Guitar Hero vs. Actual Musical Skills

[benprunty]

Sinewav, I love your point about how the game helps you listen to music more critically. I wrote an article called Listening to Music Intelligently here at

makeshiftmusician.blogspot.com/2008/02/listening-to-music-intelligently.html,

but I didn't think to apply that to Guitar Hero itself. It's particularly interesting if you haven't heard the song before, and you can only listen to it in a critical way.

[sephfire]

One thing that no one has really mentioned (except for Moseph, briefly) is an increased ability to listen to music critically. Now this could easily be argued either way, but I personally believe that Guitar Hero and Rock Band help with this.

Musicians often make comments on music like "That's a tasty bassline," or "I love that little vocal flair." You'll rarely hear non-musicians talk like this. That's because they don't listen to individual parts and (consciously or unconsciously) analyze music like we musicians do.

I think that playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band, while it's still no substitute for actual music skill, allows the regular old laypeople to start developing the beginnings of a musician's mindset toward music.

This. I've gained an appreciation for all the genres of rock music where I used to just listen to a very narrow range. Even my wife has learned to love all kinds of rock just from hearing me play. She's even told me it has taught her to listen to the guitar in rock music and appreciating its intricacies where it used to just blend in to the wall of sound before and vocals were all she focused on. She also said she enjoys hearing me play Rock Band drums because she can hear the complexity of the drums in music where she couldn't before. It's been really interesting seeing her gain new understandings of music just from being around while I'm playing.

It's like second-hand music appreciation or something.

[Kanthos]

Thanks for ignoring every single thing I had to say about it.

Sorry. I was a dick for posting that, although it made some kind of sense in my head somehow. Your actual point is fine. And I will make a point to stay away from posting on the forums on a bad day.

[zykO]

It's like second-hand music appreciation or something.

that's exactly it. GH and RB and the like simply enhance music appreciation... it gives casual music lovers and even more dedicated ones a chance to enjoy a different "listening" experience... a considerably more interactive one - the games aren't designed for musicians (why a lot of musicians tend to be arrogant about the games) but rather the non-musician. it can be greatly enjoyed by a musician (i hate playing the drums on RB but with a bunch of friends and plenty of booze, yeah that shit is fun as hell) but still

also, DANIEL FLOYD - what the heck happened?

[hazardous]

I really don't see why some people are so bitter about Guitar Hero. GH is a game. People play it to have fun. I've never met anyone that claimed that their GH skills translated over to the music realm. Playing guitar hero and playing actual guitar (and music in general) are two different skills and should be treated as such. Whether or not someone plays music is inconsequential for GH and vice versa. Perhaps the two are related; it seems like a distinct possibility, but I really don't know. The point I'm trying to make is that just because someone is amazing at GH doesn't mean they'll be an asshole who thinks they can actually play guitar.

[SenPi]

UGH! Im sick of people talking about how "Rock Band drums translate to real drums so well bla bla bla"

First off, dont get me started on rockbands drums.

Secondly, the hat and snare are in the wrong placed.

Thirdly.. DRUM FREAKING MANIA!!!

Ok, there is NO music game out there that emulates a real instrument as well as drummania.

The reason im upset about ppl talking about rockband so much is because they seem to neglect the Better drum game, which is drummania. Now, granted drummania is pretty much a JPN only thing, but still if people know about DDR/IIDX im sure they have heard about drummania.

lol, and theres my rant of the day.

[sephfire]

UGH! Im sick of people talking about how "Rock Band drums translate to real drums so well bla bla bla"

First off, dont get me started on rockbands drums.

Secondly, the hat and snare are in the wrong placed.

Thirdly.. DRUM FREAKING MANIA!!!

Ok, there is NO music game out there that emulates a real instrument as well as drummania.

The reason im upset about ppl talking about rockband so much is because they seem to neglect the Better drum game, which is drummania. Now, granted drummania is pretty much a JPN only thing, but still if people know about DDR/IIDX im sure they have heard about drummania.

lol, and theres my rant of the day.

So the existence of a similar, superior simulation of drums that exists only in another country negates anything good that can be said about Rock Band's drums? Please.

From what I've seen of DrumMania, it's clearly the better simulation of a real drum set, but that doesn't mean Rock Band's drums aren't also a solid translation from the real thing. And I don't see what about the placement of the snare and hats matters. No one ever said playing Rock Band drums is the exact same as playing real drums. It's not. But many of the rhythmic skills fundamental to succeeding in Rock Band translate very easily to real drums. If you sit a Rock Band enthusiast down at a real kit, he won't feel right at home. But give him a few minutes and he'll be able to bang out some basic beats faster than he would have without the Rock Band experience.

