave out the melody and do something cool with the other instruments

There's some stuff to try out, see what you like, use what you want to. Make a backup before doing anything drastic, tho.

[SplinterOfChaos]

It seems I usually like to hear the feedback, fix the song, then post it and see what people think. Well, I came here with a song, and was surprised to see feedback!

Well here's the song. A general fix to a lot of different problems with the song, and some new stuff added. A very little bit of more advice followed when I came here and saw the feedback.

Another reason I'm posting this now instead of the fixed version is just that that's quite some shopping list you've given me. Most of which, I think might be interesting. I'm almost tempted to make the song do another go-around to accomplish all you suggest (or even just some of it).

But, I'm going to be pretty adamant on the repetition thing when it comes to the chorus. It's both the base of the song, and the area that most highlights my faithfulness to the original. At one point, I went and made every part of the chorus unique, but one said it sounded forced, I agreed, and didn't like a lot of it anyway. Now, I want to have at least one repetition of the main theme in the chorus for every one.

But fixing the repetition else where, I'm fine with.

Making the violins less high pitched made them less central for that part. I'm not actually sure which I like more. I think it just narrows down to "FL has terrible violin synth."

BTW: I use the hihat. I was planning on adding a base drum, but actually forgot.

[Rozovian]

Ultimately, the purpose of the WIP forums isn't to act as your musical spellcheck, but to help you notice stuff yourself. If you choose to ignore the advice, that's fine, as long as you understand why we say what we say. That way, you'll learn to listen to your WIPs in a new way, one more fruitful. Hopefully.

So it's not like we get mad if you don't do as we say. It's _your_ remix, and _you_ will be hearing the YES or the NO from the judges after you've submitted it. If out advice helps you, good for you.

The repetition issues I've got with this piece aren't as much in the melodies themselves, but rather in the overall sound. From 0:07 to 2:15, it's pretty much the same sound. Nobody can say you're not consistent, but it gets boring to listen to. Listen to the deviations from source, the soundscaping, and whatever else you can think of, that DarkeSword does/uses in his remixes. With 20 remixes on OCR, you can learn some stuff from him. Compare familiar sources to his remixes of them to learn.

--

Bla, bla, bla. This WIP doesn't really ad much new. It's a bit too late at night for me to focus on the details in mixing and such, but the impression I got was that you've done a common newb mistake - changed melody to try to be less repetitive.

The melody isn't the problem, it's the repetitive nature of the track that is. Use more breaks from melody, use other chords, other drum patterns etc. Think about the progression you want the remix to have.

The WIP is way too short to be this repetitive, so you need to do a lot of soundscaping. Seriously man, you have a very simple XABCABCA progression (intro part, part A, part B, part C, part A...), and each repetition of each part sounds about the same. When do you want the song to sound the coolest? Where should the calm before the storm be? How should the transition from one part to another differ from the same transition elsewhere in the track.

I have a track in the sd3 project that progresses in pretty much the same order as the original, but there's velocity changes, tempo changes, instrumental changes, rhythm changes, intensity changes... soundscaping. Add breaks, fills, and drumrolls, and you've got yourself a pretty neat piece.

So while forced melody modifications aren't gonna work, soundscaping should do a better job at mixing it up. Regardless of how much of my comments you've got the patience to read, regardless of how much you've got the motivation to implement, good luck. I'm looking forward to your next bigger update.

[HoboKa]

Yougottabekiddingme, use mp3 (or ogg), _not_ wav. Seriously, it's gonna take me half an hour to download it. I don't have that kind of time, and neither do most ppl here.

Saw your hello in the introductory thread, was expecting you to show up here on the WIP board, but not this soon. Welcome to ocr!

I'll second that, welcome aboard mah boy, just make sure that you export your stuff into MP3 format dude lol.

