I-n-j-i-n Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Silicon Knights had free reign a bit, and yeah, Nintendo politics pretty much helped muss things up. I thought it was still a good move overall for introducing gamers to the series, but Nintendo's fingerprints were all over it since Silicon Knights was a part of Nintendo's development teams back then. I still blame Silicon Knights mostly though. Basically, any time Kojima doesn't help make the game (or one of his closest Metal Gear developers like Shinta Nojiri), the exact feel of the game can't be converted perfectly. I really hope if and when they decide to port MGS4 for the 360/PC, we won't see all of this unnecessary drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 From what I know, Kojima had very little to do with the project. Nintendo and Konami apparently had to beg him just to get his blessings for a remake, but the development wasn't done by his team at all.He may or may not have done some production work on it, but he most certainly wasn't directing it. Also, he wasn't the one directing the cutscenes, which is where the main problem lies. But certainly he had some amount of oversight. If he wasn't happy with how Kitamura portrayed his characters, he would've said something. Besides, good characterization can't be argued with "who are you to tell a person what to do!" It's not like an author can create a character, develop that character, give him a set of traits, but then change those traits without any sort of plot development leading up to it. Or if you're a video game designer and decide to retcon up the wazoo, then you're put in the inconvenient place of explaining why the loss of those traits occurs later. Disregarding it doesn't suddenly fix it. Either way that's a huge faux pas in writing and isn't really me arbitrarily "getting off" telling Kojima who or what his character should be. Eh, retcons and inconsistencies in games happen all the time, with the explanations left to the imaginations of the fans. I've seen people go so far as to argue that Link is ambidextrous because he changes his sword hand every time he turns around in the original Zelda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-n-j-i-n Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I don't think you can call it a retcon when it's an outside company with loose connections redoing a game. Badly. Also, I wish Kojima just flatout said the game is not canon because it simply can't be with all its extra stuff padded upon it for no reason. Other than how the script in Twin Snakes is supposedly a bit more loyal to Kojima's than the slightly revised MGS, I still think the original was the definitive version. Taking out a few violent (not the silly kung fu action) scenes, even, I can't understand that at all if other than the Nintendo conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I HEARD it was mostly coincidental and the whole thing on plagiarism was a practical joke.Without giving away too much, the theme IS in MGS4 towards the end. I am however unaware if it was removed from the Essential Collection or not. Really? Not from what I recall. The Metal Gear theme used in MGS4 is the one used from MGS3 and NOT the one from MGS1 and 2. It's similiar, but definitely not the same... Unless there's another instance that I missed, but THIS is the only time I even ever heard THAT song in MGS4. Also: They use the PSX version of the Encounter music in MGS4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollgagh Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Also:They use the PSX version of the Encounter music in MGS4. awesome in a barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global-Trance Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Really? Not from what I recall. The Metal Gear theme used in MGS4 is the one used from MGS3 and NOT the one from MGS1 and 2. It's similiar, but definitely not the same...Unless there's another instance that I missed, but THIS is the only time I even ever heard THAT song in MGS4. I was also referring to the version which used the acoustic guitar and the trumpets... but I guess according to the soundtrack it's part of that one time it's played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Or if you're a video game designer and decide to retcon up the wazoo, then you're put in the inconvenient place of explaining why the loss of those traits occurs later. Snake got old. Why is it this hard to grasp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrotic Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Snake got old.Why is it this hard to grasp? Yeah, I knew that was coming, but I avoided it because it's an MGS4 spoiler for me to have to explain it. Since you want to go that route: [MGS4 spoiler]The rapid aging process doesn't begin until about 6-7 years after Sons of Liberty, and MGS2 takes place only 2 years after the first game. But certainly he had some amount of oversight. If he wasn't happy with how Kitamura portrayed his characters, he would've said something.Eh, retcons and inconsistencies in games happen all the time, with the explanations left to the imaginations of the fans. I've seen people go so far as to argue that Link is ambidextrous because he changes his sword hand every time he turns around in the original Zelda. Well, it's difficult to say just how much oversight Kojima ended up having for the both of us, isn't it? It's just as easy for you to say MGS is Kojima's baby and that he must have had some oversight as it is for me to say that because there are glaring flaws in the direction of the game, he must clearly not have been as interested as he was in his own productions. As for retcons, going to those heights is ridiculous, but not only is Link not really a very well-developed character, but the plots he usually takes part in are completely independent from each other. If this was a case of jumbled plotitis then I'd be like, "Oh, who gives a fuck." But it's not, so I end up going, "Why the fuck is Snake kicking rockets?" If you don't want to read the spoiler tags, then just trust me on this one: an age difference of two years between the first two games isn't going to suddenly break his ability to pull those stunts. Your argument still doesn't work, and Twin Snakes is still just as flawed in this regard as it was yesterday. So you're still wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Ah, but you have no idea what happens after he points to his bandanna and says "Infinite ammo." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 ...Or why Otacon developed Stealth camo, that broke in MGS2, but implemented similar technology into Metal Gear Mk II...but not Snake's suit... I CAN MAKE COMPLEX CAMO THAT TAKES THE COLOR AND TEXTURE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS! I CAN MAKE SOPHISTICATED AIS AND ROBOTS! I CAN MAKE ADVANCE EYE PATCHES AND SHIZZ. oh but I forgot how to make the most helpful piece of equipment I ever developed...only for you, though. Not for me. I still have it. Oh, and Otacon can control that thing remotely from a fricken AIRPLANE, but snake only gets like 30'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Author Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 He was attacked by the armor devourer that has plagued Megaman, Metroid, and any games where the protagonist loses gear and abilities between games. That or you accept the inherent nature of videogames needing a "reset" of a character's ability between games. They can make it plot relevant (End of Metroid Prime 1 and beginning of Metriod Prime 2, or just skip over it, but it's part of the nature of videogames when characters need to lose these abilities.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Yeah, I knew that was coming, but I avoided it because it's an MGS4 spoiler for me to have to explain it.Since you want to go that route: [MGS4 spoiler]The rapid aging process doesn't begin until about 6-7 years after Sons of Liberty, and MGS2 takes place only 2 years after the first game. Snake had to take a nap after a run in with Vamp in MGS2, so I refute your statement that two years isn't enough to degrade his acrobatics. And while we're on the subject, how many combat-oriented cutscenes did you see Snake in Sons of Liberty, exactly? You were around him for about a third of the game, if that. Ray didn't exactly give him much of an opportunity to do much. SPOILERZLOL This doesn't have anything to do with MGS4's progression of Snake's Werner's Syndrome. If you'll recall, people tell Snake at regular intervals that he's not aging well and looks old. He's aging at a constant rate, and I'd wager that those two years are enough to keep Snake from wanting to jump off of any more missiles. Werner's syndrome didn't just decide to kick in a couple years after Sons of Liberty. He's been getting older the whole time.[/sPOILOLERZ] Let's face it, over-the-top action is a part of the MGS franchise. Let's not forget that EVA does a Goddamn BACKFLIP with her motorcycle in MGS3. If you don't want to read the spoiler tags, then just trust me on this one: an age difference of two years between the first two games isn't going to suddenly break his ability to pull those stunts. Your argument still doesn't work, and Twin Snakes is still just as flawed in this regard as it was yesterday. So you're still wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrotic Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Ah, but you have no idea what happens after he points to his bandanna and says "Infinite ammo." Touche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global-Trance Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Let's not forget that EVA does a Goddamn BACKFLIP with her motorcycle in MGS3. Off Ocelot's face, might I add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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