If you have additional reasons for the drum hate, I'm interested in hearing them.

[Sinewav]

I really don't see why some people are so bitter about Guitar Hero. GH is a game. People play it to have fun. I've never met anyone that claimed that their GH skills translated over to the music realm. Playing guitar hero and playing actual guitar (and music in general) are two different skills and should be treated as such. Whether or not someone plays music is inconsequential for GH and vice versa. Perhaps the two are related; it seems like a distinct possibility, but I really don't know. The point I'm trying to make is that just because someone is amazing at GH doesn't mean they'll be an asshole who thinks they can actually play guitar.

I totally agree. I get sick of hearing musicians bitch and moan about people who play the game (no, not the one that I just lost). I've never seen anyone brag about what a great musician they were because of Guitar Hero or Rock Band. If anything, the games probably cut down on the number of people took two guitar lessons and think they're the shit because they can bang out all 4 chords of a Green Day song.

TROLL HARDER

TROLL HARD 3: TROLL HARD WITH A VENGEANCE

[Sixto]

I hate Guitar Hero. I suck so bad at it.

[SenPi]

So the existence of a similar, superior simulation of drums that exists only in another country negates anything good that can be said about Rock Band's drums? Please.

From what I've seen of DrumMania, it's clearly the better simulation of a real drum set, but that doesn't mean Rock Band's drums aren't also a solid translation from the real thing. And I don't see what about the placement of the snare and hats matters. No one ever said playing Rock Band drums is the exact same as playing real drums. It's not. But many of the rhythmic skills fundamental to succeeding in Rock Band translate very easily to real drums. If you sit a Rock Band enthusiast down at a real kit, he won't feel right at home. But give him a few minutes and he'll be able to bang out some basic beats faster than he would have without the Rock Band experience.

If you have additional reasons for the drum hate, I'm interested in hearing them.

Heh, sorry my post was taken the wrong way.

I dont have drum hate, I have a set of Yamaha DTXIVSP myself. I just find it tiring to hear so much about rockband, but never ever about drummania.

heh, sorry if it sounded hateish

[sephfire]

No problem. I would be ALL OVER a game like DrumMania if it were released in the states. I've heard about some third parties making more realistic drum peripherals for Rock Band and I anxiously await the release of these products.

Here's on prototype I saw. I hear the pads are quieter. I'd still love to see a hi-hat pad in there, but all the same: YES PLEASE.

[starla]

Holy amazing, Batman

[Dhsu]

No problem. I would be ALL OVER a game like DrumMania if it were released in the states. I've heard about some third parties making more realistic drum peripherals for Rock Band and I anxiously await the release of these products.

If you have an electronic drumkit, you can use it to play DTXMania.

[SenPi]

If you have an electronic drumkit, you can use it to play DTXMania.

You can also use an electonic drumkit (I think only yamahas work with this), to play drummania on the ps2 (assuming you have a modded ps2 to play uhh.. imports yea).

This is how I play beatmania. Basically you need a UX16 MIDI to USB interface, connect the midi to the electric drumset, and connect the usb to the ps2's usb port and off you go. Its very nice .

heres me playing a song on my ps2 with my Yamaha DTXIVSP (though you cant really see the drums )

Anyways, you can just take this as a representation of how drummania is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0mfXqRo9SA

[RealFolkBlues]

So pretty much everything important has already been said at least once here, but there were a couple things in the article itself which stuck out as not quite correct.

First, you mention the IDEA of a Piano Hero. Behold Synthesia. Pretty cool if you ask me.

Also,

A Guitar Hero player is forced to play the entire song at the same tempo every time, where a musician can play however they want.

That's only if you never go to practice mode, my friend. Playing through tough sections at lower speeds has naturally been invaluable for me. I'm far from the best Guitar Hero player, but I'm not bad, and that has been a big help in pushing my game up. You could even make the point that this idea can then be applied to other instruments(not to mention any other skill ever.) To the beginner, as soon as you have something memorized at least partially well, it's very tempting to go full speed every time you practice. As my martial arts instructors are apt to intone: "Practice slow, learn fast. Practice fast, learn nothing." So many intricacies are found in going slowly and then building up speed.

Eh, just a couple thoughts.