[HoboKa]

Hm, idc that the guitar sample is poor, but I think you need to make the guitar well...do MORE than just go on the offbeat. make it play its own melody, the bass should be the thing doing the offbeat thing if at all IMO. This is kinda well...generic, I guess this isn't bad but still it's not very interesting, you gotta give this a lot more oomph and energy. Nice try though, don't get discouraged eh.

[Hausdog]

This is probably the only song I've heard in recent memory where I have no idea where it came from. Seriously. I mean, it's not like other songs where I go, "Okay, I see how you got that." I have no idea how you got this from the original, and I think it's cool. I wish I had more to say, except that I want the guitar, and I'm dead serious because it's useful for another mix I'm gonna work on.

[SplinterOfChaos]

Well, I've made another.

http://www.willhostforfood.com/access.php?fileid=15279

note: There's a little glitch near the beginning, it'll be fixed by the time you listen to this.

Better? I don't know if I can do much more with the soundscape. I tried everything on that list 6 posts down, and only was able to change one part. I'm also not sure how much more I can do at my skill level. But I am still willing to try for a while.

I wish I had more to say, except that I want the guitar...

FL Slayer, POWER Dire Straits. I think that's the one you want. But all the guitars I used are FL with the exception of a nylon, which was sytrus.

...I think you need to make the guitar well...do MORE than just go on the offbeat. make it play its own melody, the bass should be the thing doing the offbeat thing if at all IMO. This is kinda well...generic ... Nice try though, don't get discouraged eh.

I'm assuming that most people making generic stuff have been doing this longer, so I find it a compliment seeing as I'm fairly new. Although, the guitar ALWAYS has a melody of its own. Could you point to a specific part of the song where you feel A SPECIFIC guitar (base or secondary melody) is lacking?

So it's not like we get mad if you don't do as we say.

...

It's a bit too late at night for me to focus on the details in mixing and such, but the impression I got was that you've done a common newb mistake - changed melody to try to be less repetitive.

My main reason for openly disputing advice is either to encourage discussion, or not have you repeat the same advice.

The melody that I changed for that one (I think) was just because I was getting sick of it. I really hope no one is getting as sick of this song as I am!

[Hausdog]

I think this is the best one so far. The organ/electric piano solo turned out very well. Good show!

[Rozovian]

Well, the snare is a little more alive now. This is an improvement, but you seem stuck on some of the bigger problems with it.

A good idea might be to take a step away from arrangement and work on mixing and EQing for a bit. Compare this to (not too old) tracks on OCR that has a similar sound, and take some EQ cues from there. This thread can also give you some pointers about that.

This track doesn't feel elaborate enough in terms of arrangement. I can hear why you're getting tired of it, it's kind'a repetitive. The simple synths and unprocessed samples don't really help that. Step back and focus on the sound. Start a new project wioth some cutouts from this peice and experiment with the sound, the synths, the samples, the mixing and EQ.

That's what I suggest you do.

[SplinterOfChaos]

OK, I think I'm definitely done with this song for now. It's not going to get any better than it is right now if I keep hacking away on it. I'll pick it up again at some point, but done for now.

Thanks very much for all the critiquing. What I learned, through, has actually helped me out a bit on my original projects as well.

I hope I can come back here when I'm more skilled and work this song up some more (after I make more alterations). Thanks again for the feedback.

[HoboKa]

OK, I think I'm definitely done with this song for now. It's not going to get any better than it is right now if I keep hacking away on it. I'll pick it up again at some point, but done for now.

Thanks very much for all the critiquing. What I learned, through, has actually helped me out a bit on my original projects as well.

I hope I can come back here when I'm more skilled and work this song up some more (after I make more alterations). Thanks again for the feedback.

Yeah sometimes it helps that u leave a song alone for a few months, then you come back to it with even better skills and a refreshed ear for the melody

(on a side note) It's hard for me especially because I have ADD so I burn out stuff pretty fast, lol. Jeez look, I already went off topic, leave it to me to do that...*sigh*